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SBD
Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022
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 Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:59 am Post subject: Posse Comitatus Act |
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I received this email today regarding the Posse Comitatus Act!!
| Quote: | From an internet post…
All:
For the past 7 years, even before 9/11 I have been discussing with students the impact of the Posse Comitatus Act, which I learned about as a new 2/LT at Ft. Benning in a course titled: "Legal Aspects of Civil Emergencies." Specifically, that it was up to the local and state governments to request support from the Congress in order to use federal troops in civil emergencies. As I recall you have to have martial law declared and in doing so all insurance and other matters become the responsibility of the federal government. We have a very clear example of how to do major disaster relief, maintenance of law and order and reconstruction of the affected area -- read the Army's After Action Report on the SF Earthquake of 1906.
Remember Chairman Mao said it best -- "Politics are always in Command!"
This is probably closer to the truth than most of the stuff we have seen or heard.
This is a post from a fellow over in Merritt Is, FL, a reporter who's been researching what went on before the storm hit. If it is true, it should read by all of those that think the President was not doing his job.
I think all of Mayor Nagin's pomp and posturing is going to bite him hard in the near future as the lies and distortions of his interviews are coming to light.
*************************************************************
On Friday night before the storm hit Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center took the unprecedented action of calling Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco personally to plead with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of NO and they said they'd take it under consideration. This was after the NOAA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 68' waves before it was destroyed.
President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting all of the paperwork required for a state to request federal assistance (and not be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the Insurgency Act). Just before midnight Friday evening the President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign the request papers so the federal government and the military could legally begin mobilization and call up. He was told that they didn't think it necessary for the federal government to be involved yet. After the President's final call to the governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was decided that if they allowed federal assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.
Saturday before the storm hit the President again called Blanco and Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal assistance, that they declare the state an emergency area, and begin mandatory evacuation. After a personal plea from the President Nagin agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the governor still refused to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal action. In frustration the President declared the area a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations. Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a state request federal aid before the federal government can move into state with troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality of it was called into question to use before the disaster.
Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past decade to NO for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the gambling ships. Toss in the investigation that will look into why the emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal government for funding and published on the city's website was never implemented and in fact may have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal funding as we now learn that the organizations identified in the plan were never contacted or coordinating into any planning - though the document implies that they were.
The suffering people of NO need to be asking some hard questions as do we all, but they better start with why Gov. Blanco refused to even sign the multi-state mutual aid pack activation documents until Wednesday which further delayed the legal deployment of National Guard from adjoining states. Or maybe ask why Mayor Nagin keeps harping that the President should have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses at his disposal to use between the local school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never raised a finger to prepare them or activate them.
This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major city has all but been destroyed and thousands of people have died with hundreds of thousands more suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing fingers and trying to find a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and incompetence. Pray to God for the survivors that they can start their lives anew as fast as possible and we learn from all the mistakes to avoid them in the future.
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SBD |
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Uisguex Jack
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 613
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY. MAY THE SUN SHINE BRIGHTLY ON THOSE CHIPS. |
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kman
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 132
Location: Diamond Bar, Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:52 am Post subject: |
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The idea of the Federal gobbmint running roughshod over a state--even a corrupt, inbred, incompetently led state--scares me. Seems like a slippery slope. This is a Federal system, and states are sovereign, period.
Besides, everyone knows the role of the Federal gobmint is to convert all non believers to Christianity and prosecute aggressive wars of imperialism  .
Kurt |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Snopes has wasted no time labeling this email as "False." Evidence has come forward claiming Bush didn't call Blanco until just before the news conference. It doesn't change that Max Mayfield called Nagin Saturday, though.
I just contacted Snopes myself with a quote from the Larry King Show of August 30th, quoting Governor Blancos own words;
| Quote: | KING: Governor Barbour said that the president wanted to visit Mississippi, he told him not to come. Does he want to come to Louisiana?
