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Holgrym
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:20 am Post subject: My views |
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At the risk of being called a troll again by a moderator, I want to explain my views. I understand as was stated by the Moderator that this is an Anti-Kerry site. I however, want to point out that if one were to read what is posted on this site, one would think that 90% of all Veterans are against Kerry. While I'll admit we are in the minority, this is not at all accurate.
I do not agree with the War on Iraq... (Our actions in Afghanistan however, were another matter) On Iraq, Bush made a mistake, he had false information and instead of admitting his mistake, and admitting that his administration was already looking for a way to start it up again with Iraq, he changes his comments on why we went to war in the first place.
If Saddam was a suspected drug dealer, living in an apartment complex, and the police had a warrent to search the apartment for drugs, found none, but found child pornography instead, Saddam would walk due to unlawful search and seisure if arrested for that. Does that mean that Saddam is a good guy? NO....but Might doesn't make Right.... And there have to be some common sense rules. We are seen as the bullies now, not the protecters. I like being a protecter better.
When it comes to Politicians, I really don't like them all, and I will not paint any candidate, that I support or not, lilly white. However, I feel that this entire site is doing just that with Bush. Maybe I have missed some material somewhere on it that admits Bush is not completely innocent, however I haven't found it yet. I know before you say it that if I go to Anti-Bush sites, I won't find anything negative about Kerry, however, as a Veteran, someone who served his country proudly, I guess I just expected more.
Thanks for listening, and I do enjoy discussing (not arguing) politics with anyone. I always try to listen to their views and understand where they are coming from. Please try to do the same. |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:09 am Post subject: Re: My views |
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| Holgrym wrote: | When it comes to Politicians, I really don't like them all, and I will not paint any candidate, that I support or not, lilly white. However, I feel that this entire site is doing just that with Bush. Maybe I have missed some material somewhere on it that admits Bush is not completely innocent, however I haven't found it yet.
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Bush is hardly mentioned at all in this forum. Yes, there are scattered blurbs of support, but the general feeling here is that Bush just is not a factor in the equation.
We are solid anti-Kerry. If you've done any reading at all, you already know why. If you want to SUPPORT Kerry in this forum, fire away. You'll get plenty of answering fire.
If all you want to do is Bash Bush, I highly suspect you won't be here long at all.
All that being said...Welcome. 
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:26 am Post subject: |
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Carpro nailed it.
This site isn't about the President. It's about righting a long-standing betrayal of Vietnam veterans and exposing Kerry's self-touted military record for what is actually there, not what Kerry wants you to think is there.
Kerry has already voted to send troops to war, then voted against funding them - and then he said he was proud of that vote.
He is betraying a brand new generation of soldiers and this is exactly what he must not be given further opportunity to do.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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Theresa Alwood
Rear Admiral
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 631
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Vets of all ages and genders (as I am a female vet - spouse of a AF vet) I can tell you that every person I know from active to retired to one termers are all anti-Kerry. I will tell you that I call myself a moderate republican. I am pro-choice, I am for stem cell research, I probably only agree with President Bush 60% of the time.
BUT....John Kerry also said that there were WMD's along with Teddy Kennedy, Bill Clinton and just about every person would voiced their opinion on WMD's. We know that al-qaeda is in Iraq; they were in Iraq prior to 09-11 - now I am not saying that Iraq and 9-11 are connected...they are not. But Al-zarqawi was not in Iraq for a picnic either and Saddam knew he was there. Saddam also paid suicide bombers! These are known facts. Is the war with Iraq just or right. I have no idea...I can not see in the future. Only history will tell us this in a later date. We are at war...we must support our troops.
We have either two choices...we can take pre-emptive strikes or we can sit by and wait for another attack. When we were hit on December 7th American's came together and stood together for the entire length of the war...with 09-11 we have people already burying their heads in the sand about who and what attacked us.
John Kerry...said he wants to be sensitive to terrorist...I want to take them out before the hurt anymore American's. John Kerry doesn't even want to tell us what he will do with Iraq - he is going to wait until AFTER he is elected; after he raises our taxes. John Kerry has voted against just about everything that modified our military. He does not support our troops. If you want someone who will protect our troops it is not John Kerry.
As a vet there is only one choice this election. And I can tell you the majority of vets support President Bush and are very anti-Kerry.
Swiftvets...keep up the great work. Fight and fight hard.
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Born to raise a little hell! |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:47 am Post subject: |
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Great post Theresa - I could have written it myself, almost! (My DH is Navy)
A question I keep asking these people who want to tell us that Bush took us to war on evidence that later proved shaky or nebulous:
Do we base national security decisions on the best information that we have in our hands, right NOW, or do we base our defense on something we might know in two years or ten years?
I'm really tired of the steady drip, drip, drip of the exact same lies and deceptions spread by the left. I'm glad you're there to slug it out one by one, because really, I have little patience for arguing their bullsnit, any more.
I'm glad there are people like you who will take them on and debunk them point by point. Thank you!
