SwiftVets.com

[BillB]

"The Fair Tax Book" by talk show libertarian host Neal Boortz and
GA Congressman Linder, just released Tuesday (2 Aug.), is already
the 2nd best seller on Amazon.com (behind only the latest Harry
Potter book). I am a supporter of this initiative that is in Congress
as House Resolution 25 and Senate Bill 25. It is my hope that
best seller status of this book will garner the kind of publicity that
benefited The Swift Boat Veterans last year with the run away sales
on John O'Neils "Unfit for Command"

Learn about the best U.S. Federal Tax Reform
proposal; the "Fair Tax" at :
www.myfairtax.org/ & www.fairtax.org/
_________________
BillB (Daytona FL)
Navy (June '44 - July '46) RM 3/c
Army (Aug. '51 - July '65) Capt.
Inactive Reserve (July '46 - Aug. '51)

[LewWaters]

Not everybody is all that impressed with the proposal. Seems there may be some hidden problems not seen by all;

http://www.jpfo.org/fairtax.htm
_________________
Clark County Conservative

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

See, this is the thing that keeps sticking with me about this Fair Tax proposal:

[LewWaters]

The way I see it, no tax reform will work until we can get a control on spending. The way both parties dole out money now, any reform just may end up costing us even more.

On top of that, this initiative does nothing about State taxes at all, that's left up to the States. 41 States have an income tax. Any bets they will follow suit and adopt a similar tax?

Here in Washington we have a 7.65% State sales tax, with some communities being a little higher by adding their own tax to it. That's going to make taxes on products now cost over 30% more, with the possibilty of it going even higher due to States increasing their taxes to make up for decreased Federal funding, something I believe I saw the "Fair Tax" initiative call for.

Another way to look at it is that it actually hurts the ones it's supposed to help. Paying 23% tax is a lot easier on someone making $100,000 a year opposed to someone only making $10,000 a year, even with the rebate. Both would receive the same amount of rebate, a little over $400 a month, provided you are registered and apply for it.

The one making $100,000 a year can simply purchase overseas to avoid the tax, as has been done in the past and actually hurt businesses due to no customers. The $10,000 a year cannot. Yet, both can be registered and receive the rebate.

Who will adminster this rebate and monitor it? More government beauracrats, that's who. But, we are supposed to be ridding ourselves of them, right? For those that are put out to forage for honest jobs, where does our unemployment go while they are looking? How long will they live off of that? Will benefits have to be extended due to so many possibly looking for work?

The one thing that really bothers me about all this is all of the non-answers coming out. On paper, it looks really feasible and simple. But, look at things like Medicare, Public Housing, Welfare roles and such and see how effecient the government has been in those. Why should I expect they would any less "effecient" in adminstering a simple tax?

I see no guarantess that once the IRS and income tax are gone it will stay gone. Declaring a National Emergency, by either party, can reinstate both overnight. That will leave us with paying both forms of taxes and even if it's "temporary," when was the last time you really saw something from the government that was "temporary" stay temporary?

Another point, this depends on a lot of assumptions. We read and hear of "corporate greed" all the time. Companies are there to make profits, the more the better. They need to ensure stock holders earn returns on their investments to stay in business. At present, corporations pay no taxes, we pay them through the cost of their product. Remove that tax portion of their price and what guarantees they will lower prices and not just keep them high to make added profits? Even if one or two did lower prices, companies have, in the past, got together with them and "fixed" prices to keep markets stable.

While in agree with this taxation in principle, reality must play a large role before blindly jumping into it. Mr. Boortz has written a good book and is making a nice profit off of it. No matter what, he is in a win/win situation for is own personal wealth. But, as is often the case, once the rosey colored glasses are taken off, things aren't always as good as they appear.

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered. -- Lyndon Baines Johnson, U.S. President

The National Sales Tax's Insidious Influence
_________________
Clark County Conservative

[blue9t3]

Lew-go figure, you got no sales tax. Been there done it, I was at hanford and I registered a 280Z for 280$ loved that one? The minute we go flat then you got wash/ore raising state tax! I can't catch you if you keep moving the goal-post around!
_________________
MOPAR-BUYER

[GenrXr]

[BillB]

Most people have objections to the "Fair Tax" idea until they
get a bit educated about it, as I just recently did and am now
an avid supportter (formerlly a flat tax fan). Please, please
take a bit of time to investigate at:
www.myfairtax.org/ & www.fairtax.org/
and your questions, objections, doubts etc. will be
answered. I found it to be true for me. Try it, you
might like it. Thanks for making an effort. BillB (FL)
_________________
BillB (Daytona FL)
Navy (June '44 - July '46) RM 3/c
Army (Aug. '51 - July '65) Capt.
Inactive Reserve (July '46 - Aug. '51)

[dusty]

I got to go with BillB's advice here.
Lew and Navy have some serious reservations and questions but a careful and thorough reading the the sites BillB provided the links to will go a long way to changing minds. Even ones that have serious reservations.
It did mine although I must say that intensely reading about tax stuff and economics in general is like torture for me, the problems I see mentioned here are explained in detail.

Boy it's hard to read all that stuff for a dumb person like me.

Something has to be done about the current tax system and this proposal is by far the most equitable solution I've seen.

