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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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 Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:52 am Post subject: ATTENTION VETS!!--"Debunking a spitting image" |
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THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!!! My God, I think I'm going CRAZY!!
This idiot is using the anniversary of the 'liberation' of Vietnam to
TRASH OUR TROOPS AGAIN!!!
www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial
| Quote: | Debunking a spitting image
By Jerry Lembcke | April 30, 2005
STORIES ABOUT spat-upon Vietnam veterans are like mercury: Smash one and six more appear. It's hard to say where they come from. For a book I wrote in 1998 I looked back to the time when the spit was supposedly flying, the late 1960s and early 1970s. I found nothing. No news reports or even claims that someone was being spat on.
What I did find is that around 1980, scores of Vietnam-generation men were saying they were greeted by spitters when they came home from Vietnam. There is an element of urban legend in the stories in that their point of origin in time and place is obscure, and, yet, they have very similar details. The story told by the man who spat on Jane Fonda at a book signing in Kansas City recently is typical. Michael Smith said he came back through Los Angeles airport where ''people were lined up to spit on us."
Like many stories of the spat-upon veteran genre, Smith's lacks credulity. GIs landed at military airbases, not civilian airports, and protesters could not have gotten onto the bases and anywhere near deplaning troops. There may have been exceptions, of course, but in those cases how would protesters have known in advance that a plane was being diverted to a civilian site? And even then, returnees would have been immediately bused to nearby military installations and processed for reassignment or discharge.
The exaggerations in Smith's story are characteristic of those told by others. ''Most Vietnam veterans were spat on when we came back," he said. That's not true. A 1971 Harris poll conducted for the Veterans Administration found over 90 percent of Vietnam veterans reporting a friendly homecoming. Far from spitting on veterans, the antiwar movement welcomed them into its ranks and thousands of veterans joined the opposition to the war.
The persistence of spat-upon Vietnam veteran stories suggests that they continue to fill a need in American culture. The image of spat-upon veterans is the icon through which many people remember the loss of the war, the centerpiece of a betrayal narrative that understands the war to have been lost because of treason on the home front. Jane Fonda's noisiest detractors insist she should have been prosecuted for giving aid and comfort to the enemy, in conformity with the law of the land.
But the psychological dimensions of the betrayal mentality are far more interesting than the legal. Betrayal is about fear, and the specter of self-betrayal is the hardest to dispel. The likelihood that the real danger to America lurks not outside but inside the gates is unsettling. The possibility that it was failure of masculinity itself, the meltdown of the core component of warrior culture, that cost the nation its victory in Vietnam has haunted us ever since.
Many tellers of the spitting tales identify the culprits as girls, a curious quality to the stories that gives away their gendered subtext. Moreover, the spitting images that emerged a decade after the troops had come home from Vietnam are similar enough to the legends of defeated German soldiers defiled by women upon their return from World War I, and the rejection from women felt by French soldiers when they returned from their lost war in Indochina, to suggest something universal and troubling at work in their making. One can reject the presence of a collective subconscious in the projection of those anxieties, as many scholars would, but there is little comfort in the prospect that memories of group spit-ins, like Smith has, are just fantasies conjured in the imaginations of aging veterans.
Remembering the war in Vietnam through the images of betrayal is dangerous because it rekindles the hope that wars like it, in countries where we are not welcomed, can be won. It disparages the reputation of those who opposed that war and intimidates a new generation of activists now finding the courage to resist Vietnam-type ventures in the 21st century.
Today, on the 30th anniversary of the end of the war in Vietnam, new stories of spat-upon veterans appear faster than they can be challenged. Debunking them one by one is unlikely to slow their proliferation but, by contesting them where and when we can, we engage the historical record in a way that helps all of us remember that, in the end, soldiers and veterans joined with civilians to stop a war that should have never been fought.
Jerry Lembcke, associate professor of sociology at Holy Cross College, is the author of ''The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam." |
This guy is spouting DRIVEL!!
He bases his 'debunking' on two erroneous assumptions:
1)That returning Vets did not fly home on Commercial Aircraft.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that commercial aircraft were employed
to bring troops home, and they landed at civilian airports.
Weren't they called Freedom Birds?
