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kate
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Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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 Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:21 am Post subject: |
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from the opening post re Kerry's possible early contacts with Dellinger
| Quote: | John Kerry crossed paths with this New Mobilization Committee in the fall of 1969
see Beatrice1000’s thread
kerry's trail <Navy/VVAW - his words & deeds
** PART 2 **
…..Oct. 15, 1969: kerry attends the Moratorium March on WDC, reported by sister Peggy |
The New Mobilization Committee followed up with another Moratorium March a month later Nov 15, 1969. Was Kerry on hand for that? Did he have yet another opportunity to cross paths with Dellinger?
One point of interest was that that Judy Droz, the widow of Don Droz had a special role in that November 1969 March on Wash D.C
(Don Droz had been on several missions with Kerry in Vietnam, he died April 12, 1969, a month after Kerry left)
Kerrysaid that the losses of Droz, and his friend Dick Pershing were severe emotional blows that would later influence his opposition to the war.
Snips about the November 1969 March
| Quote: | BBC
More Protest
On 15 October, 1969, the 'Moratorium' peace demonstration was held in Washington and other US cities. Millions of Americans, throughout the country, participated.
One month after the 'Moratorium', on 15 November, 1969, the 'Mobilization' peace demonstration in Washington DC had a crowd estimated at from 250,000 to 500,000. This event remains the largest single anti-war protest in US history.
That day's demonstration came immediately after the completion of a 40-hour 'March Against Death', in which 40,000 individuals filed past the White House, each bearing the name of a United States soldier who had died in Vietnam.
<snip>
The organisers of this demonstration had received praise from Pham Van Dong, Prime Minister of North Vietnam. In a letter to the organisers, Dong said '... may your fall offensive succeed splendidly'. This was the first time that the government of North Vietnam publicly acknowledged the American anti-war movement. Dong's comments enraged American conservatives, including Vice President Spiro Agnew. Agnew labelled the protesters 'Communist dupes comprised of an effete corps of impudent snobs who characterise themselves as intellectuals.' |
| Quote: | Source
250,000 War Protesters Stage Peaceful Rally in Washington;
Militants Stir Clashes Later
By JOHN HERBERS Special to The New York Times
WASHINGTON, Nov. 15
Overall, it was a mass gathering of the moderate and radical Left, including the 100 organizations that make up the New Mobilization Committee to End the War in Vietnam, sponsor of the demonstrations; old style liberals; Communists and pacifists and a sprinkling of the violent New Left. |
What was Judy Droz’ role that day?
| Quote: | November 15th, 1969
More than 400,000 anti-Vietnam War protesters rally in front of the White House to conclude the March Against Death. The march began two days ago in darkness and near-freezing temperatures near the gates of Arlington National Cemetery in Virginia. About 1,200 protesters crossed the Arlington Memorial Bridge every hour and then walked four miles to the White House. Each marcher carried a candle and a placard that named a soldier killed in Vietnam.
As they reached the White House, they paused to say aloud the name of their soldier. Then the protesters headed for Capitol Hill, where they put their placards in 40 coffins. All told, 45,000 marched through the two cold, stormy nights. The first marcher was Judy Droz, a 23-year-old mother whose husband died in Vietnam this April. |
Of 45,000 marchers, representing the those who had died in Vietnam (and with all due respect) is it just a mere coincidence that Judy Droz was first.
Or, was she connected to the movement or organizers in some manner? She had been at protests before. In 1968 she had joined anti-war protesters at the Chicago
Convention, demonstrating for Eugene McCarthy while her husband was fighting in Vietnam.)
Known is….
…..Dellinger was Coordinator & major player in the Moratoriums in Oct & Nov 1969 in W/DC
…..that Kerry was at the October 1969 Moratorium in W/DC
…..that the widow of his friend Don Droz was at the Nov 1969 Moratorium in W/DC
.....in a role prominent enough to be mentioned in the news
Questions……
…..who placed Judy Droz in prominent role as the 1st marcher in naming the dead in the Nov 1969 rally
..…was Kerry there in Nov 1969, did he have a part in Judy Droz’s role
…..was he connected to fellow traveler Dellinger at that point, or Abe Feinglass
More on Dellinger, Kerry, Feinglass, and their fellow travelers in this thread> Did The KGB use John Kerry
Long read, but enlightening.
