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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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 Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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ROTC Dad asks:
| Quote: | | I have a question for all of you - If you consider Kerry a war criminal for something he may or may not have done 30 years ago, what do you consider the present Administration? |
Good questions! Since they're speechless about answers to your excellent post, I'll have to "help them out a bit."
Basically, this doesn't apply to Bush because they've been suckered by all that patriotic jingoism and saber rattling by BushCorp Inc. Their status as war criminals is to be overlooked because they play lots of lip service to ignoring the realities of Vietnam, especially since they and the entire conservative leadership was busy chasing skirts.
I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed managed to wangle slots in the Army Reserve and National Guard units. Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country. |
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Buddy
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Sparky, I see that you did not reply to my last post here or to that of Greenhat. Is there a problem?
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Claire
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 5
Location: Brooklyn, NY & Knoxville, TN
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 1:30 am Post subject: |
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There must be some bright attorneys in this forum - tell me, why is Kerry not being prosecuted for his "war crimes?" Is there some sort of military statute of limitations that does not apply in civilian life? Of course I realize he lied to Congress, but doesn't that make him perfectly suited to the profession he chose (senator)? Silence among veterans has allowed him to progress to the US Senate - further silence will allow him to waltz into the White House. Who would we blame then?
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MIA - You will never be forgotten. |
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95 bxl
Seaman
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| Craig wrote: | | 95 bxl wrote: | Sparky...
Here's a bulletin for you:
We've been screwed by every administration since the Veteran's Marches in the 20's... and that includes the democrats.
The idea that Bush has done anything to veterans that Carter didn't do, or for that matter, your other hero, Bill the draft dodger, didn't do, is absurd.
In fact, your partisan ignorance on the matter COULD call into question the fact that YOU ever served.
As for that war criminal you're so enamored of...
Given Kerry's confession that he's a war criminal, and the inability of his supporters to accept that he's a war criminal, I've gone to the extreme of looking it up.
hyperdictionary
Definition: [n] an offender who violates international law during times of war
See Also: offender, wrongdoer
yourdictionary
1. war criminal -- an offender who violates international law during times of war
wordiq
A war crime is a punishable offense, under international law, for violations of the law of war by any person or persons, military or civilian. Every violation of the law of war is a war crime.
Clearly, Kerry is certainly guilty of this... whether he has called himself a war criminal in view of his confessions on the subject being totally irrelevant... and the gross situational ethics of Kerry supporters on this matter is reason enough to oppose Kerry BY ITSELF. |
For whatever distortion you would make of whatever Kerry said about war criminal there is some folks - and you - who would define him as war criminal. |
Sorry, Craig... he convicts himself of the charge. HE is the one who called himself guilty of atrocities. As I have pointed out, anyone self-confessed to committing "atrocities" is, by definition, a war criminal.
Just because you and the rest of the Kerry supporters don't happen to like that label (kinda like you folks typically DO love the label you try to paint Bush with... "AWOL") doesn't mean that the label, which is, after all, true; is a distortion of any kind.
| Quote: |
Stops to think for a moment if Kerry was war criminal for following same orders as the rest of his peers. |
Of his "peers," how many of them have confessed to committing atrocities?
You have to understand... that "Befehl ist Befehl" crap didn't work in Nuremberg, and it doesn't work here, either.
| Quote: |
So is Kerry telling the truth or is Kerry a liar if he did say - as you and some have said he said - that his own self be a war criminal? |
Can't have it both ways, stud. He's either a liar about his own experiences, which makes him a liar... or he's telling the truth... which makes him a war criminal. Simple, really. Back then, it was self-serving to admit he committed atrocities... now the little war criminal won't acknowledge it? Please.
| Quote: |
What twists of reason do some of you folks use to call him a war criminal for what he said but exempt others who followed the same orders and did much the same as he did? |
My good fellow, the "twist of reason" is for Kerry supporters.