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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waltjones
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 392
Location: 'bout 40 miles north of Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:45 am Post subject: |
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Holgrym: How much do you know about why Vietnam Vets like me - I was in Marine Hueys and CH-46s, 19 months, 63 missions - are angry with, or at the very least, don't respect John Kerry? Have you actually read his '71 Senate testimony where he slandered all of his comrades-in-arms and talks about his "visits" with the NV and VC delegations in Paris? Have you seen his mockery of the Iwo Jima memorial on the cover of his book The New Soldier? Have you visited www.wintersoldier.com to find out the depths of his betrayal and infamy? I never concerned myself with politics until John Kerry crawled out from under his Massachucetts rock; now I will do everything I can to prevent his commanding my Marine Corps, along with being responsible for the defense of this great country. If you are serious in your desire to learn others' views, then you might want to find out why we're so upset. We're not all lifetime Republicans or conservative hacks like you may have been told. If Zell Miller were running instead of Kerry, I would have to give him serious consideration. Please remember what carpro said - don't come here to bash Bush; we're much more interested in how you can support Kerry. Also, be sure and read Unfit For Command; you can get Chapter 3 (The Purple Heart Hunter) right on this forum. Thanks for your service and Semper Fi!
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Walt Jones (USMC, '65 - '69) It says much about the person who defends a man with no honor. |
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baldeagl
PO3
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 260
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:01 am Post subject: Re: My views |
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| Holgrym wrote: | | At the risk of being called a troll again by a moderator, I want to explain my views. I understand as was stated by the Moderator that this is an Anti-Kerry site. I however, want to point out that if one were to read what is posted on this site, one would think that 90% of all Veterans are against Kerry. While I'll admit we are in the minority, this is not at all accurate. |
This is rather disingenuous, don't you think? Anyone coming here should understand that, given the purpose of this site, the vast majority of the people posting here would be anti-Kerry.
| Quote: | | I do not agree with the War on Iraq... (Our actions in Afghanistan however, were another matter) |
"Another matter"? Not "justified"? Not " the right thing to do"? Your bias is showing. Surely you don't think the right way to handle terrorists is to capture them and try them in courts of law?
| Quote: | | On Iraq, Bush made a mistake, he had false information and instead of admitting his mistake, and admitting that his administration was already looking for a way to start it up again with Iraq, he changes his comments on why we went to war in the first place. |
This is wrong for several reasons. First of all, regardless of what the press says, and regardless of what the Senate Intelligence Committee Report says, any thinking person knows there were WMD in Iraq. The real question is, where did they do, not why didn't we know there weren't any. (And by the way, WMD have been found - sarin, cyclosarin and mustard gas.)
People are easily distracted and fooled. No one is even asking this question. The nations whose intelligence agencies reported that Iraq had WMD include the US, Britain, France, Germany, Russia, Israel, Poland, Jordan and Egypt (that I know of.) Is it believable that all these agencies were wrong? I submit that if you have the capacity for rational thought, you cannot believe that is the case. There has to be another explanation, and the most likely one is that they were moved out of the country before the war. And lo and behold, that's exactly what the intelligence agencies were reporting - the WMD (chemical and biological) were moved to Syria and buried in the Becca valley (among other places.)
I suggest to you that it is the heighth of folly to believe those weapons did not exist and do not exist now, and it is absolutely essential that we find them before the terrorists do (if it isn't already too late.)
There were many other justifiable reasons for going in to Iraq, and Bush articulated those as well. (Go back and read the speeches if you don't believe me.) Not least was the resolution passed by Congress and signed by then President Clinton in 1998 stating that it was US public policy to effect regime change in Iraq. (Funny how the liberals have forgotten all these things in their haste to get rid of Bush.)
| Quote: | | If Saddam was a suspected drug dealer, living in an apartment complex, and the police had a warrent to search the apartment for drugs, found none, but found child pornography instead, Saddam would walk due to unlawful search and seisure if arrested for that. |
Actually, this isn't true, but the analogy is useless anyway. Sadaam murdered hundreds of thousands of people, and the evidence is being dug up every day in Iraq. Furthermore, there are multiple living witnesses to his atrocities - so many so that there is no question of his guilt, and a trial is a mere formality.
| Quote: | | Does that mean that Saddam is a good guy? NO....but Might doesn't make Right.... And there have to be some common sense rules. We are seen as the bullies now, not the protecters. I like being a protecter better. |
The Iraqis see us as protectors now. Too bad you don't realize that.
As for the French, they've forgotten that their freedom was purchased with our blood. Shame on them. And the fools who believe in peace at any cost, well, unfortunately some of them are still living, despite a history replete with examples of the stupidity of that belief.
| Quote: | | When it comes to Politicians, I really don't like them all, and I will not paint any candidate, that I support or not, lilly white. However, I feel that this entire site is doing just that with Bush. Maybe I have missed some material somewhere on it that admits Bush is not completely innocent, however I haven't found it yet. I know before you say it that if I go to Anti-Bush sites, I won't find anything negative about Kerry, however, as a Veteran, someone who served his country proudly, I guess I just expected more. |
You had unreasonable expectations. You don't walk in to a bar and then complain that they serve liquor.
| Quote: | | Thanks for listening, and I do enjoy discussing (not arguing) politics with anyone. I always try to listen to their views and understand where they are coming from. Please try to do the same. |
I hope you're being honest, and you really will listen, because you've been lied to, and you've believed it.
