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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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 Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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XRepub, if you don't like the way the forum is run, please feel free to leave. No one is making you stay. It would seem you would be more comfortable back on DU.
As for "I have been censored," wah, wah, wah. Do try to act like an adult, if you decide to stay. 
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Clark County Conservative |
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jack white
Seaman
Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| XRepublican (that's not transparent, is it?) is honest in one regard. He freely displays the visceral hatred the Democrats have towards the military and veterans. If SBVT has done anything, it has unmasked the fraud that was perpetrated on the American public at the Democratic convention. Those delegates were exactly like X but got hot doses of Valium. It has worn off now. |
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Q Nick
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: For the Trolls and Kerry Suck Ups |
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| Grampa wrote: | Want to see what a real leader does? GO read Steel my Soldiers Heart by Col Hackworth. He has eight PH and they had to DRAG him away from his command.
Being a vet, I know that when someone comes around showing off his medals and bragging about his service, you can count on it being phony. Guys who have really been in the sh*t don't brag about it. There it is.
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Hackworth is a great man.
Read what he has to say about the issue.
Let me quote:
"But I do think that Kerry's Purple Heart wouldn't be considered problematic if he weren't a presidential candidate. The grousers, to a man, seem to be simply passing on secondhand bilge that they ought to stow in their sea bags and lay off.
The Purple Heart deserves less petty quantifying and more respect.
No one should play politics with any warrior's wounds."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-06-15-hackman_x.htm
And that group of "grousers" includes you, Grampa. Please quit disrespecting the people who served their country. |
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Marine4life
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 591
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Don't go away mad just go away "Q-Ididn'tserve" and barely old enough to vote.
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Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes. |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Quite an intersting phenomemon, Q Nick. PH recipients can be disparged and ridiculed, so long as it is the left doing so. Veterans can be wrongfully accused of war crimes and baby killings and such, as long as it is Kerry doing so. Bragging that 4 months in a war zone and walking away with more medlas than many who served a full tour is okay, as long as it suits the left. But, any who question those claims are immediately attacked with a vengance.
If those on the left really believed in "No one should play politics with any warrior's wounds," they wouldn't be engaging in the personal attacks against the SBVT.
They might even encourage Kerry to allow the release his full military record instead of atacking the members.
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Clark County Conservative |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Marine4life wrote: | | Sorry Lew I see you up and running. Top of the morning to ya. We got to get Navy an alarm clock, just kidding Navy if you are here top of the morning to you too. Semper Fi. |
Sorry I wasn't here for ya, M4L. 
Stayed up late with the newest sailor in the house - he's home on leave and didn't get in until midnight and we stayed up until o-dark-thirty. 
But, Lew did a great job and the mess is pretty much all mopped up. BZ's, Lew!
We have a couple of new mods to bring aboard today and maybe a couple more after that.
Boy, you can tell that the Swifts really have these guys running scared, can't ya?
Keep it up, guys -you did great with the DU and VFK spews!
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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wednesdaychild
PO3
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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I am some what surprised the left has called their attack dogs on so quickly. They really must be afraid of what the vets have to say. Kudo's to Fox and Sean Hanity for their help, and also i saw Van on Fox and Freinds Friday AM shortly before 9AM. I thought he was treated with respect and looked good.
I have not been able to garner from the posts if the ad is getting played.
I am very unhappy with O'Reily, and sent him a polite but strong response to his reaction. He totally got it wrong. Hoping he will read some of the e-mails. He said the vets could come on, but man, u know O'reily, he can be brutal.
wednesday ,a civillian, but on your side, old enough to remember Vietnam and jane fonda
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"...for the good of believing in life after birth..."
Jim Steinman |
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Grampa
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Eureka, CA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: For the Trolls and Kerry Suck Ups |
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| Q Nick wrote: | | Grampa wrote: | Want to see what a real leader does? GO read Steel my Soldiers Heart by Col Hackworth. He has eight PH and they had to DRAG him away from his command.
Being a vet, I know that when someone comes around showing off his medals and bragging about his service, you can count on it being phony. Guys who have really been in the sh*t don't brag about it. There it is.
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Hackworth is a great man.
Read what he has to say about the issue.
Let me quote:
"But I do think that Kerry's Purple Heart wouldn't be considered problematic if he weren't a presidential candidate. The grousers, to a man, seem to be simply passing on secondhand bilge that they ought to stow in their sea bags and lay off.
The Purple Heart deserves less petty quantifying and more respect.
