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Schadow
Vice Admiral
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 936
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
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 Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:37 am Post subject: The NY Times on levee building |
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You've all heard the quote by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. (or was it Sidney Blumenthal?) claiming that the levee breaks were directly due to the President cutting Corps of Engineers funding for levees, instead diverting the money to Iraq.
Of course the NY Times is trumpeting this and other outlandish accusations while NOLA burns. However, PowerLine blog reminds us of an NYT editorial from earlier this year:
| Quote: | Anyone who cares about responsible budgeting and the health of America's rivers and wetlands should pay attention to a bill now before the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. The bill would shovel $17 billion at the Army Corps of Engineers for flood control and other water-related projects -- this at a time when President Bush is asking for major cuts in Medicaid and other important domestic programs. Among these projects is a $2.7 billion boondoggle on the Mississippi River that has twice flunked inspection by the National Academy of Sciences.
The Government Accountability Office and other watchdogs accuse the corps of routinely inflating the economic benefits of its projects. And environmentalists blame it for turning free-flowing rivers into lifeless canals and destroying millions of acres of wetlands -- usually in the name of flood control and navigation but mostly to satisfy Congress's appetite for pork.
This is a bad piece of legislation. |
...environmentalists blame [the Corps] for turning free-flowing rivers into lifeless canals and destroying millions of acres of wetlands...
Beam me up, Scottie. 
Schadow
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Capt, 8th U.S. Army, Korea '53 - '54 |
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dusty
Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1264
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:57 am Post subject: |
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Having been involved in marine construction for many years of my life in S. Louisiana I've had to deal with the Corp of Engineers and their regulations for a long time.
I never could figure out who was making their stuff up but being one of the people actually out doing the work I knew it wasn't someone who had ever actually done any work. Guys with their heads stuck in books and calculators and other places can only take you so far.
So many times when you put their concepts into practice they fall all apart. Or don't hold water. (pun intended)
They will seriously overspec on part of a project and then completely miss the most important connecting pieces or come up with stuff so flimsy it compromises the whole project. The levys around N.O. being a case in point.
It's a standard joke in the marine construction industry when someone mentions the Corp.
They have the reputation of a bunch of idiots among the guys actually doing the construction.
But boy you better get them permits from the Corp of Engineers before you try and build anything that touches water.
Dusty
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Left and Wrong are the opposite of Right! |
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| dusty wrote: | Having been involved in marine construction for many years of my life in S. Louisiana I've had to deal with the Corp of Engineers and their regulations for a long time.
I never could figure out who was making their stuff up but being one of the people actually out doing the work I knew it wasn't someone who had ever actually done any work. Guys with their heads stuck in books and calculators and other places can only take you so far.
So many times when you put their concepts into practice they fall all apart. Or don't hold water. (pun intended)
They will seriously overspec on part of a project and then completely miss the most important connecting pieces or come up with stuff so flimsy it compromises the whole project. The levys around N.O. being a case in point.
It's a standard joke in the marine construction industry when someone mentions the Corp.
They have the reputation of a bunch of idiots among the guys actually doing the construction.
But boy you better get them permits from the Corp of Engineers before you try and build anything that touches water.
Dusty |
If only people knew how damn dumb the corp of engineer people are. Fact is private architects, consultants, engineers and construction companies actually design everything and the Corp rubber stamps it. Well I should say the Corp specs it than the other guys fix it. Of course they have a complex and think they are actually smart and you better smile at their dry humor and erudite attempts or else they will give you hell. My family stopped doing federal work in the mid 90's and will never do it again. Too much paper work, you have to deal with college educated idiots, and did I say too much paper work?
Love your posts on marine construction Dusty and you have definately dealt with the Corp. 
One more thing. If you are good at your trade you can make a hell of a lot more money in the private sector. There is a reason why those guys are in the Corp as opposed to the private sector.
_________________
"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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wpage
Lieutenant
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| dusty wrote: | Having been involved in marine construction for many years of my life in S. Louisiana I've had to deal with the Corp of Engineers and their regulations for a long time.
I never could figure out who was making their stuff up but being one of the people actually out doing the work I knew it wasn't someone who had ever actually done any work. Guys with their heads stuck in books and calculators and other places can only take you so far.
So many times when you put their concepts into practice they fall all apart. Or don't hold water. (pun intended)
They will seriously overspec on part of a project and then completely miss the most important connecting pieces or come up with stuff so flimsy it compromises the whole project. The levys around N.O. being a case in point.