Whatever you decide to do in life, thank you for your service to this great country of ours.
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antimedia
USN OST-6 68-74
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/ |
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DevilDon
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 102
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| If Howard Dean had won the nomination, this site wouldn't exist. |
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waltjones
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 392
Location: 'bout 40 miles north of Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:05 am Post subject: |
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Hey Holgrym, check this out:
http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/offer.html
It's a link to The Purple Heart Hunter; you might learn some thing from those who were there! Thatisall ....
_________________
Walt Jones (USMC, '65 - '69) It says much about the person who defends a man with no honor. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| DevilDon wrote: | | If Howard Dean had won the nomination, this site wouldn't exist. |
And that bears repeating, DevilDon!
Wonder if I can talk the admin into putting that on a banner at the top of the bulletin board? 
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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tngator
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 105
Location: Tn
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| DevilDon wrote: | | If Howard Dean had won the nomination, this site wouldn't exist. |
 I needed that one tonight, thanks! 
_________________
Click 4 SEC Sports Talk
Kerry Fled While Brave Men Bled |
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searcher
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 28
Location: Lincolnshire England
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:07 am Post subject: |
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To me the issue is quite simple.
Kerry served in Viet Nam.
He went home and sold out his buddies by his actions in the peace movement.
Now he has sold out his buddies in the peace movement by making large about his service in Viet Nam and his medals.
Who will he sell out next?
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Steve. |
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GoophyDog
PO1
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Washington - The Evergreen State
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:23 am Post subject: Re: My views |
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| Holgrym wrote: | ...snip...
If Saddam was a suspected drug dealer, living in an apartment complex, and the police had a warrent to search the apartment for drugs, found none, but found child pornography instead, Saddam would walk due to unlawful search and seisure if arrested for that. |
Wrong buckwheat - that would fall into the plain view doctrine since the officers were legally there, conducting a search and in the process of their search they found other evidence. Still using your analogy, since drugs are compact enough to be placed almost anywhere, the scope of the search was not exceeded.
Continuing with your analogy, the U.S. was searching for NBC material, programs and support items. In the course of that search they have located evidence of other crimes (about 200,000 murders). Since the scope of the search was not exceeded, you absolutely can not discount the additional evidence.
An interesting analogy you used since the searchers actually DID petition and receive permission (a warrant) to conduct the operation. Why is it that those most strongly against President Bush conveniently forget that both of our legislative bodies approved the operation based on the exact SAME information?
The fact that no WMD's in great quantity were found can not dismiss the prevailing truth that the administration, acting in good faith and with the endorsement of both the Senate AND Congress, conducted the operation in Iraq. Were there errors? Yes. Was there erroneous information? Obviously. Was there duplicity or negligence? No.
Holgrym, while I respect your views and opinions I would be remiss if I didn't point out that perhaps you have not researched your position as fully as you could. If you turn the clock back to beginning in late 1999 and continue forward, both sides of the aisle were citing WMD's in Iraq. That the current administration decided to act upon what was available should not be condemed. Questioned, and perhaps criticized, but not condemed. But, when doing this, ensure you include all culpable parties and the reasons we did not have the intel sources to cross-check.
Why do I defend my postion so staunchly? Because there is one Palenstinian family who received $25,000 from Sadam for the murder of Jacob "Koby" Mandell, age 13.
So don't pull the vet BS and tell me the op in Iraq isn't worth it. Don't tell me we would be better off if we hadn't gone and don't tell me that boys and girls who have given their lives so others may live free is not worth it.
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Why ask? Because it needs asking. |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Who will he sell out next? |
To me, this one is obvious. Like other left leaning, socialist Democrats before him, he'd sell out his country to "make things fair."
All his 2 Democrat predecessors have done is leave this country open for attacks, which eventually came on Sept, 11, 2001.
Kerry's anti-military voting record speaks for itself. It's no wonder he won't run on his senatorial record or his anti-war record, but tries to make his scant 4 month Vietnam tour a badge of honor. If he had honor, it would show, he wouldn't have to be trying to invent it.
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Clark County Conservative |
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garb1015
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 89
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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holgrym
This site contains information about John Kerry's service and agenda in Viet Nam that was posted by vets having firsthand knowledge of his limited tour. As has already been suggested, you should take some time to go back and read as many of the earlier posts as it takes for you to fully understand that this man does not have the right or the ability to lead this country or to be Commander In Chief.
In John Kerry's speech of lies in 1971 he "claimed" that he was guilty of war crimes in Viet Nam. In 2004 he "claims" to have served honorably and was decorated for heroism. Was he lying then or is he lying now?
Do some reading and you'll find out that he was lying both times. |
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