No one should play politics with any warrior's wounds."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-06-15-hackman_x.htm
And that group of "grousers" includes you, Grampa. Please quit disrespecting the people who served their country. |
When the left quits disparaging veterans of the other party, I'll quit pointing out the truth about theirs.
Until then, lock and load.
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Iraqi Freedom 2003-2004. We won't take any of that 1960s crap when We come home! |
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joppa
Former Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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What is a troll?
My 2 cents worth. I feel Kerry should release all of his military records. I also feel all the Vets who participated in the Ad should also release all of their military records. If Kerry is under question then the people who made the claims against Kerry should also be under question. This is the only fair way to handle this mess. You question Kerry's "purple hearts" and other medals he got then your medals and "purple hearts" should also be questioned.
I don't believe anything I see in a political Ad or on Tv or hear on the Radio. Both parties are spinning like mad. No one tells me how I should think, feel or act. I listen, I observe, I do my own independant research then I come to my own conclusions. I have looked at the military records Kerry has made available. I cannot see one negative comment. All his commander's left him extremely positive reports.
This is becoming a can of worms where people's reputations are at stake. I always have to ask myself-is it true, is it honorable? As a child I was taught if a person points a finger at you then 2 fingers are pointing back at him.
I am not a child anymore . I do not need to be convinced of anything. I have been around the block a few times. What makes my life worthwhile is my integrity, my honesty and I will not compromise on these values- No election, no political party , no amount of money is worth me sacrificing my values.
If Kerry lied and misrepresented his record then he needs to take himself out of the presidential race, if the swiftboatveterans for truth lied then they need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law...Period
I will post again when more is disclosed and then I make an intelligent decision based on the information. Take care Men
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Seeking theTruth...as long as it fits my pre-conceived notions |
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Q Nick
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: | | Quite an intersting phenomemon, Q Nick. PH recipients can be disparged and ridiculed, so long as it is the left doing so. Veterans can be wrongfully accused of war crimes and baby killings and such, as long as it is Kerry doing so. Bragging that 4 months in a war zone and walking away with more medlas than many who served a full tour is okay, as long as it suits the left. But, any who question those claims are immediately attacked with a vengance. |
Purple Heart recipients should never be disparaged or ridiculed.
And I don't see Kerry spouting that veterans are baby killers.
He spoke on the subject of war crimes in Vietnam in 1971:
http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html
Here is what he said:
"I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....
They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."
But if you want to go back there. If you want to dig it up. I guess you just want to ignore Lt. William Calley and Capt. Ernest Medina.
I know a bit of history. And before you say they were "framed" why don't you see their own interview from 1969 with Mike Wallace where they were unrepentant of their actions at My Lai.
They aren't the whole military. But they represent some who served.
There are bad soldiers in the military. Not all of them are good. That doesn't mean all soldiers are bad. There are good and bad people all over the world.
The good folks in the military know that what Calley did was wrong. And they know he doesn't represent the whole military or a majority of the military. He represents a subset. And the good folks know he needed to be punished for his actions. Those soldiers spoke out about his actions.
Take Col. Hackworth. A name people on this board like to promote when trashing Kerry.
Unlike some of the people here, Hackworth knows what Semper Fi means.
Here is what he says about Vietnam and atrocities:
http://www.hackworth.com/01may01.html
"Another reason was based on my almost five years in Vietnam, where, during that shameful war, there were thousands of such atrocities. My parachute battalion's first big "kill" in 1965 was a night ambush at An Khe that destroyed a tribal family who hadn't gotten the word about the curfew. The draftee unit I skippered in 1969 -- as I've recently discovered while doing interviews for a new book -- had at least a dozen such horrors. Most were reported at the time as "enemy killed." Thirty-two years later, the participants say: It was the easy way out; we couldn't handle the shame; the command was constantly pushing the body-count figure.
Everywhere our young men fought in Vietnam, where there were civilians, there was carnage. Especially in the Mekong Delta -- where Kerrey's commandos were hunting and being hunted by an armed enemy who was everywhere."
I guess to you Hackworth is just a two bit leftie as well. Is he spouting lies?
Kerry didn't denegrate the people he served with. He said people reported war crimes. Sorry, that is the truth.
Maybe it needs to be explained to you. That doesn't mean all Vietnam vets are bad. Some were. Just like some non-veterans are bad.
Go ahead an question his claims. Question his medals. Say he was involved with war crimes himself.
But your not making yourself or veterans look any better. It was 30 years ago. Give it a rest.
