SwiftVets.com

[Q Nick]

I am a voter (voted in every election I have been able to) who doesn't like Kerry or Bush.

But I'm voting for Kerry. I'm going to hold my nose and do it.

Bush is not a fiscal conservative, neither is Kerry.

Both think going into Iraq was the right thing. I don't support that view.

If there is no threat to the United States, there is no reason to invade a country. There was no long term or short term threat to the United States.

Anyone with half a mind could have told you there was no threat to the United States. The government says "Everyone said there was WMD there. The UN said it. The US said it. The UK said it".

Well, they are all a bunch of idiots. I never said it and anyone who took the time to do their own research for more than 5 minutes could have told you there was no threat there.

A quick Google search would show you Iraq had basically no military to speak of. Syria, Libya and Iran (Iran has a lot of people though) are in the same boat. They got nothing. And nobody gives a crap about them just like nobody really gives a crap about Iraq.

Turkey, there's a country with a military. Saudi Arabia has equipment but not many people. The equipment is pretty good. Israel has some pretty good equipment too and it needs it.

Hey on that subject, why the hell would the US give Turkey billions of dollars? Remember when the US government was going to do that to let us have bases in Iraq. It was something like 40 billion! Are they our good friends? Are they out to help us out? What idiots have we got making decisions here anyway?

The US had been bombing Iraq for years at the time the US invaded. Saddam didn't even control his whole country, he only had the center. The north was run by the Kurds under the protection of the US and the south by the Shiites who had autonomy themselves.

All Saddam had was the piece in the center. And that was getting financially crushed by sanctions (ignoring the intermittent bombing). There were UN inspectors crawling all over the country. Yes, they were pulled out but they was an ongoing game of the inspectors being out and in. The fact is, they could get much of their work done but they were pulled out.

Anyone with half a brain could look at that picture and could conclude there wasn't a threat there. If the CIA couldn't figure it out, they are full of idiots.

They aren't, of course. But what they are is a rubber-stamp organization for whatever idiocy the government wants to get into. You need a reason to do something, they'll give you some crazy intel showing you why its a good idea.

Yes, Saddam was a bad guy but there are ways of dealing with problems like that (worse exists right now in many countries around the world) without invading and holding the country at a cost of what looks like around 1 Trillion dollars right now.

That's 1 million bucks for 1 million people. Hope they spend it well 'cause us and our kids are gonna be working some overtime. Probably for a long time. You and me aren't going to see a penny of that money.

But still both candidates say we should have gone in. Even now. If that doesn't make both of them unfit to serve, I don't know what does.

Yeah, I know, I'm talking about Iraq. That doesn't get a lot of talk here because that is a war that is going on right now that most Vietnam vets aren't involved in.

Sorry but that is a pressing issue right now, not Vietnam. It is a subject that is important to this election.

I got no problem with going into Afghanistan.

Now, the issue of Kerry's service. Kerry served in the Navy in Vietnam. Bush served in the National Guard in the US. Bush had it a bit easier and may have taken time off to do political work. Kerry didn't stay long in Vietnam. When Kerry got back, he campaigned against the war and Nixon's cronies went after him and Kerry said some things he regrets.

Bush has never said anything about it and was busy doing things that he now says he regrets as well.

That was all 30 years ago. Excepting the people who lost a father or brother or sister there, to people who are 20, 30 or in their early 40s, Vietnam is just a word for some country a war was fought in.

It's the folks in their 50s and 60s who get their panties all in a bundle about Vietnam. Hey, it was a horrible war. People were massacred in the North and South. And Cambodia was carpet bombed starting in 1970. And there was Mai Lai and the Tet Offensive. There were lots of horrible things to talk about on both sides.

But it was 30 years ago. Give it a rest. You can go shopping in South Vietnam right now. Jump on a plane and head out there for a vacation. Nobody's going to shoot at you.

I know some of you don't like Bush because he served in the National Guard. Yes, he didn't go to Vietnam. Yes, it looks like it pulled some kind of privilege not to serve and he could have served. But he could have been called up. From looking at the numbers, it looks like 10% of that generation had something to do with Vietnam at some point.

That means 90% did not. He was part of the 90%. It's not like he was called to serve and didn't go. Most people didn't and he was one of those. Nothing wrong with that.