2)He claims that what vets said can't be true because he could find no
news reports of soldiers being spat on.
Of course, because the MSM never reported on it!!
The rest of his story is just so much psycho-babble and reveals his agenda.
He claims the myths must be debunked because "It disparages the reputation of those who
opposed that war and intimidates a new generation of activists now
finding the courage to resist Vietnam-type ventures in the 21st century."
HIS concern is for the reputation of the protesters!!!
He says it is important "we engage the historical record in a way that helps all of us
remember that, in the end, soldiers and veterans joined with civilians to
stop a war that should have never been fought."
NO, Mr. Lembcke!! It is important that the historical record be TRUE AND
ACCURATE!!!
I hope that you Vets will bombard Mr.Lembcke AND the Boston Globe
with emails DEBUNKING MR. LEMBCKE and keep the historical record accurate.
When this generation passes, there will be no one left to tell the TRUTH.
My concern is that many people who don't know any better will read his
article and believe it as proof that Vietnam Vets were just making up
stories.
E-Mail Boston Globe Feedback:
http://www.boston.com/help/bostoncom_info/feedback?p1=Foot_Feedback-B
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776)
Last edited by shawa on Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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He has been spreading this garbage for some time now. All I ask is why does he accept sKerry's nonsense in 1971, without any support or documentation, yet refuses to accept the "spitting" incidents many vets remember?
Most of us just moved on with the memories.
He and others like to say the stories never came up until after the infamous claim in the movie, "First Blood," but I ask, where did they get the idea, if not from returning vets?
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | GIs landed at military airbases, not civilian airports |
he's basing his position on.....that Vets never took civilian aircraft...
what an absurd premise, and for an educated person he should know that..... another fine example of who's teaching the next generation
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Freedom Birds:
http://www.exectravel.com/showdetail.asp?id=4510
| Quote: | | Many Americans who fought in the war have vivid memories of Tan Son Nhat airport, where they caught Pan American "freedom birds" home or to rest stops such as Hong Kong and Japan. |
and
http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/vietnam/scrapbook/entries/54_274.html
| Quote: | William E. Haynes, Vietnam veteran
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA 90275, USA
A somewhat different set of reflections on Tet, 1968, from one who fought the Communists and experienced the Tet Offensive. I was commander of the 90th Tactical Fighter Squadron at Bien Hoa Air Base about twenty miles north of Saigon in February, 1968 when the
Communist invaders launched their attack.
Please realize that Tet is celebrated as a period of reflection upon the events of the past year and a time when enemies reconcile and debts are paid, homes are cleaned and ancestors are remembered. It was that period that the Communists chose to mount their most vicious attack upon their southern brothers. They sought to exploit an expected relaxation of defenses and desire for a peaceful celebration to kill more ARVN and American troops and South Vietnamese civilians.
Bien Hoa Air Base was the home of both Vietnamese and U.S. Air Force units and the source of much trouble for the Communists. My squadron mounted on average twenty five to thirty sorties a day against them, and there were two other U.S. fighter squadrons based there, as well as a Vietnamese fighter squadron, a Squadron of C-123 Ranch Hands who sprayed Agent Orange that defoliated the Communists' jungle hideouts (more on this shortly), and was the major base for both receipt of logistics via cargo aircraft and departure on the big commercial aircraft that we called the "Freedom Birds" on which we returned to the USA. There was also a company of Army helicopters and a number...... |
and
http://one-six-one.fifthinfantrydivision.com/161pg13.htm
| Quote: | VIETNAM End Time
April 1971 - August 1971
As the ARVN participation in combat operations increased, the BN became more involved in "People to People Programs" and civilian area protection. This did not mean the war was over for the troops of 1/61. Ground contact near the DMZ was a regular occurence for units of the BN. And sometimes we were our own worst enemy, even with friends.
122mm Rockets
Helo Pad at C 2 After
Near Miss by Rocket
During the spring of 1971 the NVA launched frequent and heavy indirect fire attacks against Fire Support Bases A4 and C2. During an attack on C2, May 21, 1971, the BN suffered it's heaviest casualties during a single engagement. One 122 mm rocket penetrated a bunker and exploded inside. The rocket caused the death of 29 troopers and wounded an additional 33.