To everyone, including me, you are just stuck in the past with an axe to grind and you will say and believe anything to support your opinion, not matter what the facts.
I am proud of John Kerry's service. I am proud of George Bush's service. And for anyone who served, I am proud of your service.
I am very proud of the soldiers who stood up and reported atrocities when they found them. That is difficult to do but that is the heart of what we fight for. For liberty and justice for all.
I am not proud of Calley and his ilk.
And I am not proud of your denegrating those who have served as you are doing now. That is just sad.
Can you understand the difference. Maybe not. |
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Grampa
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Eureka, CA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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At least Hack can differentiate between a horrid mistake and what John Kerry called a deliberate policy condoned and encouraged by the chain of command.
So can we here. Which is precisely why we think so little of John Kerry; he may have committed deliberate war crimes but these guys didn't. He is parading around as a "war hero" when there are valid questions about his veracity and service. John Kerry makes my BS detector go off the scale.
Your position that we have to close ranks with and refrain from criticizing someone we consider a fraud and a liar is BS.
If one of the incompetent idiot LTs we had over in Iraq was trying to run for office and parading himself around as a hero I would be saying the same thing these guys are.
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Iraqi Freedom 2003-2004. We won't take any of that 1960s crap when We come home! |
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You Bic?
Ensign
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 55
Location: North Florida
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Kerry in 1971 said that the USA(armed forces) were "murdering" 200,000 Vietnamese every year. Note that he used the term "murder" not "killed". With this blood libel, he falsely slandered the Vietnam Vet as a mass murderer.
He said this in testimony under oath before Congress. That is a blood libel and is part of the reason some VN vets were mocked and abused by some Americans when they returned home.
Now that being an VN Vet is a political plus, Kerry is embracing his "band of brothers" where as 30 years ago he was painting them as mass murderers.
Yet in 92 he made a speech in the Senate defending Clinton who was DRAFTED and refused to serve, piously preaching that wether anyone served or did not serve or where or how they served was irrelevant to political office!
The man is a pompous jerk, showboating his VN Vet status now, said it didnot matter in 92, and denegrated it in 71.
I will let these brown water Navy vets speak about his conduct in country, but what he did afterwards when he hung out with Hanoi Jane speaks for itself. |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Kerry spoke many times back then, about war crimes being committed on a "day to day" basis by the military there, with full knowledge of higher ups.
You mention My Lai as an example of atrocities committed. Yes, it did happen, but it wasn't covered up. In fact, you seem to fail realize how that incident was even stopped.
Do you realize it was an American Helicopter pilot who sat his helicopter down between the handful of soldiers and the innocent civilians? If condoned by higher ups, as Kerry claimed, why did that brave flight crew risk their lives to stop what was going on?
Odd too that we never hear the left discussing what happened shortly before that in Hue.
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Clark County Conservative |
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Bill Levinson
Seaman
Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 184
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: For the Trolls and Kerry Suck Ups |
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| Q Nick wrote: |
Hackworth is a great man.
Read what he has to say about the issue.
Let me quote:
"But I do think that Kerry's Purple Heart wouldn't be considered problematic if he weren't a presidential candidate. The grousers, to a man, seem to be simply passing on secondhand bilge that they ought to stow in their sea bags and lay off.
The Purple Heart deserves less petty quantifying and more respect.
No one should play politics with any warrior's wounds."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-06-15-hackman_x.htm
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I agree. I am not going to quibble over the severity or non-severity of Kerry's injuries during the war. No one can take away the fact that he was close enough to the enemy to qualify for the PH.
BUT we can very legitimately argue that Kerry lost his right to these medals when the threw them over the fence (or are they now someone else's medals, Mr. Kerry?). We can also point out how he piddled all over his own honor when he broad-brushed his fellow vets as war criminals when he got home.
He also admitted to committing war crimes himself, which would make him America's Kurt Waldheim if he got elected. (Actually, I don't think it was alleged that Waldheim ever killed anyone, which makes Kerry even worse.) http://www.stentorian.com/politics/genghis.html for Genghis John Kerry.
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--Bill
http://www.stentorian.com/politics/kerry Growing dossier on John Kerry's lack of character, ethics, and integrity. Free leaflets, Election 2004 |
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inlikeflint
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 20
Location: KCMO
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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I like Joppa... I like his way of thinking.
I would have to believe that if the 201 files were opened and compared to each other, there could be another a whole new story.
If The Swiftvets are legit... the 201files will jive with what they say, and if not... then end of story.
Sombody call St Louis for pete's sake!
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