And Kerry did serve in Vietnam. He wasn't even drafted, he volunteered. Kudos to him for volunteering to defend his country. It would be hard to say he doesn't love his country when he does something like that.

And now there are people saying he didn't earn his medals?

We all know what the story is with Kerry and upset vets. Lots of vets are angry with him because he came back and protested the war and said bad things about what was going on in Vietnam.

It has nothing to do with his medals.

But if you want to complain about something, complain about his protesting the war. Don't try to say he didn't earn his medals.

Don't try and knock his service in the war. You are degrading all soldiers when you do that. So, you say he got those medals and he didn't deserve them. So, did anyone deserve them? So, you say he was a bad soldier. Was everyone a bad soldier? Is the whole military just full of bitter angry people who skipped out of service?

So, you say he did war crimes in Vietnam and shot someone in the back? Huh? But you are mad that he said war crimes happened in Vietnam?

Doesn't Vietnam have enough issues associated with it already. Do you have to go an denegrate someone who actually volunteered and served?

We all know what it is. People have an axe to grind. But it doesn't go over well to people like me.

Step back a second. By knocking someones medals, you aren't making people look more favorably on vets. By knocking someone who volunteered and served, you aren't making anyone proud of the military.

Instead, you make everyone look like a bunch of self-obsessed, self-serving individuals hell bent on serving their own egos and self interests.

And I know you aren't.

Kerry volunteered to fight for his country. He could have died as many did. Those people I am forever grateful to and all sane Americans are grateful to.

We don't need to see someones service dragged through the mud. There is a lot of mud to go around if you want to start throwing. All war contains lots and lots of ugly in it.

And there is a war going on right now. There are American soldiers in a whole bunch of countries. But instead of focusing on today's issues and instead of focusing on real issues, a bunch of people want to focus on their personal axe to grind. And to top it off, an issue that denegrates their own service.

It is just sad. No matter if you are for Kerry or Bush, drop the Vietnam talk. If you served your country, many people are proud of you. Give it a rest. Focus on what is going on today and what will happen tomorrow. Don't focus on 30 years ago. It is over, the fields have been replanted, the cities rebuilt and a new generation has been born.

And now, there is another war going on. By a new generation of soldiers. Right now, there's 100,000 soldiers sleeping in hovels in Iraq.

Maybe this whole Vietnam vet thing against Kerry is just a paid advertisement anyway and some vets have been sucked into it who have some personal axe to grind.

The only thing the ad did for me is make me feel sad. I felt sad for the loss of pride that people will feel for the people who served after seeing the ads. Kerry should be proud of serving in Vietnam. And Bush should not feel ashamed of his National Guard service. And all vetrans should be proud that they served, even if the war was screwed up and should be proud of their fellow vets.

But instead, all people will get from the ad is that anyone who earned medals in Vietnam probably didn't deserve them, Vietnam was again full of war crimes, the people were horrible and everyone is bitter even with each other.

Great. Just what everyone needs. More bad things to associate with Vietnam 30 years later.

We're proud of you. Let Kerry be proud of his service. Let Bush be proud of his.

Give it a rest.
[/img]

[DEL]

Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolutions of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;

Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people;

Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its continuing hostility toward, and willingness to attack, the United States, including by attempting in 1993 to assassinate former President Bush and by firing on many thousands of occasions on United States and Coalition Armed Forces engaged in enforcing the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council;

Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;

Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of American citizens;

there is more to the story.
I would offer to those that say america only go to war when we need to,WW1,Koera,Vietnam,Granda,Panama,Bosina

[XRepublican]

Well, you decided to quote some of the U.N. resolutions.

So where is the U.N. Security Council vote approving a resolution to use military force in Iraq for compliance?

Can't find it can you. The vote never happened because the other members of the Security Council, including France, Germany and Russia all stated they would Veto any such resolution.

Why?

Two reasons, first, they already had a deal with the Iraqi government to buy oil. Second, they knew no WMD or terrorist camps were located in Iraq.
_________________
Know Bush, Know War. No Bush, No War!