It's a standard joke in the marine construction industry when someone mentions the Corp.
They have the reputation of a bunch of idiots among the guys actually doing the construction.
But boy you better get them permits from the Corp of Engineers before you try and build anything that touches water.
Dusty |
Good article Dusty. Have dealt with them in New Orleans and on a large project in the past. You hit the nail on the head. |
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PhantomSgt
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 972
Location: GUAM, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:15 am Post subject: |
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Well the Environmental Nazis have had their wish come true. New Orleans is a now a natural wetlands for migrating Whooping Cranes. At least for the next few years.
I agree with Congessman Hastert, why would you rebuild New Orleans?
Just give them Martha's Vineyard and let them rebuild there.
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Retired AF E-8
Independent that leans right of center. |
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dusty
Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1264
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Thanks guys. I sorta got out of the Marine end of construction when I moved to San Antonio.
Here's a pic of the skyline of San Antonio from my 'office'.
Folks in San Antonio will recognize this as the now completed American Security Life building near Breckenridge Park.
I've since moved to E. Tx. and don't do any of this fun stuff anymore.
Dusty
note: Please re-size photos to a max width of 600 pixels. Thanks/me#1
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Left and Wrong are the opposite of Right! |
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DADESID
Seaman
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:12 am Post subject: Re: The NY Times on levee building |
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| Schadow wrote: | You've all heard the quote by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. (or was it Sidney Blumenthal?) claiming that the levee breaks were directly due to the President cutting Corps of Engineers funding for levees, instead diverting the money to Iraq.
Of course the NY Times is trumpeting this and other outlandish accusations while NOLA burns. However, PowerLine blog reminds us of an NYT editorial from earlier this year:
| Quote: | Anyone who cares about responsible budgeting and the health of America's rivers and wetlands should pay attention to a bill now before the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. The bill would shovel $17 billion at the Army Corps of Engineers for flood control and other water-related projects -- this at a time when President Bush is asking for major cuts in Medicaid and other important domestic programs. Among these projects is a $2.7 billion boondoggle on the Mississippi River that has twice flunked inspection by the National Academy of Sciences.
The Government Accountability Office and other watchdogs accuse the corps of routinely inflating the economic benefits of its projects. And environmentalists blame it for turning free-flowing rivers into lifeless canals and destroying millions of acres of wetlands -- usually in the name of flood control and navigation but mostly to satisfy Congress's appetite for pork.
This is a bad piece of legislation. |
...environmentalists blame [the Corps] for turning free-flowing rivers into lifeless canals and destroying millions of acres of wetlands...
Beam me up, Scottie.
Schadow |
I've seen this, and know it's true, but I've checked PowerLine and I guess I can't find how to access to their archives. Could you provide a link? I need to be able to attribute this NYT editorial on a site which has a lot of "moonbats" who won't face the truth.
Thanks,
Dave |
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Schadow
Vice Admiral
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 936
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:05 am Post subject: Re: The NY Times on levee building |
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| DADESID wrote: | I've seen this, and know it's true, but I've checked PowerLine and I guess I can't find how to access to their archives. Could you provide a link? I need to be able to attribute this NYT editorial on a site which has a lot of "moonbats" who won't face the truth.
Thanks,
Dave |
Yes, go to Powerline's current first page and scroll down to September 4. PL's title for the piece is "The New York Times' short memory." At present, it's almost at the bottom of the page (at least on my computer.) Paul has a couple of links heading the article which may take you to the original source.
Good luck with the moonbats!
Schadow
note: Here's the Powerline "Permalink". If you're up to investing $3.95 or, at least, wish a direct link to the editorial, you can find it here: NY Times./me#1
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Capt, 8th U.S. Army, Korea '53 - '54 |
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DADESID
Seaman
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: The NY Times on levee building |
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| Schadow wrote: | | DADESID wrote: | I've seen this, and know it's true, but I've checked PowerLine and I guess I can't find how to access to their archives. Could you provide a link? I need to be able to attribute this NYT editorial on a site which has a lot of "moonbats" who won't face the truth.
Thanks,
Dave |
Yes, go to Powerline's current first page and scroll down to September 4. PL's title for the piece is "The New York Times' short memory." At present, it's almost at the bottom of the page (at least on my computer.) Paul has a couple of links heading the article which may take you to the original source.
Good luck with the moonbats!
Schadow
note: Here's the Powerline "Permalink". If you're up to investing $3.95 or, at least, wish a direct link to the editorial, you can find it here: NY Times./me#1 |
Got it! Many thanks. |
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