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FreeFall
LCDR
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 421
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 Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:33 am Post subject: Missle fired at LAX Jet? |
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TWA800 anybody?
http://www.kyw1060.com/news_archives_detail.cfm?newsitemid=50753
Pilot Reports 'Missile' Fired at Jetliner Near LAX (11/28/05)
FBI agents and Homeland Security officials spent the weekend investigating the report of a possible missile fired at an American Airlines plane taking off from Los Angeles International Airport.
Sources tell ABC News the pilot of American Airlines Flight 621, en route to Chicago, radioed air traffic controllers after takeoff from LAX. He told them a missile had been fired at the aircraft and missed.
The plane was over water when the pilot said he saw a smoke trail pass by the cockpit.
FBI agents believe it was a flare or a bottle rocket, but say they may never know if that's what it actually was. |
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:54 am Post subject: Re: Missle fired at LAX Jet? |
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| FreeFall wrote: | TWA800 anybody?
http://www.kyw1060.com/news_archives_detail.cfm?newsitemid=50753
Pilot Reports 'Missile' Fired at Jetliner Near LAX (11/28/05)
FBI agents and Homeland Security officials spent the weekend investigating the report of a possible missile fired at an American Airlines plane taking off from Los Angeles International Airport.
Sources tell ABC News the pilot of American Airlines Flight 621, en route to Chicago, radioed air traffic controllers after takeoff from LAX. He told them a missile had been fired at the aircraft and missed.
The plane was over water when the pilot said he saw a smoke trail pass by the cockpit.
FBI agents believe it was a flare or a bottle rocket, but say they may never know if that's what it actually was. |
I want to know two things.
1) What was the altitude when the missile trail was witnessed?
2) Was the pilot of the aircraft ex-military?
Answer these two items and you will know whther it was bottle rockets or a missle.
Didn't pay attention to the over water part when I first viewed. They had to be over 10,000 feet if they were over water from LAX. No way a flare or bottle rocket could appraoch that height. Definately missle if they were over water is accurate.
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Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | They had to be over 10,000 feet if they were over water from LAX. |
Huh? The runway at LAX ends within a few thousand feet of the water. I've flown in 747's departing LAX and we were at around 1,000 feet when we went over the beach. That said, a bottle rocket ain't gonna catch an airplane. Maybe an Estes model rocket or some other kind of solid-fuel hobby rocket. They sure don't seem to be overly concerned about the whole thing, do they? I'd almost think they DO know exactly what it was, but I'm into the whole conspiracy thing way too deep, I guess. 
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Wing Wiper wrote: | | Quote: | | They had to be over 10,000 feet if they were over water from LAX. |
Huh? The runway at LAX ends within a few thousand feet of the water. I've flown in 747's departing LAX and we were at around 1,000 feet when we went over the beach. That said, a bottle rocket ain't gonna catch an airplane. Maybe an Estes model rocket or some other kind of solid-fuel hobby rocket. They sure don't seem to be overly concerned about the whole thing, do they? I'd almost think they DO know exactly what it was, but I'm into the whole conspiracy thing way too deep, I guess.
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Well used to be most flights out of LAX were for the US and as such the runways launched them continental side. For those flights out on the Pacific which were very few, they had to taxi in the air...but what the hell do I know...
As I said, altitude and ex-military pilot needed to confirm.
_________________
"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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mtboone
Founder
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 470
Location: Kansas City, MO.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Well used to be most flights out of LAX were for the US and as such the runways launched them continental side. For those flights out on the Pacific which were very few, they had to taxi in the air...but what the hell do I know...
As I said, altitude and ex-military pilot needed to confirm. |
I have flown into LAX mucho times for training and meetings and the landings and take offs were to the West always. The winds almost always come off the ocean from the west and I doubt they could be more than 2000 or less feet off the deck as they pass the beach.
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| mtboone wrote: | | Quote: |
Well used to be most flights out of LAX were for the US and as such the runways launched them continental side. For those flights out on the Pacific which were very few, they had to taxi in the air...but what the hell do I know...
As I said, altitude and ex-military pilot needed to confirm. |
I have flown into LAX mucho times for training and meetings and the landings and take offs were to the West always. The winds almost always come off the ocean from the west and I doubt they could be more than 2000 or less feet off the deck as they pass the beach. |
Ok, i will admit my mistake on airflights.
Still, flares and bottle rockets will not reach an airliner at 1,000 plus feet traveling at their speed. 
_________________
"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:47 am Post subject: |
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early reports Monday by some FReepers who heard the initial radio reports -- this is a very long thread on
FReeRepublic
Iniital radio report said pilot was at 6000 feet
Missile Attack On Passenger Jet?
Radio News | November 28, 2005
Posted on 11/28/2005 4:49:25 AM PST by texianyankee
| Quote: | I heard on the radio this morning, that a pilot of a passenger jet departing LAX claimed to have narrowly avoided being hit by a missile. It was reported that the jet was about 6,000 feet in altitude & over the ocean when the event occurred. The news report further stated that authorities believe it was possibly a flare or a "bottle rocket."
