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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:40 am Post subject: |
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Rdtf, Michael Ledeen isn't mentioned IN the article, he is the AUTHOR of the National Review article.
Michael Ledeen, an NRO contributing editor, is most recently the author of The War Against the Terror Masters. Ledeen is Resident Scholar in the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute.
Apparently, the Anti-war Left hates him. He refers to Josh Marshall smearing him.
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:46 am Post subject: |
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Hi Shawa-
I do see that he wrote that article, but this is what I am referring to-
where do you see this? (not in this thread?)
| Quote: | | "Is this the same Ledeen they say forged the docs???" |
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:07 am Post subject: |
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In the "Forging The Case For War" article Kimberly posted, Giraldi is pointing the finger at Michael Ledeen. That's what caught my attention.
| Quote: | | At this point, any American connection to the actual forgeries remains unsubstantiated, though the OSP at a minimum connived to circumvent established procedures to present the information directly to receptive policy makers in the White House. But if the OSP is more deeply involved, Michael Ledeen, who denies any connection with the Niger documents, would have been a logical intermediary in co-ordinating the falsification of the documents and their surfacing, as he was both a Pentagon contractor and was frequently in Italy. He could have easily been assisted by ex-CIA friends from Iran-Contra days, including a former Chief of Station from Rome, who, like Ledeen, was also a consultant for the Pentagon and the Iraqi National Congress. |
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:16 am Post subject: |
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ok - Thanks! Good catch.
Here is his bio- (more at the link)
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/ind/ledeen/ledeen_body.html
| Quote: | American Enterprise Institute: Resident Scholar (1)
Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs: Member, Board of Advisors (4)
Coalition for Democracy in Iran: Co-founder (10)
American Spectator: Foreign Editor (4)
The New Republic: Rome Correspondent (1975-1977) (1)
Washington Quarterly: Founding Editor (3)
National Review Online: Contributing Editor (3)
U.S. Committee for a Free Lebanon: Golden Circle Supporter (7)
Benador Associates: Speakers bureau
Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS): Senior Fellow (1982-86)/Senior Staff Member (1977-1981) (1)
University of Rome, Italy: Visiting Professor of History (1975-1977) (1)
Washington University: Instructor and Assistant Professor of History (1967-1974) (1)
Government Service
U.S.-China Commission: Vice Chairman (1)
Department of State: Consultant, Under Secretary of Political Affairs (1982-86) (2)
Department of Defense: Consultant, Office of the Secretary (1982-86) (2)
White House: Consultant, National Security Advisor to the President (1982-86) (2)
Department of State: Special Advisor to the Secretary (1981-82) (1)
Education
University of Wisconsin: Ph.D., history and philosophy (1)
University of Wisconsin: M.S., history and philosophy (1)
Pomona College: B.A. (1) |
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:31 am Post subject: |
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http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=11512
A Dec.2003 interview with Ledeen by Front Page Mag. A very interesting man.
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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SBD
Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| shawa wrote: |
Is this the same Ledeen they say forged the docs??? |
That's who they claim, but I find it hard to believe, especially coming from anyone who's name is preceded by "former CIA" next to it like Philip Giraldi. I think the Libya connection is more plausable and provides a motive for Libya's sudden announcement to give up WMD's.
SBD |
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kimberly
PO2
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 377
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Far as I can tell, it still appears the President's famous 16 words in the State of the Union address are still one hundred percent accurate.
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"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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becca1223
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 293
Location: Colonial Heights, VA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | European Intelligence Suggests Iraq Sought Uranium in Niger
July 5, 2004
by Huband, Mark
When thieves stole a steel watch and two bottles of perfume from Niger's embassy on Via Antonio Baiamonti in Rome at the end of December 2000, they left behind many questions about their intentions.
The identity of the thieves has not been established. But one theory is that they planned to steal headed notepaper and official stamps that would allow the forging of documents for the illicit sale of uranium from Niger's vast mines.
The break-in is one of the murkier elements surrounding the claim-made by the U.S. and U.K. governments in the lead-up to the Iraq war-that Iraq sought to buy uranium illicitly from Niger.
The British government has said repeatedly it stands by intelligence it gathered and used in its controversial September 2002 dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. It still claims that Iraq had sought uranium from Niger.
But the U.S. intelligence community, officials and politicians, are publicly skeptical, and the public differences between the two allies on the issue have obscured the evidence that lies behind the U.K. claim.
Until now, the only evidence of Iraq's alleged attempts to buy uranium from Niger had turned out to be a forgery. In October 2002, documents were handed to the U.S. embassy in Rome that appeared to be correspondence between Niger and Iraqi officials.
When the U.S. State Department later passed the documents to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the UN nuclear watchdog, they were found to be fake. U.S. officials have subsequently distanced themselves from the entire notion that Iraq was seeking buy uranium from Niger.
However, European intelligence officers have now revealed that three years before the fake documents became public, human and electronic intelligence sources from a number of countries picked up repeated discussion of an illicit trade in uranium from Niger. One of the customers discussed by the traders was Iraq.
These intelligence officials now say the forged documents appear to have been part of a "scam," and the actual intelligence showing discussion of uranium supply has been ignored.
