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joe_madeup
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 92
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 Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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It certainly seems that Kerry has released "all" of his records, to 3 very friendly reporters.
Suppose that's all of his records that are ever going to be found or released. Either because the 3 reporters are now saying "Nothing to see here, folks"....or because Kerry had other friends scrub the records in previous years but we'll never prove it....or because damning originals simply got lost in the mists of time....or because, for whatever reason, there never were any damning originals.
Where does that leave the SVPfT? |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Essayons wrote: | “The journalists who reviewed the records the Navy released said there was no indication of any discharge beyond the honorable one Mr. Kerry received in 1978.”
<snip>
Does the use of the “beyond” mean “after’ or could it mean “except?” “Except” would be as equally incorrect as “other.” If the inference of the word “beyond” is indeed “after”, then it is indeed a cover for the years beyond 1978 and therefore does not tell us anything about before 1978. A nuance? |
The referenced quote was a paraphrase attributed by Gerstein to the recipient journalists. While you are correct in looking at the dots of the i's and the crossing of the t's, I can't imagine Gerstein wanting to mislead by the use of a carefully chosen word. |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| joe_madeup wrote: |
Where does that leave the SVPfT? |
It leaves the SVPT and all of us (save 3 selected news organizations) without access to Kerry's military records...the purpose of this exercise to begin with. |
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joe_madeup
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| I get it. Bush eventually showed all his Guard service records to the public or any news organization that wanted to see them - right? But Kerry still hasn't. We've seen the SF-180; but we haven't seen any of the records. We have to "trust" the 3 friendly (or careless) reporters when they tell us "Nothing to see here, folks." And 90% of the MSM and the average TV viewer will do exactly that. Thus, Kerry wraps himself in an implicit seal of approval from these major MSM papers. That's the ploy. |
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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I have a question--> I don't know if it would mean anything but, is there some way someone could find out how many times Kerry has released his records throughout the years and to whom they were released to? I don't know if it would matter, but just a thought. |
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MarineBrat
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 144
Location: Right edge of the loony left coast.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Weren't there "100 or so" pages that were said to still be held somewhere?
_________________
God Bless Our Veterans Of The USA! Thank you for your service!
If you can read, thank a teacher. If you can read in English, thank a Veteran! |
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Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| MarineBrat wrote: | | Weren't there "100 or so" pages that were said to still be held somewhere? |
MB
Right you are, and we also can be sure that this is only the records held by the Navy, not the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis. Further, depending on how often he 'carried' his own records in transit, even the NPRC may be missing some records.
Bottom line, the whole records shenanigans is just a smokescreen to cover the 'missing' character of this Anti-American, Hanoi John...and give the lame stream media a chance to pander to another senator while dickie durbin spreads his dirt. Is there any character reference left in the Senate today???? I have yet to see one!
Deuce
Disenfranchised Florida Voter....Martinez-RINO, Nelson-D
Deuce |
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SBD
Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:18 am Post subject: |
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There was a shift in Military Law during this time period and the shift went to the Judiciary rather than the Military. The FOIA was passed and the courts were filled with all kinds of lawsuits that were trying to use frivolous lawsuits to gain access to documents. This led to privacy concerns, and as a result, laws were passed that would protect the "so called" innocent from having negative items held against them that were proven to be wrong or illegal.
This same time period saw the rise of the "class action" lawsuit that would use an organization to file suit on behalf of others similarly situated. I believe Kerry was part of one of these lawsuits and as a result, his record was espunged.
| Quote: | Court is also of the opinion that this action, which has been pending for more than three years, should not be further delayed pending a ruling by our Court of Appeals in Baxter v. Claytor.
Plaintiffs also seek certification of this case as a class action on behalf of former servicemembers with less than fully honorable discharges, so characterized when they were administratively separated from the service because of their conduct as inactive reservists and who were either discharged on or after April 20, 1971, or whose cases on review were
decided on or after April 20, 1971. The class certification requirements of Rule 23(a) and (b)(2), Fed.R.Civ.P. have been satisfied and the motion seeking certification should be granted. |
Notice the date chosen is two days before Kerry's traitor speech!!
More info at this thread
http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19757
SBD |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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The following was reported on June 10 in the NY Sun and posted yesterday in Powerline. While no name is mentioned, it appears to reference the JAG Officer (whose name escapes me at the moment) that made some observations on the question of Kerry's discharge.
While it doesn't appear to directly contradict prior observations, it does acknowledge the "possibility" of administrative error in explaining an apparent delay in Kerry's discharge. (emphasis mine)
| Quote: | OFFICIAL: KERRY’S RECORDS SENT TO THE NAVY A top official at the national repository for military personnel files confirmed yesterday that the full record of the Navy service of Senator Kerry, a Democrat of Massachusetts, was sent to the Navy to prepare responses to requests from Mr. Kerry and others for his service history. “We have sent the original file to the Navy,” the director of archival programs at the National Personnel Records Center, Bryan McGraw, said in an interview yesterday.The statement from the St. Louis-based center, which is part of the National Archives and Records Administration, undercuts claims by critics of the senator that he effectively withheld part of the file from news organizations.
Some critics of Mr. Kerry, who ran unsuccessfully for president last year, complained that privacy waivers he signed recently for selected news organizations were directed to the Navy Personnel Command in Millington, Tenn., which does not usually maintain detailed records on retired service members. However, Mr. McGraw said that is precisely where the original file was sent, though a copy was kept in St. Louis.“The request came from the Navy commander in Millington.The Navy has everything we have.They have had for some time,” Mr. McGraw said. He said Mr. Kerry’s record was sent to the Navy last year, well before the presidential election. Separately, a former Navy lawyer who raised questions about Mr. Kerry’s discharge said yesterday that an unexplained delay in Mr. Kerry’s separation from the service could have been the result of an administrative foul-up.”
— Staff Reporter of the Sun
NY Sun |
hattip: Powerline and "John Boyle" |
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Navy wife
Research Director
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 353
Location: Arlington, VA & Ft. Worth, TX
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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OK folks, I will buy an admin error; however, I STILL want to see an actual piece of paper that says "honorably discharged." Have I missed it somewhere? I also want to know the number of documents that St. Louis sent to Tennessee. If everything was released, then what was the number of documents received by the AP reporter? The numbers should match, shouldn't they???
That's my 2 cents! |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Navy Wife...
Just to reiterate, he offers a "possibility", not a "probability". I wouldn't "buy" into that just yet  |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| joe_madeup wrote: | | I get it. Bush eventually showed all his Guard service records to the public or any news organization that wanted to see them - right? But Kerry still hasn't. We've seen the SF-180; but we haven't seen any of the records. We have to "trust" the 3 friendly (or careless) reporters when they tell us "Nothing to see here, folks." |
Was one of them Dan Rather?
-- FDL
_________________
"Millions For Defense, Not One Cent For Tribute" - Thomas Jefferson on paying ransom to Muslim corsairs (pirates). |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Can someone please ask Jimmah Cah-teh point blank if he pardoned JFKerry?
-- FDL
_________________
"Millions For Defense, Not One Cent For Tribute" - Thomas Jefferson on paying ransom to Muslim corsairs (pirates). |
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