Units of the 1st BDE 5th DIV conducted operations during this period as part of the BDE Operation Montana Mustang. Excerpts from the BDE After Action Report and radio logs as they pertain to the 1st BN 61st INF are presented as an appendix.
With the Vietnamazation of the battle, in early summer of 1971 the BN was directed to stand down and prepare it’s tracked vehicles for use by the Army of Vietnam. In August 1971, with the return of the BDE to the US, the role of the 1st BN 61st INF (MECH) as a combat unit in Vietnam was finished. For its actions in Vietnam the BN colors carry 8 new battle streamers.
By 1972 the last American combat unit (196th BDE, AMERICAL Division) had left Viet Nam. For us the war was over. American blood colored the soil of another country, casualties were high but in this battle political decisions overruled military victory.
During the two and one half years the BN had been in Vietnam it had seen five different battalion commanders, over twenty five company commanders and an even greater number of platoon and squad leaders. Each, in his own way, had contributed to the success and history of the unit. Each walked proud for he knew he was among THE BEST.
(LEFT) ARC LIGHT
(RIGHT) TOC at C-2
(Pictures are linked, click for more information. Use browser "BACK" button to return.)
For many "Home Coming" ended before it started. The Freedom Birds landed in California and in Washington and the trip from there to a new unit or to home became a nightmare. Traveling by bus or train or sometimes hitch hiking, the returning men were swallowed up in the social and political rebellion of the 60s and 70s. There were no parades because there were no units, just returning soldiers. In many places there was open contempt for the work they had done and for the blood they had spilled. Coming home was not a happy return to a heroes welcome..... |
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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And for those reading these posts that are STILL in DENIAL, well here it is from one of your own. John Kerry bought himself  a Boeing 757 that he said was his freedom bird. But many, like me called it Hair France 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5059360/
"We looked at those planes, and they gained a nickname. They were called freedom birds, and everybody counted the days until we got to get on our freedom bird,” he said. “This is my freedom bird.” |
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GM Strong
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Penna
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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This guy has his head up his arse. When we came back from Korea in Sept 1969, sure, we flew on a civilian charter airliner and landed at McCord AFB, but after processing us right along with the returning VN guys, before being transported to SEATAC Airport, we were warned about protesters and not getting involved with them. We were told what to expect. They were there and there was tension all over but we avoided them. Fortunately we were able to stay with the USO till flight time and since mine was at 1AM, the place was pretty empty at that hour. I know of guys who ran the gauntlet but could not now tell you where they are. They would sure like to tell this clown a story or two.
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8th Army Korea 68-69 |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Whether or not an ounce of spittle went airborne towards a single returning vet pales in significance to the wholesale metaphorical loogie-ing of the Vietnam era military perpetrated by John Kerry and his ilk. |
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GM Strong
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Penna
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | Whether or not an ounce of spittle went airborne towards a single returning vet pales in significance to the wholesale metaphorical loogie-ing of the Vietnam era military perpetrated by John Kerry and his ilk. |
Oh, so true...
BTW- according to Lurch, he served in Viet Nam. Not sure everyone knew that. I think he brought it up during the recent campaign he lost due to the fact he got far fewer votes than his opponent, notably in Ohio.
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8th Army Korea 68-69 |
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Essayons
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 81
Location: Philadelphia area
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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I sent the following OP Ed submission to the Globe regarding Lembcke's Op Ed article. While I doubt it will ever be published can any of you who read the Boston Globe watch to see if it is published. Thank you.
Jerry Lembcke,
Thank you for another of your articles trashing Vietnam vets but your Op Ed article is replete with lies, inaccuracies and psycho innuendo.
First you state: “Like many stories of the spat-upon veteran genre, Smith's lacks credulity. GIs landed at military airbases, not civilian airports, and protesters could not have gotten onto the bases and anywhere near deplaning troops.”
