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MrJapan
PO1
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 465
Location: Chiba, Japan
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 Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:25 am Post subject: "Neocons' Illogical fear of Islam" |
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emphasis mine, of course
| Quote: | THE NEOCONS' FEAR OF ALLAH
By William Pfaff
PARIS - The argument that victory in Iraq is essential to block the threat of a new, nuclear-armed, transnational Muslim caliphate was a theme in U.S. President George W. Bush's Veterans' Day speech last month.
At the time, his warning against a possible "totalitarian Islamic empire that reaches from Indonesia to Spain" seemed a farrago of unattainable Islamist ambitions and al-Qaida's delusions, cobbled together by administration speechwriters to frighten Americans who are laggard in their support for Bush's war.
Elisabeth Bumiller recently reported in The New York Times that this argument about a presently nonexistent Islamic caliphateindeed a new and calculated propaganda theme, despite the obvious unlikelihood of Islamic world conquest. Officials say the public finds the word itself exotic and threatening.
Does anyone really believe that the jihadist terrorists now in Iraq, even if they controlled the country, could go on to overrun Southern Europe, most of the former Soviet Union and Muslim Asia - where most of the world's Muslims live? How?
Yet serious people, when emotionally committed to some cause, have proven themselves able and willing to say and believe many outrageous things. During the 1960s, the American government rationalized the war in Vietnam by saying that it blocked China (not Vietnam; Vietnam was thought a mere puppet of China's) from leading the "rural world" to conquest over the United States and the other industrial nations.
They had it straight from China's defense minister himself, Lin Piao. "The rural world (i.e., the underdeveloped nations) ... can provide the revolutionary bases from which the imperialists, the reactionaries, and the Communist revisionists, who have all set themselves against the peoples' war, will be swept like dust from the stage of history."
How was this to be done? China at the time possessed four destroyers, 10 frigates, a few submarines, some obsolete military aircraft and a very large peasant army incapable of being transported outside China. The other underdeveloped nations had even less.
Only divine intervention could have made China a threat to anyone except its immediate neighbors. Yet if you read Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara's budget testimony before Congress between 1965 and 1968 (when McNamara left government), you will find this threat presented - and received - with utter seriousness.
During the last few weeks, President Bush, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley, Gen. John Abizaid, Vice President Dick Cheney, and Eric Edelman, undersecretary of defense for policy, all have warned against an Islamic conquest "throughout the Middle East, (jeopardizing) legitimate governments in Europe, Africa and Asia." General Abizaid declared that "just as we had the opportunity to learn what the Nazis were going to do, from Hitler's words in 'Mein Kampf,' we need to learn what these people intend to do from their own words."
In some neoconservative circles, a revolt of Muslim immigrant majorities in Europe is predicted. It again must presuppose divine intervention to think that a European Muslim minority population, nowhere numbering more than a single-figure percentage of the overall population, could overthrow any European government.
The recent French riots had nothing to do with religion. They were about discrimination. There is great resentment of isolation, lack of opportunity and victimization by prejudice. However, all poll evidence says the majorities in European Muslim communities want integration - not the Taliban. They didn't leave home for that.
By any measure of common sense, Washington's warnings about a restored caliphate are calculated nonsense. Yet, as in the McNamara case, there are believers.
Credulity accompanies emotional and political engagement. The Wall Street Journal recently published (Dec. 13) an interview with the distinguished Princeton scholar Bernard Lewis, an authority on Islamic history.
He has supported the Iraq intervention from the start, but on what I would consider curious grounds for a historian. He told his interviewer that America need not "create" democracy in Iraq. "Our job is to remove obstacles and let them create their own. That is what we did in Germany, Italy and Japan, and it is what we should do in Iraq."
He is badly mistaken about Germany and Japan. Their "democratization" after 1945 was imposed by the Allies. Americans wrote Japan's postwar constitution. (Japanese still complain about the quality of the translation from English to Japanese.) Allied officials closely supervised government ministries for years after the war, as well as running large counterintelligence operations to discover residual Nazi and Japanese imperial sentiments. Indeed, an American military presence continues today in both countries, 60 years later. The Germans and Japanese had no choice but to "democratize."
Lewis compares the Islamic threat today with those of Hitler and Stalin. "We are much more threatened than we ever were by the Soviet Union. I would compare where we are now to Britain in 1940," he says, adding, "I wish I were as confident now as I was (during World War Two) of our final victory."
I find this incomprehensible in terms of the real political and military forces at work in the world today. However, more serious is the truly alarming evidence it provides of the political and cultural demoralization of today's American conservative elite. Can Lewis really believe American and Western Civilization so feeble? He may. I certainly don't.
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LINK
This guy has been getting on my nerves for quite awhile now.. IN the local paper, if Ted Rahl isn't being printed.. this yellow frenchi is...
