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LewWaters

I guess there is just no pleasing the Environmentalists. No Petroleum fuels, no nuclear fuels, no nukes, no wood burning for steam, and I imagine horses are out too because of their trails Shocked

BuffaloJack · Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:35 pm Post subject:

It ought to be a law that before you can actually claim to be an environmentalist that your sole more of transportation must be either your feet or a bicycle. Of course it does take big industry to make a bicycle, so I suppose that's out too.
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Swift Boats - Qui Nhon (12/69-4/70), Cat Lo (4/70-5/70), Vung Tau (5/70-12/71)

GM Strong · Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:06 pm Post subject:

If we had to depend entirely on Bio-generated fuel, The competition for vegitation and grain to just make fuel would be such that we could not afford to eat. Most of the grains we need for feed and human food would go to fuel generation and the prices would make $5 per gallon seem cheap.

The Enviros are busy studying animal flatulence in California and New Zealand. Seems one of the factors in Califronia's smog could be cows belching and tooting. With some of the stuff I eat and I'm sure some of the rest of us here, they will be after us. I'm sure a vegan diet is great for those who play the arse trombone as well. Maybe we could harness a new source of methane.
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8th Army Korea 68-69

Deuce · Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:48 pm Post subject:

Schadow · Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:49 am Post subject:

Around these here parts, the technology for turning corn into moonshine is well established and operators are readily available. The only energy input required is the combustion of yellow pine which grows faster that it can be consumed. Should make everybody happy except maybe the revenooers.

Schadow
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Capt, 8th U.S. Army, Korea '53 - '54

BuffaloJack · Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:14 am Post subject:

Alcohol in either form, methyl or ethyl, is not that good for burning in an engine. It may be OK as a short term fuel additive, but it plays havoc with fuel systems unless they are specifically designed to handle them. A standard gasoline engine and automotive system is designed to burn gasoline. If alcohols reside in the fuel tank for a couple of years the alcohol as part of a GASAHOL mixture it will complex with the terne coating used on the inside of the gas tanks as a rust preventative and will start to eat away the terne lining that protects the tank; as it does this, it will form a sludge. The sludge is very soft and flocculent and will clog fuel filters and find its way to then engine eventually where it will do damage to the combustion system and shorten the life of the engine.

There was a very large class action lawsuit a few years back in the Western New York area that addressed this very thing. The gasoline companies eventually had to pay for the engine repairs, but only after a lot of litigation, paperwork, fuss and foot dragging. They were guilty of adding the alcohol to cheapen the blend and not saying anything to anyone.

In the winter, a shot of methanol in the tank is very good as dry gas and does its job of scavenging water and ice resulting from condensation, but it is consumed quickly and the amount involved isn't enough to damage a gas tank. It is only when a measurable percentage of the gas is replaced by alcohol that problems arise. If we really have to use alcohol fuels we will need stainless steel or polymer lined gas tanks to make sure unwanted other things don't ruin the benefit of the alcohol based fuels.
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Swift Boats - Qui Nhon (12/69-4/70), Cat Lo (4/70-5/70), Vung Tau (5/70-12/71)

LewWaters · Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:45 am Post subject:

One point I argued with teh State of Washington over, when I was taking classes for my emmissions specialist certification, was alcohol fuels. Or, Oxygenated fuels, as they were called. In older vehicles, they may have helped a little with exhaust emmissions. But, in newer vehicles, almost anything with an oxygen sensor, do they lower the emmissions?

Consider, the Oxygen sensor reads the amount of oxygen in the burnt exhaust and send the computer a signal to richen or lean out the mixture as necessary. When it sees a lot more oxygen than it was calibrated for, the car ends up burning more fuel, hence several complaints we received every winter of cars fuel mileage going down almost six miles per gallon. Burning more fuel cannot be cleaner for the environment.

Also, we now have the push for electric vehicles and hybrids. Yes, they themselves do burn cleaner, since the run on batteries part or all of the time. But, what about recharging those batteries? Doesn't extra electricity need be generated elsewhere, thereby raising emmissions there?

That appears to be the complaint of the environmentalists on bio-fuels. In order to be able to grow enough grain and such to produce the bio-fuels, large areas of trees must be destroyed to make room for that growth. Less trees, less oxygen.

Could all this one day result in us losing our freedom ove movement about by restricting what when and where we drive? I used to think not, but seeing how laws have been changed and interpreted to suit others over another group, I don't put anything past the leftist within our government any more.