That statement is patently a lie. I flew to Vietnam 9/68 on a Braniff 707 from San Francisco (SFO). It had arrived earlier as a “Freedom Bird” carrying vets returning from Vietnam and this was a typical rather than an isolated occurrence. There was a logical reason to land the Freedom Birds at a major civilian airport. Jerry, think about the next sentence really hard – you may have to read it twice because it is such a simple concept that your erudite mind may be at first baffled by the pure logic. THE RETURNING VETS WERE DESTINED FOR MULTIPLE LOCATIONS THROUGHOUT THE US. The logical (I know it’s tough for you Jerry to keep up with me here but please give it the old “college try”) plan would be to land at a commercial airport hub so that the returning vets could quickly and easily get to their connecting flights.
You failed the research test with your “military airbases” statement the result of which cast a dark cloud of suspicion about the truthfulness of the remainder of your article.
You reference a 1971 Harris poll: “A 1971 Harris poll conducted for the Veterans Administration found over 90 percent of Vietnam veterans reporting a friendly homecoming. Far from spitting on veterans, the antiwar movement welcomed them into its ranks and thousands of veterans joined the opposition to the war.” And in another article you wrote: In fact, the Veterans Administration commissioned a Harris Poll in 1971 that found 94% of Vietnam veterans reporting friendly homecomings from their age-group peers who had not served in the military. (http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=350). Here’s another persons reference to the same(?) Harris poll: “I responded with a letter to the Times pointing that a 1972 Harris Poll done for the Veterans Administration found that 96 percent of Vietnam veterans reported receiving a ‘very or somewhat friendly’ reception from their family and friends, while 82 percent said they felt just as welcomed by their age-group peers.” (http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-388189.html).
Since I was never able to find the 1971 Harris poll, and you do not reference where it can be found, I am left to wonder was it 90%, 94%, 96% or 82%. Using 90% then there were 250,000 Vietnam vets who met with an unfriendly reception upon returning home from Vietnam. 250,000 VN vets – using your numbers – are NOT insignificant as your use of 90% coming home to a friendly reception would lead your readers to believe.
You made reference to the anti-war movement welcoming thousands of VN vets into their ranks. Not tens of thousands just thousands. Was that 2,000? 3,000? Since there were 2.5 million “in country” Vietnam vets your claim of thousands of Vietnam vets joining the anti-war movement is statistically insignificant. The fact that the remaining 2.5 million Vietnam vets DID NOT join the anti-war movement is statistically significant.
So, using your own numbers, a few thousand Vietnam vets joined the anti-war movement and 2.5 million did not. 250,000 Vietnam vets DID NOT receive a friendly welcome home. Gee, maybe the spitting stories are true.
Then you have the gall to attack the Vietnam vets masculinity: “Many tellers of the spitting tales identify the culprits as girls, a curious quality to the stories that gives away their gendered subtext.” And: “The possibility that it was failure of masculinity itself, the meltdown of the core component of warrior culture, that cost the nation its victory in Vietnam has haunted us ever since.” Nice try “girly-man”! Obviously you, Jerry, do not have a clue (or you are lying through your keyboard) as to the way the Vietnam War ended. ALL US ground combat troops were gone from Vietnam by March 1973! By order of Congress all US air support and ALL US military materiel support for South Vietnam ceased by late 1974! The US Congresses lack of masculinity lost the war – not the military. Jerry, you are a pathetic academic if you did not know about the US Congress abandoning the South Vietnamese in 1974. Actually, Jerry, you do know about what happened in 1974 but you have an agenda and telling the truth would put you out of the “spitball” business of selling your book.
I spent a number of years as a Higher Education Marketing Manager for a computer company and met many fine academic researchers across the US – in the hard sciences. There were a few who would openly (to me) criticize the research work of their peers. The favorite saying was: “Publish or perish” which generally meant not to let the truth ever get in the way of publishing articles to promote an agenda.
Jerry, that last sentence “looks” like you.
So here is my virtual parting thought to you as I honker up a big green one – SHOT OUT!
Regards,
Dick Coogan: Proud Vietnam Veteran; 15th Engineer Battalion (Combat); 9th Infantry Division; Mekong Delta Vietnam; 9/68 – 8/69
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Essayons - Let us try - the code of the Army Engineer. Sappers First, the code of the Combat Engineer. |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| Essayons wrote: | I sent the following OP Ed submission to the Globe regarding Lembcke's Op Ed article. ...
Jerry Lembcke, Thank you for another of your articles trashing Vietnam vets but your Op Ed article is replete with lies, inaccuracies and psycho innuendo. |
Yes, well said.