Dusty

[LewWaters]

Like I have repeatedly said, no tax reform is going to work until we get control on the outrageous spending by D.C. The Fairtax initiative has some good points and probably would work, provided the spending by Congress is brought back in control.

Washington has a long history of unnecessary taxation that was intended to be temporary. They also pass these taxes off on us by claiming it's the wealthy that will be paying the largest bulk of them, or all of them. Doesn't work that way.

Currently, there is another effort by some to repeal the telephone tax that was passed in 1898 to finance the Spanish American War. It was billed as a tax on the wealthy, since only the wealthy had telephones back then. We won that war in 4 months and today; everyone in America with a telephone is still paying that tax. The last effort to repeal it was vetoed by Clinton in 2000. For 107 years, we have been paying a tax to finance the Spanish American War. Phone Tax

Use this as just one example of how we can trust government to stop taxes they love to collect and spend.

Another problem I have with the proposal is all the hype about it repeals the 16th Amendment, the Amendment that gave us the Income Tax. Sorry, but it takes a little more than just passing this bill to repeal the 16th Amendment. It requires another Constitutional Amendment to repeal a current Constitutional Amendment. That means a two thirds vote in both the House and Senate and then ratification by a majority of the states over 7 years. In the meantime, even if Income Tax isn't collected, it's still on the books and if Congress decides we have a "National Emergency," we could end up paying both.

Fairtax is billed as a 23% 'inclusive' tax. Please note the use of the word "inclusive." Most of us see a 23% sales tax and automatically think it's 23 cents on the dollar, like sales taxes are today. According to FAQ on Fairtax.org, number 47, this isn't the case. It's actually 30 cents on the dollar. http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/smart/faq-main.html#47 This little known fact is not mentioned prevalently by supporters and I would imagine most don't even realize it. At Fairtax.org, it's placed near the end of a long list of FAQ. To me, that is being deceptive.

This National Sales Tax, as per the 133 page bill being proposed, is only on NEW products. Used and existing things aren't charged the tax. That being the case, existing homes and cars will become more attractive than ever and greatly preferable because, why buy a new $38,000 car and have $11,000 in sales tax tacked on, when last years model is available for $35,000 and no tax? Provided, of course, that dealers haven't seen this as a way to gouge extra profits out of you and have the used car priced beyond it's actual worth but less than the $49,000 you would actually pay for the new car. Same thing with housing. Potentially, this huge tax, even with our paychecks being larger as no withholding will be taken out, could expand the existing home market even more than it is today and actually dry up the new home market due to their being an extra 30 cents per dollar tax added to the new home price that isn't on the existing home. This, of course, could end up putting a lot of construction workers and autoworkers in the unemployment line.

To spur regrowth in those areas, Congress could be inclined to start "exempting" certain purchases from the tax which opens the door to lobbyists and eventually sends us right back to where we are today.

Supporters say this will end the IRS. Looking deeper into the bill, it requires an Administrative Authority be set up for collection and overseeing of the program, including seeking out fraud, collections, administering the registering of every "qualified" family for prebates and monitoring each and every seller in America, which also will be required to register with the state authority as sellers and collect and pay the sales tax. Sounds to me like the paperwork and beauracracy we wish to end will just be renamed and given more authority.

Back to sellers registering. Each and every seller must be registered as those who sell new items and provide services must charge and collect the tax. It isn't only on goods, mind you, but on services as well. Will this possible end up requiring the kid down the street that mows our lawns and the babysitter watching little Johnny when we and Mrs. go out to register and charge us an extra 30 cents on every dollar we pay them now? I don't find any exemptions within the bill to exclude them.

Bartering is mention within the bill, as well, as a taxable service as well. This means, we trade labors with a friend and according to the new law, must collect taxes equal to the service we provide our friend.

It is also claimed that those engaged in illegal activities will now end up paying tax on their illegal income through purchases they make. Again, they don't pay income tax now and the bill exclude used and existing items from the tax. Those people already operate under the radar and do you honestly believe they will openly start operating within the radar now? I don't. They will either purchase from the Black Market that will inevitably be set up or purchase used or existing items, still not paying taxes.


It's also said, again, this tax will be more on the wealthy than the poor. Balderdash. Thirty cents on the dollar for a person making $15,000 a year is a lot harder than on a person making $1,500,000 a year. And again, the wealthy have the ability to simply purchase large ticket items, such as a Yacht, overseas and register it out of the country or by purchasing an existing item, again. The poorer among us are still stuck paying 30 cents on the dollar for small ticket items and sending in their required reports to hopefully regain their tax dollars back every month in the proposed prebate. Oh, and the wealthy also qualify for this prebate, but won't be nearly as dependent on receiving it.

The problems I've outlined here are just the tip of the iceberg, I'm afraid. As much as I despise the IRS and Income Tax and want to see them eliminated, jumping off the deep end before looking long and hard at the evident downsides and pitfalls, which are claimed to be non-existent, is suicidal, to me. Like I said above, this tax does nothing to state taxes, which are still to be collected, on top of this tax. I'm fearful we could end up paying double the tax we do today, especially since this bill does nothing to lower spending at the federal level. In fact, the group of economists supporting this bill makes this known in their open letter of support. In it, they say;

[dusty]

[LewWaters]