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wpage
Lieutenant
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Partially off topic. Admin please move or delete if appropriate.
Wonder if we will find some of the same people at the Rally scheduled for Sept. 22-24th in D.C.?
| Quote: | | http://www.newdemocracyrising.com/doc/peacetrain.pdf |
I Live in Louisiana and I'm embarrassed and angered by this "Peace Train" originating in New Orleans. Especially while we have so many of the LA. National Guard in Iraq. If I were you, I'd boycott New Orleans. They have pretty much turned it into an anarchist city. The DA doesn't prosecute a lot of murders and fires most anybody not of his same race.
I am believing that Aruba has a better justice system than N.O. |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| wpage wrote: | Partially off topic. Admin please move or delete if appropriate.
Wonder if we will find some of the same people at the Rally scheduled for Sept. 22-24th in D.C.?
| Quote: | | http://www.newdemocracyrising.com/doc/peacetrain.pdf |
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Yes, it is off topic -- but it is the same problem -- part of the legacy of kerry and his minions.
Sounds like you’ve got quite a nest down there! The PROTEST WARRIORS have some Louisiana chapters … check it out. Maybe the juvenile, pea-brained “peace train” could stand a little “send off” ….. |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Questions……
…..who placed Judy Droz in prominent role as the 1st marcher in naming the dead in the Nov 1969 rally
..…was Kerry there in Nov 1969, did he have a part in Judy Droz’s role
…..was he connected to fellow traveler Dellinger at that point, or Abe Feinglass |
According to this article Kerry said he wasn't at the Nov'69 rally | Quote: | Kerry is a pilot, and on October 14 and 15 he flew Ted Kennedy's advisor Adam Walinsky by private plane throughout the State of New York so that Walinsky could give speeches against the Vietnam War. But Kerry was smart enough not to put down "Moratorium" on the Navy signout sheet for that Tuesday and Wednesday.
The following month, Kerry was sick and did not engage in the November moratorium activities. |
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Last edited by kate on Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:40 am Post subject: |
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WP,
Anarchist City, French City, what's the diff! 
and WP, we're all believing the same! but you still have access to the best oysters on the half shell, along with langostinos (or is it barbequed crawdads, still?) on our side of the planet! and sure helps to speak French!
Deuce
| wpage wrote: | | .....[snip] I Live in Louisiana ....boycott New Orleans. They have pretty much turned it into an anarchist city. ...I am believing that Aruba has a better justice system than N.O. |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: |
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Dellinger <> Madamn Binh <> NYC Anti-War rally April 1969
from the FBI's FOIA Reading Room http://foia.fbi.gov/
Files of Abbie Hoffman http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/hoffsum.htm
Dellinger goes to Paris in Jan 1969 to see that Madamn Binh?, then later on April 5, 1969, he plays a recorded message from her at an anti-war rally in NYC.
What Navy Lt left Vietnam in early April, and reported for dootie on April 11 in Brooklyn? Wonder what actual day in April he set foot in NYC. His sister Peggy was already living in NYC, and mixing it up with this antiwar crowd, so if skerry wasn't there, she surely reported to him what he just missed.
from part02 / pg138
| Quote: | 4/3/69
To SAC NY
From Director FBI
Concerning Dellinger, it is noted that he traveled to Paris, France on January 30, 1969, where it was later learned he had consulted with the North Vietnamese peace delegation.