I think anyone who has admitted to war crimes should not be my President. That Kerry is a war criminal doesn't bother you people, because you all hate Bush so much you'd support Kerry if he was an axe murderer.
So, in reality... I have "exempted" no one. ANY self-admitted war-criminal should not be President.
Not just Kerry.
But thanks for asking.
| Quote: |
Oh well, I have given up on this group for being worth anything more than some laughs. |
Since your support of Kerry proves you to be incapable of independent thought or discernment, I can understand how this kind of thing would make you uncomfortable.
| Quote: |
Damned hilarious, I think, that it is the most rabid supporters of what this group is about who are doing the most violations of the precepts by sinking to ad hominem and resorting to name calling and insults. |
Actually, I have backed up my conclusions by facts. Your inability to grasp them is, well, quite irrelevant.
But, thanks for playing. |
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95 bxl
Seaman
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 2:39 am Post subject: Re: What about Bush? |
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| ROTC DAD wrote: | | I have a question for all of you - If you consider Kerry a war criminal for something he may or may not have done 30 years ago, what do you consider the present Administration? |
Gee, dad... I hope you can somehow understand the difference between Kerry ADMITTING he is a war criminal (which he did admit, your inability to deal with it notwithstanding) and the phrase "may or may not have done."
You get it? There is NO QUESTION Kerry committed war crimes. None. He has confessed to it, admitted it, and acknowledges it. It's just a damned shame you people can't do the same.
In fact, the ONLY question is this: Does the fact that Kerry is a war criminal mean he should be President?
Clearly... the answer SHOULD be "no." But for people like you, who, if you exhibit any ethics at all, obviously prefer the "situational" variety, the indisputable fact that Kerry is a war criminal means nothing to you.
| Quote: |
Rumsfeld has come out and stated that he is responsible for the actions at Abu Ghraib ( perhaps not personally, but as the one in charge of the DOD), yet it appears you can be responsible without being accountable. If he's responsible, then he's a war criminal as we know the actions taken at the prison are against the rules of the Geneva Conventions. So Rumsfeld is a war criminal as is the Administration which harbors him. |
Swell. I don't think Rumsfeld should be president either. Next?
| Quote: |
We also know that at least two high-ranking members of the Administration are traitors, having disclosed the name of an non-official cover operative of the CIA to the press for no other reason than to discredit her husband. This act was against the security interests of the US. And again, the Administration chooses to harbor these officials, making them complicit in acting against the interests of the US. |
OK... whoever these UNNAMED individuals are, they should be disqualified as well.
| Quote: |
So the question is - if you believe Kerry to be unfit because of comments made some 30 years ago, how can you believe the Bush Administration is fit to run the country when they are war criminals and traitors now? |
Because YOU are delusional, and Kerry is a self-admitted war criminal.
Let me put the question back to you this way, ... dad.
If you'll support a war criminal like Kerry... then why does it bother you to support, to hear you tell it, Administration war criminals?
After all.... war criminals are war criminals, right? So, since your twisted powers of observation have led you to believe the current Administration are war criminals, and you support a war criminal politically... you shouldn't have any problem with Bush.... should you?
Or are you a hypocrite? |
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Craig
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| 95 bxl wrote: | | Craig wrote: | | 95 bxl wrote: | Sparky...
Here's a bulletin for you:
We've been screwed by every administration since the Veteran's Marches in the 20's... and that includes the democrats.
The idea that Bush has done anything to veterans that Carter didn't do, or for that matter, your other hero, Bill the draft dodger, didn't do, is absurd.
In fact, your partisan ignorance on the matter COULD call into question the fact that YOU ever served.
As for that war criminal you're so enamored of...
Given Kerry's confession that he's a war criminal, and the inability of his supporters to accept that he's a war criminal, I've gone to the extreme of looking it up.
hyperdictionary
Definition: [n] an offender who violates international law during times of war
See Also: offender, wrongdoer
yourdictionary
1. war criminal -- an offender who violates international law during times of war
wordiq
A war crime is a punishable offense, under international law, for violations of the law of war by any person or persons, military or civilian. Every violation of the law of war is a war crime.
