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Bill Faith
Ensign
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 70
Location: Lawrenceville, IL, USA
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 Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:12 am Post subject: Is it time for a "Million Veterans March"? |
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This is posted at http://smalltownveteran.typepad.com/posts/2005/06/is_it_time_for_.html
| Quote: | Is it time for a "Million Veterans March"?
E-friends Rurik (whom you met here) and TACAN (who doesn't go public very often) have kindly agreed to allow me to post an email exchange they had yesterday. It began when TACAN sent Rurik a link to this American Thinker post:
| Quote: | An Open Letter to the President
June 27th, 2005
Dear Mr. President,
I’ve no idea what your advisers are telling you, but based on my own experience in Washington I suspect they are talking more bluntly among themselves than they are to you. So I’m writing to deliver an unpleasant message you must hear, and hear now: We are in danger of losing the war in Iraq.
To understand why, think back for a moment to what happened in Vietnam. Even as our troops did better and better on the ground – as they killed more and more North Vietnamese and Viet Cong soldiers and secured more and more of South Vietnam itself – support for that war eroded here at home. For example, the Tet offensive was a huge military victory for our forces – but a decisive political defeat in the US. Simply put, we didn’t lose the Vietnam war in Vietnam. We lost it in Washington.
[...]
In war, public support is the equivalent of cash flow. So the question isn’t whether a war is going well, but whether a war is going well enough, and fast enough, to end in victory before public support gives out. And it’s obvious that public support for the war in Iraq has begun to erode, which means that from now on we are not only in a battle against our enemy overseas, but in a race against time here at home.
I don’t know how much time is left before public support for this war erodes to the point when victory will lie beyond our grasp. ...
You have less time to win this war than you thought you had. So to win, you will need to fight harder.
[...]
First, you need to fight harder in Iraq. You keep saying that you are giving our generals all the troops they want. With all respect, sir, this couldn’t possibly be true. In the history of the world there has never been a general who thought he had enough troops. If your generals are telling you they have all the troops they want to finish the job in Iraq, either the generals are idiots – or they have gotten the word that asking for more troops will end their careers. ... One way or another, put enough troops on the ground in Iraq to secure that country -- fast. And while you’re at it, give the orders to either take out the governments of Syria and Iran or to hit them with so much force that they quit playing footsie with al Queda and the Baathists, because we cannot win in Iraq so long as Syria and Iran are providing support and sanctuary. In short, do whatever is necessary, and do it now.
Second – and in my judgment, even more important -- you need to fight harder in Washington. To explain why this will help win the war in Iraq, let me tell you about how one of your predecessors acted domestically in a way that had a huge foreign impact. Shortly after President Reagan took office, ...
[...]
With all respect, sir, your performance in Washington has been too weak. ....
[...]
Forget all the super-sophisticated, geo-political baloney. War is a very personal business. Look, when you send a platoon of soldiers or Marines out on patrol in Baghdad, or Tikrit, or Fallujah, you don’t expect that second lieutenant to come back to base and report that he reached a “compromise” with the terrorists; that they agreed our guys would kill or capture no more than five of their guys, but in return our own casualties would be light, or that the second lieutenant decided not to engage the enemy because he thought it best to save himself and his platoon for whatever the next battle might be. You expect that young officer to engage the enemy, kill them all – or go down shooting.
Well, so should you. You need to start fighting in Washington just as hard as you expect our troops to fight in Iraq. And you need to keep fighting until the Potomac flows red with the blood of your political enemies. ....
The war is now entering its most dangerous phase, by which I mean that period of time during which we will either secure our victory or lose so much public support that our defeat becomes inevitable. The outcome will be determined by the decisions you make – both foreign and domestic – in the coming weeks.
God bless you, sir, for all you have done to keep us safe. Now, go get ‘em.
Respectfully,
Herbert E. Meyer
Herbert E. Meyer served during the Reagan Administration as Special Assistant to the Director of Central Intelligence and Vice Chairman of the CIA’s National Intelligence Council. His DVD on The Siege of Western Civilization (www.siegeofwesternciv.com) has become an international best-seller.
[Click here to read the whole letter. Please. This man makes some very good points.] |
Rurik responded:
| Quote: | Throughout the cold war the Democrats and Liberals insisted that we had no enemies, that it was all just a big misunderstanding which we could resolve by being nicer and proving we meant them no harm. The Republicans and conservatives had the sense to see that there were real enemies out there who meant us ill and would take our attempts at friendship as either weakness or guile.