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from part03 / pgs 105 - 127
| Quote: | US DOJ
FBI New York New York April 22, 1969
Bufile 62-112785
NYfile 100-165563
Peace Mobilization April 4-6, 1969
On April 5, 1969 Special Agents(SAS) of the FBI observed the the following events at the GI –Civilian - Anti War Parade and Rally, publicly announced as being sponsored by the Fifth Avenue Vietnam Peace Parade Committee (FAVPPC)
The radio program of the rally in Central Park on the afternoon of 4/5/69, as broadcast over radio station WBAI-FM ( 99.5 on the FM dial) was taped by the NYO
<snip>
David Dellinger spoke beginning at approximately 4:53pm and spoke against the war in Vietnam. He said that the “Hell NO” slogan was started by the GIs, that there had been a frame - up of Black people, that during the McCarthy period the peace movement was confused and demoralized, but that now it was no longer demoralized, that the American Government can’t wage war against the American people.
Dellinger further stated the he was with Bobby Seale in San Francisco when a call came from New York advising Seale of the arrest of the Panthers for planning to blow-up departments stores. Dellinger stated that Seale commented that the charge was ‘stupid’ as “there are people in the stores.”
Dellinger stated that since the war was lost, a lot of people were coming into the peace movement; that the GIs, the Panthers, and the National Liberation Front were welcome and needed to obtain solidarity.
Dellinger said that the United States Government had to escalate the air war since everytime they moved on the ground they were caught in a trap; that they were doing this, not to win the war, but to punish the people of Vietnam and to try and convince the American people that they would get a better deal at Paris. He said that there were only two things for the Americans to negotiate at Paris: 1) How many days needed to bring the troops home, and 2) How much to pay Vietnam for the damage done to the country, since no price could be put on the lives that were lost.
Dellinger concluded his talk by introducing an eight minute tape of “Greetings” from the number two person, a woman, on the North Vietnam negotiating team in Paris.
At approximately 5:05pm a recorded message by Mrs. Nguyen Thi Binh, identified as the representative of the South Vietnam National Liberation Front for Liberation to the Conference on Vietnam, was played. This recording was very difficult to understand because it was given with a heavy Vietnamese accent. However on April 11, 1969 a tenth source, who has furnished reliable information in the past, made available a release of this recorded talk, which is set forth as follows:
| Quote: | Dear American friends,
On behalf of South –Vietnamese patriots fighting for independence and freedom in our country, I wish to extend to you, participants in the April 5, 1969 anti-war march and rally in NewYork, my friendly greetings for solidarity.
I warmly welcome your rally, co-sponsored by the National Mobilization Committee to end the War in Vietnam and the Fifth Avenue Vietnam Peace Parade Committee, demanding that the Nixon government end the war, bring the troops home and give full freedom for black and Spanish-speaking people. I wish to welcome in particular the GIs present at this rally and to all GIs in general who have joined in ever greater numbers the anti-war movement.
The population of South-Vietnam harbours no enmity towards the American people, We only want to live in peace and freedom on the land bequeathed to us by our forefathers. We do not want that sons of the American people die needlessly in South-Vietnam, and the wealth of the American people to be squandered over there. But we have been forced to take up arms to fight back a gigantic army, involving more than one half million of GIs, sixty thousand troops of the satellite countries and more than eight hundred thousand mercenaries of the Saigon administration set up by the United States in South Vietnam, an army which uses daily most savage means of war to devastate our country and massacre our compatriots.
Faced with the setbacks it has suffered both in South and North Vietnam, the Johnson administration has been compelled to stop the bombing of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and sit together with the South-Vietnam National Front for Liberation at the four-party Conference on Vietnam in Paris. The Paris Conference on Vietnam has dragged on more than two months and a half, and a few days ago held it’s eleventh session, but contrary to the hopes of all mankind, especially those of the Vietnamese and American peoples who directly bear the terrible consequences of that cruel war, the conference has made no progress.
At the conference table, the delegate of the United States government has repeatedly stated about the American will to ‘search peace’ in South-Vietnam, but in fact, since President Nixon took office, his administration has been pursuing and even intensifying the United States war of aggression in South-Vietnam. At present, the total effectiveness of the United States, satellite and Saigon troops have been brought to some 1,500,000 men. The number of flights and the quantity of bombs dropped by B52s on heavily populated areas, resulting in mass-massacre of civilians, have increased at least by a half as compared with the previous time, with a daily average of about 1,500 tons. In towns still temporarily occupied by them, the United States and the Saigon Administration are intensifying the repression of those who are demanding independence and peace, regardless of their social belonging: students, intellectuals, Buddhists, etc..