Lembke isn’t “debunking” anything – he’s created his own myth… Here’s what bothers him: “Remembering the war in Vietnam through the images of betrayal is dangerous because it rekindles the hope that WARS like it, in countries where we are not welcomed, CAN BE WON.”
I don’t know who the below author is, but he does well in debunking Lembke’s “myth” theory:
| Quote: | “Welcome Home Boys” -- The Return of Vietnam Veterans, by Vincent Pillari
(excerpts/emphasis mine)
…… Jerry Lembke challenges the idea of veteran harassment in his book, "The Spitting Image." Lembke argues that the idea of the spat-upon Vietnam veteran is a myth, which has become exaggerated by the American conscience.<…> There is something in the word myth, however, suggesting that the abusive treatment towards the veterans never existed. …There are too many genuine first hand accounts shared by veterans suggesting that the incidents indeed happened. This was Chicago Tribune columnist Bob Greene's motivation when he wrote his book titled “Homecoming,” sharing the firsthand accounts of Vietnam veterans, both good and bad. Greene has "no doubt that many returning veterans truly were spat upon-literally-as a part of their welcome home. There were simply too many letters, going into too fine a detail, to deny the fact....” An argument often made by mythical theorists is that the homecoming stories of spat-upon veterans are all too similar. …. Bob Greene examined that very issue, finding that the experiences were in fact real, not contrived or universalized. <…>
In his book “Homecoming,” Bob Greene includes many genuine experiences…. An account by Tony J., a Vietnam veteran…"Well, I had to take this fellows body to his wife-she was nineteen years old…I was helping the mortician take the casket out of the hearse. Of course I was in my dress uniform, medals and all that, and the American flag was over the casket and some guy walked by when we had it about halfway and the fool spit on it and said, 'Good, he deserved to die.’ Many veterans who received this type of treatment feel an intense anger and hurt that burns deep within. <…>
…. By making the argument that the incidents were a myth is to call the harassed veterans, liars. After reading this account by David McTamaney of Newburgh, New York, it seems hard to find that this is a myth: "…a young guy, about twenty or so, wearing a headband and a leather vest, stepped back and looked at me. 'Have you been in Vietnam?' he asked innocently. 'Yeah,' I said 'I just go back, and I'm heading back to Al-' He never let me finish. He leaned back, made a couple of swishing motions with his mouth and spit in my face. I jumped backward, but his spittle hit me on my bare arm. I took a step forward realizing that he couldn't escape, and felt my heart begin to pump faster…I dragged all my stuff into the toilet stall, locked the door, put my face in my hands, and cried for the first time in months". The hurt in this quote is neither make-believe, nor is it fairy-tale material; rather, it is real emotion felt by a man who was disrespected upon his return home. This last quote comes from the heart and puts the idea that the myth holds true to rest. <…>
By claiming that the myth is false by no means suggests that the harassment was felt by all; this is incorrect. … However, just because some veterans claimed never to have suffered such experiences do not mean that the incidents never happened. … Upon reflecting on over a thousand responses of veteran harassment, Bob Greene comments in Homecoming that "on the other hand, many veterans reported stories of kindness and compassion upon their return from Vietnam. Most of this group of veterans said that they believe some of their fellow soldiers were spat upon…"<…> There is no finite conclusion regarding veteran harassment; some were spat-upon and verbally abused while others received peaceful returns home. <…>
Although there are many good points raised by the mythical theorists, ultimately the argument crumbles. The reason for this originates in the word myth. To suggest something is a myth is to suggest that it never happened; however, it did happen. Many veterans suffered from America's wrath, still feeling the effects today. They have been disrespected in ways that are hard to imagine, and there can be no denial of the facts. Vietnam veterans received both good and bad homecomings; yet, there is no consensus regarding this subject. However, according to one vet, the experience was relevant to place and time, making this seem as good as any explanation available. This is an issue with many gray areas; there are no neat and clean answers. Yes, veterans were harassed; consequently, the myth argument vanishes into thin air. |
Here are just two little stories:
| Quote: | “Vietnam: A Community & Country Divided,” by Ronan High School Students
A collection of thirty oral histories.
