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Schadow
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Joined: 30 Sep 2004
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Location: Huntsville, Alabama
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 Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:59 am Post subject: Take out a Taliban funeral? Dilemma with many facets |
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Much discussion today on the subject of a funeral attended by many, many Taliban in July. There was another unseen attendee - an armed Predator overhead. The request to fire on the gathering was denied because the location was near (surprise!) a cemetery.
The psyops people apparently felt that the wasting of so many would, on the one hand, be beneficial to our mission but, on the other hand, would create a huge PR hit equivalent to hitting a hornet's nest with a stick.
I can appreciate both viewpoints, but probably would have voted to pull the trigger. Any thoughts?
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Schadow
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Doll
Commander
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Like you Schadow I can appreciate both viewpoints, however, when did the terrorists ever care about following the rules of engagement? It really sickens me when I learn of all the missed opportunities.
If it were me, I would have pulled the trigger and taken the Court Marshalling. No doubt in my mind that that would have been the right thing to do.
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:09 am Post subject: |
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We are in a fight for our freedom and way of life, with people who have no respect for anyone's traditions except their own. I'd have hit them without any regrets.
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Schadow
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:11 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, this was a "Path to 9/11" moment. One wonders if Berger is back on the job. Public relations cuts in both directions. Attention to cultural sensitivity versus displaying softness of purpose. Either way you decide in such situations is bound to turn up the heat, but in taking them out, you've at least reduced their numbers.
We'll probably never know the extent of the decision process. Hamid Karzai may have been involved and felt his government, such as it is, would have come unglued over a strike.
Schadow
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mtboone
Founder
Joined: 10 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| BuffaloJack wrote: | | We are in a fight for our freedom and way of life, with people who have no respect for anyone's traditions except their own. I'd have hit them without any regrets. |
Who knows who these people are, a drone cannot identify the people and if they are friend or foe. I would want any one of you to tell me which individual is the Taliban or terroist. Again we have a leak in the Government, who disclosed this video, why and I do not have enough knowledge about who these people are and who is attending and what their perspective on this war is about to kill them.
Look at the video on Certainly Nothing Newsworthy and listen to the video. Are you taking their solemn word about this event?
Published by NBC and shown on CNN that is what I saw. Come on men and women, how do you know when this was and where it was taken or are you just going to take their word at first glance. You take a video from CNN and take it as the gospel, yea it may be true but no one knows at this time.
Murtha talked about the killings and yet no indictment has come down. Did you take that as the truth?
Remember, the news reported that Rove gave away Plame and how did that turn out? Did you take that as the truth?
This looks like a reprisal video by the Democrats that showed how Clinton did not take out Bin Laden from a predator during his time being side tracked with the Lewinski Blue Dress House and by a unknown source, and which is always convinent not matter which side brings up the source.
To kill over a 190 persons, not knowing who they are would have to be a complete war monger with no sense of value of life and that is not the normal military person.
To kill a person is not something that is in your fondest memories, much less to kill them all in mass at a funeral and not knowing they are the enemy.
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four-niner delta
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:12 am Post subject: |
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I would have had NO problem taking them out! I'm sorry to say, this is why we will lose this war! Both the Clinton admin AND the Bush admin just can't seem to pull the trigger. I blame Bush even more considering he is the one who has said that we will hunt these people down. AND just two days after the fifth anniversary of 9-11! We need to take the gloves off or we will be "toast"! According to the news today, Condie Rice AND Karzai have an agreement that we will not go after the Taliban in a cemetary or during a funeral. The political BS is unreal!
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noyesj
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:22 am Post subject: |
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What ever happen to shoot first and ask questions later?
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Doll
Commander
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:50 am Post subject: |
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The video is authentic. Fox News reported that this video was taken of the Terrorist Camp, al-Qaida and they knew scores of terrorists if not all were terrorists. The reason they did not pull the trigger, according to Fox News, as they would have in Iraq is because of some lame crap Karzi and our government agreed upon that would stipulate 'rules of acceptable engagement' for Karzi. If that had been in Iraq, cemetery or not--our military would have put them out.
I still stand by what I said-I would have wiped them OUT! No tears here.
Like noyesi said:
| Quote: | | What ever happen to shoot first and ask questions later? |
What about that? Following rules of engagement when you fight an enemy like these terrorists when at times you do not even know who your enemy is?