BLANCO: Well, I've been in touch with the president. He's called often before the storm and after the storm. I know he's helping Haley. He's helping Louisiana. He's helping Mississippi. We're in desperate need. I've never seen anything like this. We've seen lots of hurricanes on this coastline here in Louisiana and Mississippi. We've got a lot of friends al along the coast, Florida, Alabama and Mississippi. |
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/30/lkl.01.html |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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If the various revisionist historians would actually study the period leading up to the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 they might discover that the state and local governments fought its passage, especially in the South. After the Civil War the southern troops and militias were disbanded, the state and local governments were bankrupt and the police forces and sheriff staffs were cut to almost nothing since they hadn't the money for payrolls. With federal troops everywhere, the locals didn't worry , because any time they needed law enforcement bodies, they could just go to the local military commander and request troops. This played havoc on the Army's budget. The military commanders begged Congress to do something about it and the Posse Comitatus Act was the result. Military commanders were no longer REQUIRED to send men to help law enforcement officials. They could hide behind Posse Comitatus. The Act, however, did give the military commanders the disgression to act if requested, but didn't require it. Sometime between then and now, liberals have interpreted the law to FORBIDDING the sending of Federal troops. It's amazing how liberals can twist something to their benefit and get the support of the courts, isn't it?
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Swift Boats - Qui Nhon (12/69-4/70), Cat Lo (4/70-5/70), Vung Tau (5/70-12/71) |
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dusty
Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1264
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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The history of the act really is interesting and it's not as cut and dried as it may seem at first glance.
Apparently it's been used and misused several times.
Reference this historical article.
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/cc/baker1.html
Dusty
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Left and Wrong are the opposite of Right! |
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Anker-Klanker
Admiral
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Richardson, TX
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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And then there's Ophelia...
Notice how all the screamers are NOT suggesting that POTUS preempt local and state authorities, send in the NG, etc., etc., for it.
Notice anything inconsistent... Wonder why that is?
Could it be that Ophelia hasn't developed into a political opportunity yet?
Last edited by Anker-Klanker on Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Uisguex Jack
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 613
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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I am absolutly livid. NPR is today, noon saturday doing a in depth show asserting the evacuation of New Orleans was entirely the responsibilty of Bush and Homeland Security. This because Bush had declaired a state of emergency a couple of days before.
They are not in any way explaining anything accurate about the legality of the federal Govt. invading a state absent the Gov. of that state requesting, legally, thru proper chanells that the National Guard be sent in.
the Posse Comitatus Act or the Insurgency Act. They are saying nothing about it.
NPR needs to be shut down, Bush should take them over.... |
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Demaris
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 26
Location: Katy, TX
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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It would be nice to think that people of all stripes could be rational where this issue is concerned.
In my personal opinion, both the Governor of Louisiana and the mayor of New Orleans are accountable for the loss of life. There are three shades of truth in all this: a) The truth the way we see it b) The truth the way they see it and c) what really happened.
The irony of it is that if Bush had acted the way the libs think he should have acted....that is, imposed martial law, called in the troops for forcible evacuation, and gotten everyone out of there before the storm hit...and it hadn't flooded....the same libs who are now blaming him for not doing that, would be calling him Hitler, trumpeting about violating State's rights and accusing him of Cowboy leadership, or whatever they call it.
And if even if he had succeeded before the flood of completely evacuating New Orleans....they'd have found some other cause to blame him for.
I will never vote Democrat again. |
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SBD
Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Uisguex Jack wrote: | I am absolutly livid. NPR is today, noon saturday doing a in depth show asserting the evacuation of New Orleans was entirely the responsibilty of Bush and Homeland Security. This because Bush had declaired a state of emergency a couple of days before.
They are not in any way explaining anything accurate about the legality of the federal Govt. invading a state absent the Gov. of that state requesting, legally, thru proper chanells that the National Guard be sent in.
the Posse Comitatus Act or the Insurgency Act. They are saying nothing about it.