Just thought I would bring him up in here so that others can join me in the irritation 
I personally think that he needs to put his yellow nose back into his own country's posterior and take care of his own cr*p before spewing trash at some other country that is actually proactive instead of reactive (and the reaction is always to turn and run waving the white flag)...
(would have put more emphasis but @ work and no time >.<)
MJ
edit* forgot to add his pic 
Last edited by MrJapan on Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:03 am; edited 4 times in total |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Does anyone really believe that the jihadist terrorists now in Iraq, even if they controlled the country, could go on to overrun Southern Europe, most of the former Soviet Union and Muslim Asia - where most of the world's Muslims live? |
Seems I remember reading somewhere that a little man with visions of word domination did nearly that back in the 1930s and 1940s. |
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Uisguex Jack
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 613
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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This guy is a complete moron.
The stated goal of re establishing a long non existent caliphate is openly stated by al queda operatives for a long, long time. I was aware when Clinton was bombing Serbs in Belgrade that we were aiding and abetting Muslim fundamentalists with this goal of a new caliphate.
How will they conquer Europe? As in Kosovo and most every where else they work, now Iraq..... first off you assassinate the police force or any one else insuring order to the society. After you kill enough police men and local leaders.... the smart cafers get the hell out of dodge.
Then you have someone like Sandy Berger or Richard Clark negotiate your new country into reality. |
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dusty
Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1264
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Just as he is wrong about the United States involvement in Vietman, which he states was to keep China from overrunning Asia but was instead to suppress the spread of Communism. China of course couldn't move their armies of 'peasants'. No? They seemed to have had no trouble keeping the V.C. supplied with whatever they needed.
And he is wrong about the threat from radical Islamics today. He is totally ignoring the fact that this is no longer 1942 and that it only takes a few people to do massive damage to a society and any country's infrastructure with the weapons available today.
This guy is what is known as a 'shill' for the Communists who would love nothing better than for the Islamic radicals to destroy the free world's economies and infrastructure.
And if the Islamic radicals think they will be in control once that is accomplished I have some bad news for them.
They haven't seen ruthless until they come up against Communist atheisists intent on world domination.
Dusty
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Left and Wrong are the opposite of Right! |
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MrJapan
PO1
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 465
Location: Chiba, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| dusty wrote: | Just as he is wrong about the United States involvement in Vietman, which he states was to keep China from overrunning Asia but was instead to suppress the spread of Communism. China of course couldn't move their armies of 'peasants'. No? They seemed to have had no trouble keeping the V.C. supplied with whatever they needed.
And he is wrong about the threat from radical Islamics today. He is totally ignoring the fact that this is no longer 1942 and that it only takes a few people to do massive damage to a society and any country's infrastructure with the weapons available today.
This guy is what is known as a 'shill' for the Communists who would love nothing better than for the Islamic radicals to destroy the free world's economies and infrastructure.
And if the Islamic radicals think they will be in control once that is accomplished I have some bad news for them.
They haven't seen ruthless until they come up against Communist atheisists intent on world domination.
Dusty |
I was thinking the same thing... I was hoping someone would clarify that for me, but I was also thinking that since I was too young to remember much about 'nam... that I could have missed something too.... I also thought that it was to prevent the spread of communism... as a matter of fact, I thought the war was actually between USSR and USA more than between the North and the South...
A lot to learn about this war (correct me if I'm wrong.. but it actually wasn't a war at all.. but a large battle)...
MJ |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Does anyone really believe that the jihadist terrorists now in Iraq, even if they controlled the country, could go on to overrun Southern Europe, most of the former Soviet Union and Muslim Asia - where most of the world's Muslims live? How? |
The how is easy.
They will do it incrementally, slowly and deliberately.
Here is
the muslim plan for world domination
1st: Small numbers of them will immigrate to their initial point of invasion (your country).
2nd: They will build mosques and businesses.
3rd: They will go to school locally.
4th: The will insist on removal of religious symbols from schools and anywhere else they can.
5th: They will have larger families than the rest of the population.
6th: They will change local laws to insure political correctness.
7th: They will want limited Sharia laws for their own communities.
8th: They will be elected to government posts
9th: They will extend muslim influence to non-muslims
10th: They will insist on Sharia for non-muslims
11th: In 50 years there will be more of them than the original population.
12th: They will outlaw non-muslim beliefs (they are now in charge because we let them in.)
13th: They will declare victory, because they took over bloodlessly.
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Swift Boats - Qui Nhon (12/69-4/70), Cat Lo (4/70-5/70), Vung Tau (5/70-12/71) |
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Uisguex Jack
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 613
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | They haven't seen ruthless until they come up against Communist atheisists intent on world domination. |
This is a certainty!
As for Buf/Jack's: | Quote: | | the muslim plan for world domination |
It looks like when the Muslim populace reaches about 20% they become restless, look at Kosovo, France and Sudan as recent examples. They start killing people with the aim of spreading 'the religeon of peace'
I could go on about Kosovo for about a week straight. |
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