Mission Valley Veterans Remember the War
Jacque A. Morigeau, Army Sergeant
Served two tours in Vietnam: Bein Hoa & Pleiku
….In 1964 everyone in the service thought as I did: Fight for our country. But during '67-'68 it was very divided because of all the demonstrations back in the United States. <…> But there was a lot of protest in the larger cities. ….All the protestors were back there hollering. I just wanted to let them spend a day in our shoes. I had experiences where I was spit at and called names…. |
| Quote: | National Archives of Australia
“Celebrations in Australia History: The Vietnam War,” by Tahlia Hennessy
<…> From 1962 to 1972 Australia was involved in the Vietnam War. A total of 47,000 Australians served in that time <…> Mr Sheehan, a Vietnam Veteran,... clearly expressed his belief that the sacrifice, honour and bravery of the Vietnam soldiers was not, and still is not, fully recognised by society and not ‘celebrated’ as such. <…> Upon his return in 1969, Mr Sheehan said that he escaped the protestors, was bought back late at night and felt a 'great relief to come home'. … Other soldiers experienced severe hostility upon their return and had 'tomatoes and red paint thrown at them'. .....a sense of ‘national guilt’ took its toll on Vietnam Veterans. Mr Sheehan..stated that men 'came home and had to soldier on'. |
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GM Strong
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Penna
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 2:37 am Post subject: |
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All this being said, let me add something else. I'm not an in country VN Vet, as I said before I was in Korea Jan 68-Sept 69. But let's get something else in line. I went to night scool to finish college and finally at a regular University (in DC) to wrap it up. Veterans in general were pariahs. We were degraded by profs and activist students who did not think we should even be around. Personally, in the Spring of 74 I was one of the vets interviewed on the Smith -Reasoner report about the fact that the VA was not coming through with the Educational assistance funding under the GI Bill we were promised. The U/Mass GUYS CAME DOWN TO SELL APPLES IN DC AND WE WENT THROUGH THE HALLS OF CONGRESS. MAN, DID WE CATCH HELL. But guess what, the VA checks for school started to come. That was all we wanted. We went on to graduate and go on with life but damnation to Lembcke for thinking or insinuating it was as placid as he thinks. He is FUBAR.
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:23 am Post subject: |
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Ressurrecting this thread for the time being.
Since this canard about returning Vets not being spit on is still circulating, I did some more digging and couldn't believe what I stumbled across.
| Quote: | | We returned home to an America that was indifferent, even hostile. There were no parades, only nightmares. Veterans were spat upon, called baby-killers, our uniforms themselves targeted us for ridicule from those who could never understand our pain |
I want to see the left now call this highly placed Democrat Senator a lair for this comment from 2001. If you haven't guessed yet, it was none other than John "F"in sKerry himself who wrote this in defense of his good friend, Bob Kerrey.
http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/cfm/record.cfm?id=180076&
It's located in about the middle of the article along with more of his usual litany of anti-war tripe. |
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Nutso
PO3
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 271
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| I was stationed on the USS Enterprise from 75 - 77 out of Alameda, CA and although the war was over the sentiments, expecially in the land of fruits and nuts (San Francisco), was still strong. When we got underway they had to line up dozens of police on the Golden Gate Bridge before we were allowed to pass under it as the number of protesters would spit and drop things onto the ship. Balloons filled with paint was one of their favorite items. I used to think it was a pretty sad state of affairs when the military had to be protected FROM the people we were sworn to protect. WE would have been better off just breaking out the small arms and eliminating these ******** from reproducing. |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:16 am Post subject: |
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When I came to CONUS, we had a brief 2 hours layover at Travis AFB, then caught a Braniff flight to JFK. From JFK I took a taxi to the Brooklyn Receiving Station where I underwent final processing for about a week. I then took a Greyhound to my home several hundred miles away. And I travelled in civies when I left the receiving station. What I remember about JFK was being panhandled by the Hari Krishnas. Although Travis AB was military, it was just a stopover. The last I heard, JFK was not a military installation.
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Rdtf
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Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Sounds like spat upon Vietnam vets need to mobilize. People that spit on them that are sorry need to join them. Maybe outside his home with the media there? If enough show up the media will have no choice but to cover it. |
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