Clearly, Kerry is certainly guilty of this... whether he has called himself a war criminal in view of his confessions on the subject being totally irrelevant... and the gross situational ethics of Kerry supporters on this matter is reason enough to oppose Kerry BY ITSELF. |
For whatever distortion you would make of whatever Kerry said about war criminal there is some folks - and you - who would define him as war criminal. |
Sorry, Craig... he convicts himself of the charge. HE is the one who called himself guilty of atrocities. As I have pointed out, anyone self-confessed to committing "atrocities" is, by definition, a war criminal.
Just because you and the rest of the Kerry supporters don't happen to like that label (kinda like you folks typically DO love the label you try to paint Bush with... "AWOL") doesn't mean that the label, which is, after all, true; is a distortion of any kind.
| Quote: |
Stops to think for a moment if Kerry was war criminal for following same orders as the rest of his peers. |
Of his "peers," how many of them have confessed to committing atrocities?
You have to understand... that "Befehl ist Befehl" crap didn't work in Nuremberg, and it doesn't work here, either.
| Quote: |
So is Kerry telling the truth or is Kerry a liar if he did say - as you and some have said he said - that his own self be a war criminal? |
Can't have it both ways, stud. He's either a liar about his own experiences, which makes him a liar... or he's telling the truth... which makes him a war criminal. Simple, really. Back then, it was self-serving to admit he committed atrocities... now the little war criminal won't acknowledge it? Please.
| Quote: |
What twists of reason do some of you folks use to call him a war criminal for what he said but exempt others who followed the same orders and did much the same as he did? |
My good fellow, the "twist of reason" is for Kerry supporters.
I think anyone who has admitted to war crimes should not be my President. That Kerry is a war criminal doesn't bother you people, because you all hate Bush so much you'd support Kerry if he was an axe murderer.
So, in reality... I have "exempted" no one. ANY self-admitted war-criminal should not be President.
Not just Kerry.
But thanks for asking.
| Quote: |
Oh well, I have given up on this group for being worth anything more than some laughs. |
Since your support of Kerry proves you to be incapable of independent thought or discernment, I can understand how this kind of thing would make you uncomfortable.
| Quote: |
Damned hilarious, I think, that it is the most rabid supporters of what this group is about who are doing the most violations of the precepts by sinking to ad hominem and resorting to name calling and insults. |
Actually, I have backed up my conclusions by facts. Your inability to grasp them is, well, quite irrelevant.
But, thanks for playing. |
If folks believed in their claims they would not need to misquote to try to make a point. The actual words he used would do well enough.
Calling your distortions facts does not give them the least credibility.
Like I sad about hilarious. I get quite a kick out of it they way to try spinning to judge Kerry a Criminal for doing same things as others whom you would judge as not criminal and you base that on your claim that Kerry confessed to being a war criminal.
LOL - or maybe you figure confessing to a crime to being a crime and not confessing to a crime to not being a crime.
How many of his peers confessed to atrocities? Where do you draw the line at what is peers? Only some of the Vets who told what they witnesses or did were demonstrated to be liars. It only takes a few idiot zealots or shills to discredit a group much.
I think of myself as more of a liar opposer than a Kerry supporter. Don't even like the guy.
As for Kerry being a liar? What is new in politics?
Did Kerry go to a war he opposed to score points for political future? Maybe. Certainly seems some evidence to support that idea.
Did Bush avoid getting near the was he professed to believe in but enlist to score points for a political future? Seems to be some evidence of that.
Even if Kerry did think to be volunteering for relatively safe duty he did manage to acquit his self well enough when presented with opportunity to demonstrate courage.
Bush seems to have been the more successful in avoiding situation that would be any test of courage.