NPR needs to be shut down, Bush should take them over.... |
These so called journalists are all a bunch of stupid morons and the FCC should sanction the likes NPR for deliberately broadcasting false information for political purposes. The President can not declare a disaster area until the actual disaster has occured and the Governor has requested it. THe disaster declaration a few days before Katrina had absolutely nothing to do with Katrina. It was in response to damage from Hurricane Cindy.
| Quote: |
Times-Picayune (New Orleans)
http://www.nola.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1125125487221200.xml?nola
August 27, 2005 Saturday
SECTION: METRO; JEFFERSON POLITICS; Pg. 1
Storm steals session center stage
By Sheila Grissett, Mary Swerczek, and Drew Broach, Staff writers
Dozens of federal, state, and local emergency management officials huddled for the first time Friday to talk about FEMA Disaster Declaration No. 1601, issued as a result of Tropical Storm Cindy damages last month, but it was a hurricane named Katrina that claimed much of the spotlight.
"This meeting is about how to get your (Cindy) money," Col. Jeff Smith, deputy director of the state Office of Homeland Security, told emergency managers and government representatives gathered in Elmwood to begin applying for their share of federal disaster dollars.
"We've got this one storm we're clearing up, yet we have another in the Gulf," he said of Katrina, a rapidly strengthening storm that crossed south Florida on Thursday night and is expected to make a second landfall as a strong Category 3 hurricane somewhere between Louisiana and Florida late Sunday or Monday.
The disaster declaration requested by Gov. Kathleen Blanco last month and issued this week by President Bush will make FEMA disaster funds available to help governments in a five-parish area pay for cleanup costs associated with Cindy, a strong tropical storm that damaged or destroyed thousands of trees and caused widespread power outages when it blew ashore July 5.
The subject of Friday's meeting was serious, but as is often the case, participants relied on a bit of humor to ease the tension.
"Shouldn't we just apply for Katrina money now? It would save time and taxpayers' money," joked Jim Baker, operations superintendent for the East Jefferson Levee District, one of the public agencies in line for a FEMA check.
Off and on throughout the morning, Smith and Col. Steve Dabadie, Louisiana National Guard chief of staff, used a hand-held device to keep a check on Katrina's track.
When the storm began a slight shift to the west, the device was passed from hand-to-hand for others to get a look.
Under the declaration for Cindy, state, parish, and municipal agencies in Jefferson, St. Bernard, St. Charles, Plaquemines and Lafourche parishes can have 75 percent of their eligible, properly documented expenses covered, meaning the costs won't have to be absorbed into local budgets.
FEMA representatives also said they will work closely with Orleans Parish next week to determine if officials there have documented enough eligible expenses to be added to the declaration.
. . . . . . .
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SBD
Last edited by SBD on Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:18 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Anker-Klanker
Admiral
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Richardson, TX
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| SBD, do you have a link to that story? This needs to get out into the blogosphere (I haven't seen this as a whole story before, just excerpts, and those excerpts DID NOT make the point that the whole deal was about Cindy). |
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SBD
Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Anker-Klanker wrote: | | SBD, do you have a link to that story? This needs to get out into the blogosphere (I haven't seen this as a whole story before, just excerpts, and those excerpts DID NOT make the point that the whole deal was about Cindy). |
I got it from Lexis.
Here's another one.
| Quote: |
Times-Picayune (New Orleans)
August 24, 2005 Wednesday
Disaster aid for Cindy has approval;
5 parishes, not private citizens, to get money
BYLINE: By Sheila Grissett, East Jefferson bureau
It is finally official: Five parishes in the metropolitan area have received disaster declarations, making them eligible to be reimbursed much of the $5.4 million in preparation and cleanup costs related to Tropical Storm Cindy last month.
The federal disaster authorization, requested by Gov. Kathleen Blanco on July 27 and signed by President Bush late Tuesday afternoon, allows the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA, to help public bodies in Jefferson, St. Bernard, St. Charles, Plaquemines and Lafourche parishes to recover about 75 percent of what they spent getting ready for and recovering from the July 5 storm, which caused widespread tree damage.
"The president has just declared the five-parish area a disaster area," said Adam Sharp, communications director for U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La.
The declaration had been expected for at least two weeks, and its delay puzzled local and state emergency management officials, all of whom want to deal with Cindy damages before another tropical system threatens the area.