Now - no not just now, but for the past 17 years actually, Republicans and conservatives have tried to apply this same fatuous and failed approach to domestic policy and competition. And its been getting worse. |
TACAN replied to Rurik:
| Quote: | Hi [Rurik] - I agree. I've been in heavy discussion with a couple other guys. It is not an encouraging picture. Somehow, we need to educate the people who don't care to be educated - i.e. the American public. Here's a thought I shared with the other guys. Don't know if there's any merit or not.:
"We have to begin with the education of the people. There are two aspects: short-term and long-term. Short term, I wonder - - - what if, for example, thousands, hundreds of thousands of old vets and others would march in DC on Veterans Day in support of our troops and our national objectives in the Global War on Terror Everyone wearing vet accoutrements and medals. I don't have a clue how to get something like that together, but it would surely be awesome and hard for the old, lame media to ignore. Parade permits, police permits, porta-potties, media coverage, logistics, security, etc., etc. It would be a hell of an organizational nightmare. If the VVAW could do it back in the 70s, we could do it now. Just a thought." |
Rurik replied to TACAN, and copied me:
| Quote: | IMHO a most powerful suggestion. A first step might be to spread this suggestion as widely as possible, to your e-mail correspondents, to the on-line discussion fora, to blogs, etc. Perhaps go fishing and admit that you don't know beans about setting up the logistics for such a thing and request the services of some experienced people in Washington - this is going to have to be set up locally anyhow.
I will be posting your suggestion to a private forum later today, and also to the Swiftees [http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/, where I met Rurik and TACAN -- BF] - unless you beat me to it, and I will try to identify and find other people - talk-show hosts, etc.
I also don't know how to start a national grass-roots movement - but agitating is one one thing that can help.
And if you/we/our friends succeed in setting this up, I WILL be there, even if I have to pawn my mother for bus fare.
One more note - I'm not sure that the American public doesn't want to be educated. I think most of them already know, but have been atomized and isolated, and are being steamrollered over one by one. They need a standard to rally around and then counterattack. Remember the huge Hard Hat march down 5th Avenue during the Vietnam War? We need an organizing genius to advise and educate us.
[Rurik] |
Rurik, TACAN: I'll do everything I can to support your worthy cause. I guess we can consider this blog post part of Rurik's fishing expedition and hope it reaches someone who has some ideas on how to get something like this organized. How do y'all feel about the name "Million Veterans March?" (Is "Operation Dewey Mountain 05" too cutesy?) If we can't educate the whole public (Sometimes you lead the horse to water and he refuses to pull his head out of his ass) maybe it will be enough just to show some wishy-washy politicians that there's still major public support for doing the right thing, whether the Kerry/Boxer/Moore fringe likes it or not.
Fellow Viet Nam vets: We lost a war because while we were away winning military victories the peaceniks took to the streets back in The World and stabbed us in the back. Are we going to let that happen to our brave men and women in Iraq? Will you answer the call one more time?
GWOT vets: I won't say "You saw what happened to us" because most of you weren't even around back then, but I'm sure most of you know what happened. Will you join forces with a few hundred thousand old men to keep it from happening to you?
This doesn't have to be just a veterans' effort, folks. Will the rest of you join us in keeping this nation from repeating a tragic mistake? |
OK, gang. I think TACAN had and excellent idea. What we need now is some help figuring out how to get it organized. Your advice will be more than welcome! Who's with us? Where do we go from here?
_________________
Bill Faith
bill.faith@gmail.com
http://smalltownveteran.typepad.com/
USAF 1970-1974
Viet Nam 1971-1972 |
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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
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manelly
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 294
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:43 am Post subject: |
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  WOW Guys
That would be AWSOME 
_________________
Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day.
- Thomas Jefferson |
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Bill Faith
Ensign
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 70
Location: Lawrenceville, IL, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:13 am Post subject: |
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No, I hadn't thought of them and didn't even realize they had a site. Thank you for the tip!
I knew posting things here wouldn't be a waste of time. This forum is where I "e-met" the two guys who came up with the idea that maybe it's our turn to march since we were otherwise occupied back in the '60's.
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Bill Faith
bill.faith@gmail.com
http://smalltownveteran.typepad.com/
USAF 1970-1974
Viet Nam 1971-1972 |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hi-ya Bill! Great points made there, thanks for sharing them.
I think the 'march' is a great idea - the big obstacle I can see is getting the MSM to cover it correctly, or even cover it at all. |
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GM Strong
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Penna
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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I would not worry about them MSM. Give them no consideration, but if they decide to come invite them along. If successful, it would be hard to ignore. The "New Media" would pretty much drive the MSM to have to do something right. Promise Keepers got 1 Million. It was Poo-Pooed, but could not be ignored.
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8th Army Korea 68-69 |
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Rurik
PO3
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 251
Location: Daschle-cleansed Free South Dakota
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Rurik has been "away"   , but he's returned .
I've contacted the Rolling Thunder people, and here's the skinny.
This will not happen this November.  I was advised that planning such an event requires at least a year's lead time. It also requires beaucoup piastres. And professional planning. 
I cannot do this on my own. Not even with TACAN and Bill Faith and the fearsome power of Aristotle the Hun.
Now the uplifting conclusion. This could happen by next July, the 230th Anniversary of Independence. A fine time for Vets to march in support of the active forces. And though I'm not talented enough to organize this and make it happen, I'm willing to walk point, carry the guideon, or even march in the ranks, if I can find the smart people to guide me and OJT me, and some sponsors to help with the other aspects.
So if any of you are power people, or know the power people, that would be a great place to help at the start. And the rest of us, had best be prepared to help out for the next year... and maybe to march in July 06.
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Hating John Kerry continuously since 1971.