Kerry regrets some language - not the statement but how it was stated - all them years ago.
I don't like the way he has voted on some things but I even more don't like the distortions that have been made of how he voted on a number of things.
Bush and crew have been an ongoing lie right out the gate and been gathering momentum. Even though it is not uncommon that one lies to ones own self before laying it on others I am certain enough the folks in that administration have no problem with that.
"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth"? If you want to support truth then you might try not misquoting and putting the most disingenuous negative slant you can think of on everthing you present.
--
"Back in 2000 a Republican friend warned me that if I voted for Al Gore and
he won, the stock market would tank, we'd lose millions of jobs, and our
military would be totally overstretched. You know what? I did vote for
Gore, he did win, and I'll be damned if all those things didn't come
true!"
--James Carville |
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ROTC DAD
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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95 bxl,
First off, Son, don't call me dad. If my son acted like you, I'd ground him for a week.
Secondly, nowhere does it say I am backing Kerry for President. So shut up.
Thirdly, Kerry did not say he committed war crimes. That is an untrue statement.
Fourth, if Rumsfeld shouldn't be President because of war crimes, the President who states he is doing such a great job by association shouldn't be preseident. If you choose to associate and abet the actions of criminals, you are a criminal.
Fifth, you're being facetious and idiotic. You blame Kerry for something which happened 30 years ago (I'm not going to make any assumptions as to where you were 30 years ago. You may or may not have been in Vietnam. Don't know. Don't care.) Yet you're quite willing to ignore the crimes which are being committed right now against the US - real crimes, btw, not ones that may actually just have been the hyperbolic statements of young combat vet - by the so-called legitimate government of the US. Why is that I wonder?
If you're going to call a person a hypocrite, make sure you are not so transparent in your own hypocricy.
Sixth, as for being delusional; That's the pot calling the kettle black.
And finally, Claire actually asks the best question on this forum - one which none of you seem to be able to answer. If Kerry is guilty of war crimes, why has he not been prosecuted? There is no statute of limitations on war crimes, and Greenhat and you have made it clear that crimes have been committed. Have him prosecuted. Or is it that you can't? |
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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ROTC DAD wrote: | | If Kerry is guilty of war crimes, why has he not been prosecuted? There is no statute of limitations on war crimes, and Greenhat and you have made it clear that crimes have been committed. Have him prosecuted. Or is it that you can't? |
Like any other criminal action, prosecution must be rooted in the government. How is it that you don't know something that basic?
_________________
De Oppresso Liber |
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95 bxl
Seaman
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Craig wrote: |
If folks believed in their claims they would not need to misquote to try to make a point. The actual words he used would do well enough. |
So, contrary to "giving up," here, your MASOCHISTIC streak won out, eh?
THESE words, you mean?
KERRY: There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.
| Quote: |
Calling your distortions facts does not give them the least credibility. |
But backing them up with Kerry's own confession does, right Craig? And where have I "distorted" THAT?
I repeat: your inability to grasp or accept facts is irrelevant. By his own admission, Kerry is a war criminal. And, since you support, for whatever bizarre reason, Kerry; you support a war criminal.
No "distortions." Just fact.
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Like I sad about hilarious. I get quite a kick out of it they way to try spinning to judge Kerry a Criminal for doing same things as others whom you would judge as not criminal and you base that on your claim that Kerry confessed to being a war criminal. |
Like you said about "giving up?"
Kerry spun himself as a war criminal, your inability to understand that notwithstanding. And I would judge anyone running for president with the same set of criteria... another fact you don't get.
As for "others," when "others" who have admitted to committing war crimes run for president, they, to can expect me not to support them.
Nothing "hilarious," except for those whose situational ethics will allow them to support a war criminal merely because he happens to be a democrat. I mean, that you people actually can do that is, to me, a real "hoot."
| Quote: |
LOL - or maybe you figure confessing to a crime to being a crime and not confessing to a crime to not being a crime. |
"LOL?" Easily amused, are you?