Facts in South-Vietnam prove that the Nixon administration is still reluctant to give up its’ wicked designs to maintain at any cost the warlike and rotten Thieu-Ky-Houng administration in order to realize its ambition of dominating our country. Recently the United States government has stated many times about the need of so-called “private talks”, as if that is the key for a solution to the Vietnam problem. Acting on orders from the United States, the head of the Saigon administration Nguyen-van-Thieu has voiced his demand for private talks with the NLF. But at the same time, he declared his “opposition to the withdrawal of the United States forces from South Vietnam” and demanded the dissolution of the NLF.
It is obvious that this is not a serious proposal, but a mere trick of the Nixon administration, aimed at covering up its policy of war intensification in South-Vietnam and coping with public opinion in the United States and in the world, which is urging for an end to the war. The important problem does not lie in the way the talks may be held, privately or in plenary session, but in whether the United States government is willing to settle peacefully the South-Vietnamese problem, on the basis of the respect of the fundamental national rights of the Vietnamese people or not.
The south-Vietnam National Front for Liberation has come to the Paris Conference with a serious attitude and the goodwill to find a political solution to the South-Vietnam problem, which would bring real independence and freedom to our people. The key problem is that the United States must totally and unconditionally withdraw its own troops as well as those of its satellites from South-Vietnam. This is a legitimate demand, fully consistent with right and morals, with the interests of the Vietnamese and the American peoples.
If the Nixon administration really wants to end the war in Vietnam, we are ready to talk about it. But if it continues to nurture its designs of dominating our country, the people and National Front for Liberation of South-Vietnam cannot but continue their just fight, until real independence and freedom are won. Through the current offensive by the armed forces of the NLF backed by the South-Vietnamese population, once more the South-Vietnamese are voicing firmly their legitimate right to self-determination by any self-respected people who refuse to be subdued by violence.
The honorable way for the United States government is not to pursue an inhumane and costly war, which impairs the prestige of the United States, but to put an end to this war, and repatriate the GIs. The United States government must be held responsible before the American people for squandering the GIs lives in South-Vietnam.
I wish your march and rally the best successes. On this opportunity , I wish to express our indignation at the new base act of repression by the Nixon administration, in indicting Dave Dellinger, Tom Hayden, Rennie Davis and five other friends in an attempt to stamp out the anti-war movement in the United States. People who are demanding an end to the war, and end to the slaughter of Vietnamese children, are not guilty. Guilty are precisely those who, in the name of the American nation, are daily raining napalm to incinerate the South-Vietnamese children. We fully support your courageous fight against war, poverty, racism, for a healthier society worthy of the fine traditions of freedom and justice of the American nation. I send you my best greeting for solidarity.
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kate
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Earlier in the thread, are two articles* that had been published in PittsburgLive, which were written by an (unidentified) “Washington-based journalist and political observer”. These articles sourced an (unidentified) member of the War Resisters League who identified David Dellinger as Hanoi’s primary contact in the US peace movement, and as the conduit between Kerry and the Vietnamese communists:
............* "Answer this question, Mr. Kerry"
............* "The old New Left lives"
| Quote: | | “Perhaps of greater importance to the Vietnamese Communists, he advised them as to whom and on which organizations they could trust as allies. In due course, Lt. John Kerry, another "Eli" (as Yalies like to style themselves), received the Dellinger seal of approval” |
That Dellinger was the Communists #1 connection and conduit in the US peace movement -- the CIA agrees.
In the CIA excerpts posted below, other activists are named, but the CIA clearly felt Dellinger was Hanoi’s #1 man. The CIA reports also note two names in politics and the anti-war movement with connections to Hanoi, who are also fellow travelers of Kerry’s….. Kennedy and Clark
http://www.foia.cia.gov/
from the CIA’s FOIA Reading Room
Document:
International Connections of US Peace Groups 11/15/1967
<snips>
| Quote: | B ) The coordinators of the peace movement – personalities such as Dellinger, Hayden, Bevel, and Egleson – are tireless, peripatetic, full time crusaders
C ) Contact between Hanoi and the leaders of the US peace movement has developed to the point where it is now almost continuous.