The fake documents were handed to an Italian journalist working for the Italian magazine Panorama by a businessman in October 2002. According to a senior official with detailed knowledge of the case, this businessman had been dismissed from the Italian armed forces for dishonorable conduct 25 years earlier.
The journalist-Elisabetta Burba-reported in a Panorama article that she suspected the documents were forgeries and handed them to officials at the U.S. embassy in Rome.
The businessman, referred to by a pseudonym in the Panorama article, had previously tried to sell the documents to several intelligence services, according to a western intelligence officer.
It was later established that he had a record of extortion and deception and had been convicted by a Rome court in 1985 and later arrested at least twice. The suspected forger's real name is known to the Financial Times, but cannot be used because of legal constraints. He did not return telephone calls yesterday, and is understood to be planning to reveal selected aspects of his story to a U.S. television channel.
The Financial Times has now learnt that three European intelligence services were aware of possible illicit trade in uranium from Niger between 1999 and 2001. Human intelligence gathered in Italy and Africa more than three years before the Iraq war had shown Niger officials referring to possible illicit uranium deals with at least five countries, including Iraq.
Libya's Yellow Cake
This intelligence provided clues about plans by Libya and Iran to develop their undeclared nuclear programs. Niger officials were also discussing sales to North Korea and China of uranium ore or the "yellow cake" refined from it: the raw materials that can be progressively enriched to make nuclear bombs.
The raw intelligence on the negotiations included indications that Libya was investing in Niger's uranium industry to prop it up at a time when demand had fallen, and that sales to Iraq were just a part of the clandestine export plan. These secret exports would allow countries with undeclared nuclear programs to build up uranium stockpiles.
One nuclear counter-proliferation expert told the Financial Times: "If I am going to make a bomb, I am not going to use the uranium that I have declared. I am going to use what I acquire clandestinely, if I am going to keep the program hidden."
This may have been the method being used by Libya before it agreed last December to abandon its secret nuclear program. According to the IAEA, there are 2,600 tons of refined uranium ore-"yellow cake"-in Libya. However, less than 1,500 tons of it is accounted for in Niger records, even though Niger was Libya's main supplier.
Information gathered in 1999-2001 suggested that the uranium sold illicitly would be extracted from mines in Niger that had been abandoned as uneconomic by the two French-owned mining companies-Cominak and Somair, both of which are owned by the mining giant Cogema-operating in Niger.
"Mines can be abandoned by Cogema when they become unproductive. This doesn't mean that people near the mines can't keep on extracting," a senior European counter-proliferation official said.
He added that there was no evidence the companies were aware of the plans for illicit mining.
When the intelligence gathered in 1999-2001 was thrown into the diplomatic maelstrom that preceded the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, it took on new significance. Several services contributed to the picture.
The Italians, looking for corroboration but lacking the global reach of the CIA or the U.K. intelligence service MI6, passed information to the U.S. in 2001 and to the U.K. in 2002.
The U.K. eavesdropping center GCHQ had intercepted communications suggesting Iraq was seeking clandestine uranium supplies, as had the French intelligence service.
The Italian intelligence was not incorporated in detail into the assessments of the CIA, which seeks to use such information only when it is gathered from its own sources rather than as a result of liaison with foreign intelligence services. But five months after receiving it, the U.S. sent former Ambassador Joseph Wilson to Niger to assess the credibility of separate U.S. intelligence information that suggested Iraq had approached Niger.
Wilson was critical of the Bush Administration's use of secret intelligence, and has since charged that the White House sought to intimidate him by leaking the identity of his wife as a CIA agent.
But Wilson also stated in his account of the visit that Mohamed Sayeed al-Sahaf, Iraq's former information minister, was identified to him by a Niger official as having sought to discuss trade with Niger.
As Niger's other main export is goats, some intelligence officials have surmised uranium was what Sahaf was referring to.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200407/ai_n9429836
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(Emphasis added by me, becca.)
Last edited by becca1223 on Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kimberly
PO2
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Do I have this straight then.....is it possible that the reason Wilson came up with his findings is that he was looking for a direct Niger/Iraq connection, when, in fact, it's possible that the uranium went from Niger to Libyia, for Iraq? Was Wilson just knowingly or unknowingly a tool of, perhaps, the CIA? If so, wouldn't that mean that the CIA has something to do with the phony documents?
Wilson's article contains only a one paragraph statement about his trip/findings:
"Given the structure of the consortiums that operated the mines, it would be exceedingly difficult for Niger to transfer uranium to Iraq. Niger's uranium business consists of two mines, Somair and Cominak, which are run by French, Spanish, Japanese, German and Nigerian interests. If the government wanted to remove uranium from a mine, it would have to notify the consortium, which in turn is strictly monitored by the International Atomic Energy Agency. Moreover, because the two mines are closely regulated, quasi-governmental entities, selling uranium would require the approval of the minister of mines, the prime minister and probably the president. In short, there's simply too much oversight over too small an industry for a sale to have transpired."
...says it wold be difficult, not that it was impossible.
...says 'to Iraq'....Did he not investigate whether or not some other country (Libyia) could be assisting in the purchase? |
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