No. What I figure, and what the quote above confirms, is that Kerry is a self-confessed war criminal.
| Quote: |
How many of his peers confessed to atrocities? Where do you draw the line at what is peers? Only some of the Vets who told what they witnesses or did were demonstrated to be liars. It only takes a few idiot zealots or shills to discredit a group much. |
Like you and Sparky and others here discredit Kerry by your bizarre responses, you mean?
Craig, as far as the issue of being president is concerned, it doesn't matter who else has confessed to atrocities.
Of the 3 candidates of any stature, only one is a war criminal. What others may, or may not have done has nothing to do with that. And of the 3 candidates of any stature, you and the other democrats here are supporting a war criminal. And what others may, or may not have done has nothing to do with that.
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I think of myself as more of a liar opposer than a Kerry supporter. Don't even like the guy. |
Well, self-accommodation is the hallmark of situational ethics. You HAD to think of yourself as something besides a war criminal supporter. If you thought of yourself as what you are, you'd have to take responsibility for that, and those with the situational ethics necessary to support a war criminal would find that difficult.
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As for Kerry being a liar? What is new in politics? |
SO... in one paragraph, you call yourself a "liar opposer," and in the very next line, admit that Kerry is the very thing you oppose.
That is just sad.
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Did Kerry go to a war he opposed to score points for political future? Maybe. Certainly seems some evidence to support that idea. |
Don't know. Don't care. Irrelevant.
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Did Bush avoid getting near the was he professed to believe in but enlist to score points for a political future? Seems to be some evidence of that. |
Don't know. Don't care. Irrelevant.
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Even if Kerry did think to be volunteering for relatively safe duty he did manage to acquit his self well enough when presented with opportunity to demonstrate courage. |
How he "acquitted his self" is irrelevant except to the fact that part and parcel of HOW he "acquitted his self" INCLUDED COMMITTING WAR CRIMES.
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Bush seems to have been the more successful in avoiding situation that would be any test of courage. |
Like Clinton, you mean?
Yo, Craig.... you want to at least TRY and stick to the subject? Or is your knee jerking so hard that your fingers can't hit the right keys?
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Kerry regrets some language - not the statement but how it was stated - all them years ago. |
Of COURSE he "regrets" his confession. A great many criminals do. But his regret is based ENTIRELY on the fact that it's proving to be a political liability... for HIM... but not for his supporters... which is why he will lose an election where he should be destroying Bush.
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I don't like the way he has voted on some things but I even more don't like the distortions that have been made of how he voted on a number of things. |
When he actually DID show up to vote, you mean?
I appreciate your position. But the issue is his war crimes... not his idiotic voting record.
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Bush and crew have been an ongoing lie right out the gate and been gathering momentum. Even though it is not uncommon that one lies to ones own self before laying it on others I am certain enough the folks in that administration have no problem with that. |
So... when he's re-elected, what are your plans?
Craig, focus. This thread is about Kerry's confession to committing war crimes. TRY and stay on the subject... OK?
| Quote: |
"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth"? If you want to support truth then you might try not misquoting and putting the most disingenuous negative slant you can think of on everthing you present. |
I'm sure they bow to your superior "skills" on the subject, Craig. |
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Craig
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="95 bxl"] | Craig wrote: |
THESE words, you mean?
KERRY: There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.
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I guess it is hopeless to try to communicate with someone with such determined lack of reading comprehension.
Oh well.
I'd certainly go along with Kerry talking somewhat like a fool back then with overstating his case with words such as genocide, especially
What you term a confession would hardly be prosecutable without acknowledging what he confessed to as being a crime.
Are you with me so far?
Since the thing is getting long and the rest of your gibberish pretty much hinges on your fancied confessing to crimes is proof of guilt for crimes I won't bother with it.
It is your contention that Kerry confessed to crimes.
So it follows that the things he confessed to are crimes.