I ) 8 ) The main mechanism for coordinating both domestic and foreign protest activity related to Vietnam has been the ‘”mobilization committee”.. ..The names of these key coordinators turn up regularly, wherever the action happens to be.
III (Record of Foreign Contacts)
1) A variety of individuals, organizations and programs have been involved in these contacts, but only two threads can be traced throughout the pattern. < snip> ......Among the names frequently mentioned, that of David Dellinger, stands out, largely because of his special role as coordinator and international intermediary and because he is the only leader prominently involved in both of the activities mentioned above. |
Document: International Connections of US Peace Groups -- III 2/28/1968
<snip>
| Quote: | 3) Continuing coordination between US peace activists and the North Vietnamese, a development reviewed at length in our original study, was evident [ redacted] The leading US activist, David Dellinger, was the principal contact for Hanoi in arranging the return of the three American prisoners earlier this month. Dellinger claimed publicly that the North Vietnamese had asked him to nominate two peace leaders to receive the prisoners in Hanoi and accompany them on their return to the US.
[ redacted ] escorted the prisoners as far as Vientiane, where the officers elected to transfer to US military aircraft) . The “Defense Committee” organized by Dellinger and Tom Hayden in November ( see our report of 21 December 1967) to “ encourage the release” of POWs and “defend” their rights presumably was instrumental in the negotiations with Hanoi, but no evidence of this has come to hand. |
Document: Comments of North Vietnamese Official (deleted) Concerning the Pending Release
in Hanoi of Three American Prisoners of War 9/12/1972
<snips>
| Quote: |
On 8 September [ redacted] made the following comments concerning the North Vietnamese intent to release three American prisoners of war (POWs)
C) The POWs will be turned over to Cora Weiss, David Dellinger, representatives of the Committee of Liaison with Families of Servicemen Detained in North Vietnam, and representatives of other American organizations. They are nominating a group of five people to go to Hanoi and, if nothing happens, they will be going on 16 September.
F) In turning over the three POWs to Weiss, Dellinger and those American organizations, the North Vietnamese are turning them over to the American people. The fact that Edward Kennedy was informed of this release does not mean that he had anything to do with it, nor does it mean that it was done through him. The POWs are officially being turned over to the American people. |
Document:Plans of the War Crimes Commission of the Stockholm Conference on Vietnam and (Swedish Media for Propaganda Exploitation of Released American Prisoners of War)
9/20/1972
<snipped>
| Quote: | 5) In conjunction with the presence in Stockholm of the three former prisoners, Hans Goran Franck, Chairman of the WCC, and Jean-Christophe Oberg, Swedish Ambassador to North Vietnam are attempting to arrange a visit by Senator Edward F. Kennedy to Stockholm. The two hope to have Senator Kennedy in the city at the same time as the prisoners in an attempt to arrange a press conference or similar public activity including the Senator and the three former prisoners. Ambassador Oberg, and Franck have been in touch with Senator Kennedy and said they believe that they have a fairly good chance of having him present. The WCC expects that Ramsey Clark will be in Stockholm at the time of the arrival and media coverage of the former prisoners. It is through him that the WCC hopes to draw Senator Kennedy into public involvement in the prisoner exploitation.
6 ) The above described flight travel routing remains flexible, since the WCC organizers of the Western media coverage seek the best available surroundings for the event. Thus Paris is considered as an alternate locale for the media exposure of the three Americans. <snip> Should the media exposure take place in Paris, Oberg and Franck will attempt to get Senator Kennedy to visit Paris instead of Stockholm.