I googled but found nothing. Anyone else have some info on this? I dont recall whether it was CBS or NBC radio news.
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later post on that thread has this interview on Coast to Coast with Douglas Hagmann, Director of the Northeast Intelligence Network
audio of the interview...mp3
snips>
American Airlines pilot reported he was fired on by a missile
he was flying MD80 Friday the 25th, 1st reports in media Monday Nov 28th
plane was 5000-6000 feet and climbing, plane was over Santa Monica Bay
Haggman's website
http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/home.htm
where he also notes
| Quote: | In the wake of a possible MANPAD incident allegedly involving a U.S. passenger aircraft (see story below), and the charges against two Los Angeles area men of Chinese origin accused of conspiring to import shoulder-fired missiles, the Northeast Intelligence Network is investigating the threats facing our airlines, and is continuing to track down information pertaining to the incident that was broadcast on ABC Radio News early Monday morning, only to be removed from the airwaves shortly after the initial broadcast. Analyst and military affairs expert Sean Osborne reported on the threats from shoulder-fired missiles over the last several months. In an interestingly timed release, the U.S. Department of State last week issued a fact sheet and pertinent data concerning the threat from shoulder-fired missiles. The actual fact sheet was dated 20 September 2005.
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PhantomSgt
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 972
Location: GUAM, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Not the first time a missile was fired at US civilian aircraft. I can think of a few instances. TWA Flight 803 was the most noteworthy instance I can remember along with the DHL flight in Iraq.
The vortex created by an aircraft in flight is significant and would discount the theory of this being a toy rocket fired off at the plane. Most commercial aircraft are traveling between 140 and 160 knots when they clear the runway threshold at an altitude 1000 to 1500 feet AGL.
A small boat containing a terrorist with a shoulder-fired weapon off the coast of one our Nation's airports creates a clear and present danger.
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AMOS
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 558
Location: IOWA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:45 pm Post subject: Huh? |
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| A "bottle rocket"? |
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GM Strong
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Penna
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Huh? |
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| AMOS wrote: | | A "bottle rocket"? |
.. with a warhead of chocolate Jimmies.
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Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | A "bottle rocket"? |
Yeah, that's so weak it's insulting to the intelligence. A flare that reaches 6000 feet would have to be from an artillary tube or a decent sized mortar, too. It would be interesting to see an interview of the pilot, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. The MSM ain't touching this with a 10 foot pole, which smells of cover-up all the way. |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| PhantomSgt wrote: | | TWA Flight 803 was the most noteworthy instance I can remember... |
Conjecture PS...conjecture...unless I missed something somewhere. |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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TWA800...jury's still out, on if it's all conjecture. We may never know ( tin foil hat on)
| Quote: | | "We have always known this could happen. We've warned about it. We've talked about it. I regret to say, as I served on the Intelligence Committee up until last year. I can remember after the bombings of the embassies, after TWA 800, we went through this flurry of activity, talking about it, but not really doing [sic] hard work of responding." |
-- John Kerry, Sept. 11, 2001, CNN, Larry King Show
| Quote: | | "You know, we've had terrorism for a long time now. We've had the Achille Lauro, the Munich Olympics, the pipe bomb at the Olympics in Atlanta, the TWA 800, the bombing of embassies, and it's not going to disappear overnight." |
-- John Kerry, Sept. 24, 2001 ,MSNBC, "Hardball." with Chris Mattews
| Quote: | | "In my time at the White House (the situation room) was used in the aftermath of the Oklahoma City bombing, in the aftermath of the TWA Flight 800 bombing, and that would be the way they would stay in contact through the afternoon." |
-- George Stephanopoulos, Sept. 11, 2001 ABC with Peter Jennings
link and link
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf#page=361
911 Commission Report
The Case of Aircraft as Weapons
(pdf pg 344)
| Quote: | Yet these scenarios were slow to work their way into the thinking of avia tion security experts. In 1996, as a result of the TWA Flight 800 crash, President Clinton created a commission under Vice President Al Gore to report on shortcomings in aviation security in the United States.
The Gore Commission’s report, having thoroughly canvassed available expertise in and outside of government, did not mention suicide hijackings or the use of aircraft as weapons. It focused mainly on the danger of placing bombs onto aircraft—the approach of the Manila air plot. The Gore Commission did call attention, however, to lax screening of passengers and what they carried onto planes.
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Interesting play on words,, If it was a result of short in a wire, why the gore commision to study airport security...
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PhantomSgt
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 972
Location: GUAM, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | PhantomSgt wrote: | | TWA Flight 803 was the most noteworthy instance I can remember... |
Conjecture PS...conjecture...unless I missed something somewhere. |
A blind man could see the coverup by the Clintonistas after the flight went down.
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Retired AF E-8
Independent that leans right of center. |
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GM Strong
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Penna
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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The Clintonoids then proceeded to ignore even the relative recommendations of the the Algore commission.
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