What he confessed to is doing what his government ordered him to do and that others were following the same orders.
So again, how could Kerry be prosecuted for what you claim to be crimes without what he confessed to being acknowledged as crimes?
Chew on that and maybe we can get back to it. |
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95 bxl
Seaman
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ROTC DAD wrote: | 95 bxl,
First off, Son, don't call me dad. If my son acted like you, I'd ground him for a week. |
Perhaps you should consider changing idents, eh, dad?
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Secondly, nowhere does it say I am backing Kerry for President. So shut up. |
Sorry. I don't do requests. And, as you Kerry supporters WANT people like me to shut up, why don't you review that pesky First Amendment thing.
I mean, how desperate are you sort that you fell compelled to tell others to "shut up," as if your bizarre perspective on things was somehow more valuable then anyone else's.
Typical Kerryite.
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Thirdly, Kerry did not say he committed war crimes. That is an untrue statement. |
Sorry... he did. That you're delusional is your problem. Any violation of the laws of warfare amounts to a war crime... and the only thing keeping you from seeing that is your blind, democrat, hatred of Bush.
Kerry is a self-admitted war criminal. And no amount of you crossing your arms, sticking your lower lip out and stamping your widdle footsie while you scream "he is NOT" changes that.
| Quote: |
Fourth, if Rumsfeld shouldn't be President because of war crimes, the President who states he is doing such a great job by association shouldn't be preseident. If you choose to associate and abet the actions of criminals, you are a criminal. |
You, of course, being a case in point?
Only one of the two choices for President is an admitted war criminal, dad. And that happens to be the guy you're so hot for. Know what I mean?
| Quote: |
Fifth, you're being facetious and idiotic. |
You're being delusional and self-serving.
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You blame Kerry for something which happened 30 years ago (I'm not going to make any assumptions as to where you were 30 years ago. You may or may not have been in Vietnam. Don't know. Don't care.) |
Sorry... dad. I don't "accuse" Kerry of anything.
Kerry "accused" himself. And your ilk has no problem spewing BS about Bush in the Guard... which, you guessed it, took place 30 years ago.
Your side's double standard is sickening.
| Quote: |
Yet you're quite willing to ignore the crimes which are being committed right now against the US - real crimes, btw, not ones that may actually just have been the hyperbolic statements of young combat vet - by the so-called legitimate government of the US. Why is that I wonder? |
You're quite willing to ignore the crimes Kerry confessed to that he actually admits he committed - real crimes, btw, where he either avoided "hyperbole" and told the truth, or confirmed that he was lying scum. Why is that, I wonder?
| Quote: | .
If you're going to call a person a hypocrite, make sure you are not so transparent in your own hypocricy. |
Fine. You're a hypocrite. A 100%, died in the wool, hypocrite.
As for my "hypocrisy..." I repeat: I would NEVER, REGARDLESS OF PARTY, support a self-admitted war criminal. That is a talent left exclusively to you, and those like you
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Sixth, as for being delusional; That's the pot calling the kettle black. |
On the contrary. I've made an assertion (That Kerry is a self-admitted war criminal) and backed it up with facts (Kerry's own statement, wherein he admits to be a war criminal).
That you refuse to accept that, is, well, your problem. But a proven fact cannot be delusional.
| Quote: |
And finally, Claire actually asks the best question on this forum - one which none of you seem to be able to answer. If Kerry is guilty of war crimes, why has he not been prosecuted? There is no statute of limitations on war crimes, and Greenhat and you have made it clear that crimes have been committed. Have him prosecuted. Or is it that you can't? |
"None of you seem to be able to answer?"
Please.
First of all, I have no mechanism to prosecute any war criminal.
Second, prosecuting him is not my job.
Third, his self-admitted guilt is unquestionable.
Fourth, my only concern here is that he not become president.