7 )Ramsey Clark first proposed to the North Vietnamese, while on his recent trip to Hanoi, a system of choosing the three prisoners to be released |
Note:
Not able to link the actual documents
If interested in perusing CIA docs , searching on a name or keyword brings up a pop-up document image
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kate
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
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The next question is -- who got Kerry connected with "fellow Eli" Dellinger? CIA reports may give a clue, or not. Of two names cited in these CIA reports with connections to Hanoi and Kerry - Kennedy and Clark - Kerry had earlier connections to Kennedy.
Point to remember :: Kerry had already been to Paris long before his Congressional Testimony in April 1971
> A year after Kerry returned to US soil, he was
....in Paris consorting with the enemy.
> A year after that he was giving his Winter
....Soldier testimony to congress.
Timeline to treachery:
| Quote: | April 1969
Kerry returned from Vietnam, assigned to Brooklyn, NY
Did he catch his heroine, Madame Binh's radio address the week of his return?
Sister, Peggy Kerry was living in Greenwich Village and was already in with the antiwar crowd
Oct. 15, 1969
Moratorium Rally March on Washington
Dellinger a Coordinator
Kerry known to have attended
Nov. 21, 1969
Kerry requests release from active duty to become a candidate for Congress
Nov. 25, 1969
Moratorium Rally March on Washington
Dellinger a Coordinator
Ramsey Clark organized a group of attorneys as observers
Kerry says he didn’t attend
January 1970
Cameron Kerry sought Moratorium Committee support for his brother’s Congressional campaign
March 2, 1970
Kerry’s date of separation from Active Duty
March 1970
Kerry dropped out of the congressional race to make way for antiwar activist Father Robert F. Drinan,
May 7, 1970
Kerry appears on The Dick Cavett Show for the first time, speaking in opposition to U.S. involvement in Vietnam.
May 1970
Kerry’s first trip to Paris, following his May 23 marriage & honeymoon.
June 1970
His involvement with the anti war movement & VVAW was formally acknowledged upon his return from Paris, with his appointment to the VVAW’s Executive Committee
Aug 1970
Al Hubbard, Tod Ensign, Jeremy Rifkin, Rev. Dick Fernandez, Jane Fonda, Mark Lane & others meet to organize national hearings on war crimes, by the end of the month plans for the Winter Soldier Investigation were firmed up
Sept 4-7, 1970
Kerry & VVAW, Fonda & others stage “Operation RAW”
Jan. 31, 1971 & Feb 1-2 1971
Winter Soldier Investigation held in Detroit
Feb. 19, 1971
VVAW leaders meet in NY to plan the organization's next action. Kerry proposes to "march on Washington"
Mar. 14-18, 1971
Jane Fonda, Mark Lane, and VVAW rep. Michael Hunter fly to Europe for a five-day tour. In Paris, Fonda meets privately with Madame Binh of the PRG, then the three activists fly to London, where Fonda alleges American atrocities
April 18-23, 1971
Kerry’s Congressional Testimony and Dewey Canyon spectacle
Kerry working side-by-side with anti war activist Ramsey Clark
| Quote: | Congressional Record
APRIL 22, 1971
Mr. KERRY. Mr. Chairman, I realize that full well as a study of political science. I realize that we cannot negotiate treaties and I realize that even my visits in Paris,... |
........visits....plural?
July 1971
Kerry travels to Paris (again) and met with the enemy
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So who did get Kerry his Intro to Dellinger ….
Kennedy ? Clarke? Or, a more familial contact… even an "Eli" connection?
That Kerry’s sister Peggy was in with Dellinger’s Moratorium Committee crowd and other anti war groups by the time Kerry returned from Vietnam in April 1969 is documented. There is however another possible familial connection ….
Richard Kerry graduated from Yale in 1937. He retired from diplomatic service in 1962 because he felt that no one was listening to his views, and he became a disgruntled critic of US foreign policy. From 1965 on he opposed American involvement in Vietnam. Richard Kerry’s Red Roots are well documented by FReeper Fedora
link
David Dellinger graduated from Yale in 1936, went on to Oxford, and eventually emerged in the 1960's as the leading organizer of antiwar demonstrations…..and eventually John Kerry’s ticket to Paris.
hmmm.....
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