Landrieu sent a letter to the president Tuesday afternoon asking him to expedite the matter.
"My concern is that there appears to be a lack of attention being given to this matter compared to the quick responses which you have given to Louisiana's requests in previous disaster situations," she wrote.
There will be no FEMA assistance this go-round for private citizens.
Although many individuals suffered substantial losses, especially from tree damage and the loss of food during the extended power outage that followed Cindy, disaster officials said cumulative private losses didn't meet the threshold required to trigger federal aid.
The authorization means that FEMA money will be available to eligible local governments, municipalities, fire departments, law enforcement, state entities -- including levee boards and the Causeway Commission -- as well as certain private nonprofits, such as electric co-ops, said Arthur Jones, disaster recovery division chief for the state Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness.
Jones said a meeting with FEMA and government representatives will be held Friday in the Joseph P. Yenni Building in Jefferson Parish so that applicants can be informed of the eligibility requirements and guidelines and make formal requests for their share of the money.
He also said FEMA representatives are in southeast Louisiana to handle and process the applications and will work in office space near the Yenni Building.
"We're in the middle of hurricane season, and everyone's anxious to get the job done and move on," Jones said.
Although other parishes in the area were affected by Cindy, they were unable to document enough losses for inclusion in Blanco's declaration request. Jones said a parish can be added later if sufficient losses are documented.
Sheila Grissett can be reached at sgrissett@timespicayune.com or (504) 883-7058.
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SBD |
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SBD
Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Anker-Klanker wrote: | | SBD, do you have a link to that story? This needs to get out into the blogosphere (I haven't seen this as a whole story before, just excerpts, and those excerpts DID NOT make the point that the whole deal was about Cindy). |
I found it online
http://www.nola.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1125125487221200.xml?nola
and here's the actual declaration
http://www.fema.gov/news/event.fema?id=4768
| Quote: |
President Authorizes Disaster Aid For Tropical Storm Cindy
Release Date: August 23, 2005
Release Number: HQ-05-167
WASHINGTON, D.C. - The head of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) announced today that federal disaster funds have been made available for Louisiana to help communities recover from Tropical Storm Cindy.
Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response, said President Bush authorized the aid under a major disaster declaration issued following a review of FEMA's analysis of the state's request for federal assistance. The declaration covers damage to public property from high winds, heavy rain and storm surge flooding that occurred on July 5 - 6.
After the President's action, Brown designated the counties of Jefferson, Lafourche, Plaquemines, St.Bernard and St.Charles parishes eligible for federal funding to pay the state and affected local governments and certain private non-profit organizations 75 percent of the approved costs for the restoration of damaged facilities. The funding also covers eligible state and local government costs for debris removal and emergency services related to the disaster.
In addition, Brown said federal funds will be available to the parishes of Jefferson, Lafourche, Plaquemines, St.Bernard and St.Charles on a cost-shared basis for approved projects that reduce future disaster risks. He indicated that additional designations may be made later if requested by the state and warranted by the results of further damage assessments.
Sandy Coachman of FEMA was named by Brown to coordinate the federal relief effort. Coachman said that procedures for requesting assistance will be explained at a series of applicant briefings at locations to be announced shortly in the affected area.
FEMA prepares the nation for all hazards and manages federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates mitigation activities, trains first responders, works with state and local emergency managers, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration. FEMA became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security on March 1, 2003.
Last Updated: Wednesday, 24-Aug-2005 08:22:03 |
SBD |
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Anker-Klanker
Admiral
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Richardson, TX
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Uisguex Jack
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 613
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Demaris said:
| Quote: | | The irony of it is that if Bush had acted the way the libs think he should have acted....that is, imposed martial law, called in the troops for forcible evacuation, and gotten everyone out of there before the storm hit...and it hadn't flooded....the same libs who are now blaming him for not doing that, would be calling him Hitler, trumpeting about violating State's rights and accusing him of Cowboy leadership, or whatever they call it. |
From my logic, and those with much more knowedge of constitutional law than I this would be a impeachable offense. |
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