[Dabba55]

Q Nick: I totally get what you are saying. I'd like to address one thing, quite apart from which of these men should be President, and that is the concept of military service. You say you have "no problem with Afghanistan." I take that to mean that you think the Taliban regime which was sponsoring Bin Laden, the training camps which were pumping out thousands of killers, were a worthy target for us to take out in self-defense. Most Americans would agree. But that means asking the men and women of our armed forces to go over there and do it. Do you know how many have died in Afghanistan? How many have been maimed, disabled or otherwise traumatized in service of this worthy mission? Thing is, the code of conduct, heroic action--the stuff that translates to what you and me see as a "medal"--is something far more important to them than a ribbon and brass. And to mess with that, to lie about it, to misrepresent it, goes to the heart of things like the phrase, "Semper Fi"...It is a serious, serious lapse of ethics to ASK for a medal one hasn't earned. That goes to a person's integrity, personal honesty. And to counter with, well, Bush lied about this, or misled about that, skirts the issue of Kerry. It is fundamentally dishonorable to brag about a decoration one didn't earn...And to object to this doesn't dishonor other vets...Quite the contrary. Moreover, it's not Kerry's protest against the war, it's the fact that he slandered his "band of brothers", some of whom were--as he spoke--being subjected to the worst kind of torture as POWs, and who later told of how demoralizing it was to have their torturers playing Kerry's war crimes accusations to them. This is not simply vets with an ax to grind. This is fundamental stuff.

[Tad Belknap]

[76406]

I believe this site and the swift veterans are reacting to Sen. Kerry's constant pounding of the "I was in Vietnam" drum. If he had just let his service speak for itself, they would have let it lie.

But all we hear from him and his minions is Vietnam, silver star, over and over.

If service and wounds were the ne plus ultra of fitness for office, Kerry was campaigning for Dole in '98, right?

The attempted suppression, though, is much more revealing. This is supposed to be the party of free speech, right? Let every voice be heard?

Riiiight...

[brad]

[carpro]

Simplistic viewpoint by Q nick. Probable Kerry voter all the way.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

[stupson]

Wow, for no military experience, what a genius clairvoyant military expert you are!! In 5 minutes on Google you know more than our CIA, British MI6, the Pentagon’s DIA, Russia’s Putin, Egypt’s Mubarack, and the King of Jordan. Everybody is an idiot, ‘cept you. Oh, we get it now, all GW has to do is come up with something to occupy his time and these goods folks manufacture intelligence reports to support it. You need to lay off the Stephen King novels.

Vietnam may only be “a word for some country we fought” in to you and your self-centered ilk. For those us who were “in country” and watched a buddy die or stared at the mangled goop that seconds before was a friend’s body it is something way beyond your infantile comprehension. We have a dog in this hunt…you don’t. By the way, I don’t wear “panties.”

You show total ignorance of what is important. Medals do not make the man. Character and honor do. Any Officer putting himself in for an award is beyond cheap and vile.

Should you choose to accurately inform yourself, it is not difficult. Read the quotes and articles posted on this website, then go to www.humanevents.com and read the free advance chapter of Unfit for Command. There you will learn the plain truth about Kerry’s cowardice, self-promotion, and deceit. Fail to do this, and you will remain unencumbered by the facts.

“Kerry volunteered for Vietnam.” You omit his request for a year’s deferment to go to Paris. You omit him asking for the least dangerous kind of boat service. When the mission changed to combat, you omit his repeated whining about not volunteering for dangerous duty so he could avoid it.

I choose to ignore the remainder of your prattle. Except, the part where you, who never has worn the uniform, cynically criticize warriors truthfully pointing out at rotten apple who defecated the bed.

The best indicator of the future is the past. That’s why these honorable men speak the truth about the traitor Kerry.

Stu Upson
New Bern, NC

[Marine4life]

Moderators Kerry has sent in the trolls, get the spray. They are trying to swamp the site don't respond. Let the moderators get them out of here. Semper Fi.
_________________
Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes.

[thank-u-vets]

[Q Nick]

[Scott]

If it's a distraction, it's a distraction of John Kerry's making; he'd rather be judged on his Vietnam record than his Senate record.

And by the way, did you know he was a prosecutor, and was Mike Dukakis' Lietenant Governor?

If he talks about it, it's fair game as far as I'm concerned.
_________________
Bye bye, Boston Straggler!

[LewWaters]

[Navy_Navy_Navy]