But then, you people would vote for Eichmann if he was a democrat. |
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JN173
Commander
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 341
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Craig wrote: |
I'd certainly go along with Kerry talking somewhat like a fool back then with overstating his case with words such as genocide, especially
What you term a confession would hardly be prosecutable without acknowledging what he confessed to as being a crime.
Are you with me so far? |
I'm right with you!
| Craig wrote: |
It is your contention that Kerry confessed to crimes. |
Yes
| Craig wrote: |
So it follows that the things he confessed to are crimes. |
No.
| Craig wrote: | | What he confessed to is doing what his government ordered him to do and that others were following the same orders. |
And by "confessing" to a "war crime" he accused those "others" and his government of being "war criminals. That is one of the slanderous lies that so many of us are angry about. 
| Craig wrote: | | So again, how could Kerry be prosecuted for what you claim to be crimes without what he confessed to being acknowledged as crimes? |
He couldn't, but then that wasn't the purpose of his "confession" was it?
_________________
A Grunt
2/503 173rd Airborne Brigade
RVN '65-'66 |
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Craig
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| JN173 wrote: | | Craig wrote: |
I'd certainly go along with Kerry talking somewhat like a fool back then with overstating his case with words such as genocide, especially
What you term a confession would hardly be prosecutable without acknowledging what he confessed to as being a crime.
Are you with me so far? |
I'm right with you!
| Craig wrote: |
It is your contention that Kerry confessed to crimes. |
Yes
| Craig wrote: |
So it follows that the things he confessed to are crimes. |
No.
<snip>
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You are answering what was addressed to someone else, but that is okay.
It throws me off since I was addressing the claims of the other person, but that is okay.
It would seem to me that your responses don't really fit the question unless you agree with what the questions addressed, but that is okay.
I gather that it is your contention that Kerry was a liar when he confessed to crimes. ?? |
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ROTC DAD
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Greenhat,
Well, yes, I do know that the Government would need to prosecute him, if indeed he committed crimes. So why don't they? I would think your assertions that Kerry is a war criminal would get a rather favorable response from this Administration if they thought they could do so. Or is it that they can't find anything to bring him to trial for either?
95 bxl,
You keep calling me Dad. As far as I know, I never slept with your mother, so leave her out of this.
As for the First Amendment, I at least have gone to the trouble of reading it. Sorry the same can't be said about you.
As I said in my last post, Nowhere do I make the claim I am voting for Kerry. So when I told you to shut up, I was telling you so because you chose to misrepresent what I have and have not said. Should I at this point call you a typical wingnut republican? That would be your response.
The rest stands for itself. We could continue to go 'round and 'round and get nowhere. I see no point in debating with you further on this as you choose not to debate but turn most of your comments into personal attacks on those that do not agree with your view.
I will, however, say that if his guilt is self-admitted and he is a criminal and you know this for a fact, why would you not want to have him prosecuted?
As for your Eichmann remark: typical. |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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They're so funny! They're calling their opponents "nazis" all the time. So much so, it demeans the Holocaust. But call the Bush's gulag "a torture camp" and watch out!
As for Kerry being a war criminal, you're right ROTC Dad. If Bush could even bring credible charges against Kerry for being a "war criminal" he would have done so long ago.
But those "war crimes" would result in thousands of vets being charged, too. It would condemn the entire war.
Fact of the matter is, Kerry was just being too hard on himself in saying the orders from Zumwalt down to his CO were to commit "atrocities." If you look at what, specifically, those orders were, you'd realize that
o They were everyday occurrences
o They were part of written policy well-known to the public in the US
o They increased the liklihood of atrocities occuring
o They characterize the war and Vietnam vets in combat zones in general
After time to heal and put his experiences in perspective, kerry realized that those widespread activities committed by thousands of vets there were not atrocities.
And I'm astonished that his opponents would smear so many Vietnam vets who did those things as well as the US public who also knew about free-fire zones, burning of villages, etc...
Were all supporters of the war in Vietnam condoning "atrocities" through their silence? According to conservatives here they were. |
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