Essayons!
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Perhaps Larry Bailey of KerryLied.com might give you some direction? |
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baldeagle
PO2
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 362
Location: Grand Saline, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:09 am Post subject: |
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I don't wish to rain on anyone's parade, but, I think you may be "misunderestimating" the Commander-in-Chief and his Generals on the ground in Iraq.
They can't come out, publically, with their long range strategy plans for the area, (wouldn't be diplomatic or smart, but a reader sent this take on the situation in Iraq in to the folks at WSJ's "Best of the Web Today, and it makes sense to me, though I will admit to not being a General or a diplomat, so I may be wrong. That said, I still believe that they know better than me how to run things over there.
My .02 worth
Awww shoot, too quick on the trigger!...
meant to include this;
| Quote: | I think the operative statements are the ones along line of "we'll fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here." Bush is in a tight spot and can't really say, "Listen, we're going to continue to allow the foreign fighters into Iraq. Yup, it makes bad headlines and nasty footage, but that's the way it's going to be for a while. We know how strong they are and they aren't strong enough to derail the effort. We're going to keep letting them come to Iraq to stir the pot so that our military can kill them. Don't worry, America, if they get too big or too strong, we'll snap the borders shut."
Isn't that a real possibility? We have to allow them to come to Iraq because we can't go into other countries to kill them. And until they arm up and come after us, it's tough to identify Joe Jihadi. I was all for closing the damned borders over there (and over here for that matter), but I think there's a method to the madness. The guys who make the trek to Iraq to fight us are dangerous (obviously), and in the absence of the US in Iraq, they would not be peacefully selling bric-a-brac in the local bazaar. We're saving them the cost of a very expensive one-way ticket to the U.S. or Europe by setting up shop in their neck of the woods.
And I think we get a double bonus out of this too. (When the time comes to make an issue of this, it's a good reason to drop the hammer on Mr. Assad or the fine mullahs in Iran.
Just a thought. But if it's true, it's just about impossible for the administration to admit it, isn't it? But if you take the theory as an assumption, then the "inability" to secure Iraq's borders and Bush's lack of threatening the regimes in question makes more sense.
Let's hope. |
http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110006892
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"In a word, I want an American character, that the powers of Europe may be convinced we act for ourselves and not for others; this, in my judgment, is the only way to be respected abroad and happy at home." --George Washington |
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GM Strong
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Penna
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Pick a date, work for it, It will happen. The support is there. Count me in.
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8th Army Korea 68-69 |
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1991932
Lance Corporal
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 381
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:52 am Post subject: |
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Me, too
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Former "War Criminal" |
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Rurik
PO3
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 251
Location: Daschle-cleansed Free South Dakota
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the latest update from one of the instigators.
Very early we learned the idea of a grand demonstration in Washingon this November 11 is totally unrealistic becuase such a project takes a year to organize, but other options look about as good, and local demonstrations of support should be practical by that time frame.
There has been continuing private discussions between myself, TACAN, Bill Faith and our other accomplices.
A small core have organized and pledged ourselves to make this happen. Though not deliberately timed, the final decision to organize was agreed on July 4, an auspicious date.
Our founding core consists of seven members, six of us veterans, both of the military and of this forum, and the seventh, a soldier briefly home from Iraq on leave.
At this moment we are investigating issues such as funding, incorporatation, and other legal necessities, a website, and crafting formal mission statements, titles etc.
Unofficially, this is what we're aiming for. A series of local demonstrations in support of the troops on Novermber 11, in as many cities and towns as can be contacted and arranged. These demonstrations should be publicized on local media, and there will be attempts made to alert the national media that these independent grass-roots demonstrations are all related and part of a larger movement. Most of this will have to be done by independent local activists, inspired by the efforts of our group and of others. As a network organizes and spreads, there should be further local demonstrations in support of the troops.
Meanwile, we will continue to organize and plan for the climactic national event, a mass rally in support of the troops from across the nation in Washington next July 4. Beyond that will depend on our success and the course of the war, on how our organization and abilities grow and improve, and on what will remain to be done.
I think we're pretty awed by what we have agreed to do, but we are committed, and we know it can be done. We also know the support is out there, and though we don't want to use the "million-man" label, I will not be surprised if a national demonstration succeeds in approaching that milepost.
We know that we will be able to count on much support, assistance, and participation from our old friends from this forum.
This is all nebulous as of today...but we're going forward,and I suggest you keep your schedules open.
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Hating John Kerry continuously since 1971.
Essayons!
Fight Build and Destroy |
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Bill Faith
Ensign
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 70
Location: Lawrenceville, IL, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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On a related note ... Can anyone tell me how to start a new thread on the Free Republic site? I can log in and reply to things already there but I can't seem to figure out how to start a new thread to see if I can drum up some Freeper support for our effort.
Thanks.
_________________
Bill Faith
bill.faith@gmail.com
http://smalltownveteran.typepad.com/
USAF 1970-1974
Viet Nam 1971-1972 |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill...hit the "post" hyperlink at right/top of page. |
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Bill Faith
Ensign
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 70
Location: Lawrenceville, IL, USA
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