They did not care about collateral damage on 9/11 or during any other attack prior or after. We should? Oh yes, we are supposed to show we are above that and peaceful-set an example-paraphrasing Bush. In the meantime that example Bush says we must set is what caused 9/11 and that example will be what gets us all KILLED! 
As Michelle Malkin says, "BOO HOO FREAKING HOO!"
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LewWaters
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: |
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The sad part is that our President and our Troops have to worry about being PC and about PR while conducting a war against a ruthless enemy that could care less about either.
If they had hit the funeral and there was even one person not a member of Al Qaeda, or even the possiblity of one, our own lamestream media dn the left would be causing such distractions as to make it near impossible to win this war.
Roosevelt and Truman must be sighing big sighs of relief in their graves that they didn't have to prosecute their wars under such impossible conditions.
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Doll
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: | The sad part is that our President and our Troops have to worry about being PC and about PR while conducting a war against a ruthless enemy that could care less about either.
If they had hit the funeral and there was even one person not a member of Al Qaeda, or even the possiblity of one, our own lamestream media dn the left would be causing such distractions as to make it near impossible to win this war.
Roosevelt and Truman must be sighing big sighs of relief in their graves that they didn't have to prosecute their wars under such impossible conditions. |
Agreed Lew. I suppose now we should all thank the freaking left loones for making it nearly impossible to win this war anyways. Their taunts at Bush, at his admin, it is truly sad. The left has caused irreparable damage and continues to do so. When is enough-enough? My God! Do we need another 9/11 to get the left back on the same page with us? Truly this is INSANITY! Like you said in another post Lew, this is SUICIDAL!!!!! 
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shawa
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Joined: 03 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: |
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mtboone said
| Quote: | Look at the video on Certainly Nothing Newsworthy and listen to the video. Are you taking their solemn word about this event?
Published by NBC and shown on CNN that is what I saw. Come on men and women, how do you know when this was and where it was taken or are you just going to take their word at first glance. You take a video from CNN and take it as the gospel, yea it may be true but no one knows at this time. |
You are right, Terry.
Also, we don't have enough information to make a shoot or no shoot call from the comfort of our homes.
There could be other reasons (which cannot be made public) for not taking them out.
For all we know, we had spies or Afghan assets with members of this group who could lead us to bigger fish.
I would judge that the fire control officer knew more than we ever will.
What I would like to find out is just WHO gave this (classified??) video to CNN!!
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Doll
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: |
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I am a bit confused here. Shawa you and mtboone say there was not enough proof, but Fox News this very evening confirmed the authenticity of this, and also reported that they confirmed that this was the al-Qaida terror group at this funeral and that at the time this was taken it was believed UBL was at this funeral. As I said earlier they also confirmed that the reason they did not hit them was because of a 'rules of engagement' agreement between Karzi and our government, which only applies in Afghanistan. So who has this all wrong. CNN or Fox News?
Explain please?
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Anker-Klanker
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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I'd really advise everyone to slow down their judgments on this. Even if the golden opportunity was missed, there's nothing to be gained by feeling outrage - the opportunity won't be repeated.
I hate to be so cynical, but if you haven't noticed since 9/11 anniversary is behind us, the MSM has moved into full-court press in their parianship role of influencing the next election - dirty tricks, distortions, spinning, and outright lies are in abundance wherever you look. So since this was released by CNN I can't help but wonder how they thought its release was going to help the liberals and anti-war crowd (make no mistake, that is MSM's, and CNN's, agenda).
(Doll, I believe this was originally stated to be a Taliban crowd, not AQ - there are small but subtle differences. And I haven't heard anyone suggest that UBL was there; and if they did I'd not believe them because I don't see how anyone could possibly know.) |
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NortonPete
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Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 385
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| shawa wrote: | mtboone said
| Quote: | Look at the video on Certainly Nothing Newsworthy and listen to the video. Are you taking their solemn word about this event?
Published by NBC and shown on CNN that is what I saw. Come on men and women, how do you know when this was and where it was taken or are you just going to take their word at first glance. You take a video from CNN and take it as the gospel, yea it may be true but no one knows at this time. |
You are right, Terry.
Also, we don't have enough information to make a shoot or no shoot call from the comfort of our homes.
There could be other reasons (which cannot be made public) for not taking them out.
For all we know, we had spies or Afghan assets with members of this group who could lead us to bigger fish.
I would judge that the fire control officer knew more than we ever will.
What I would like to find out is just WHO gave this (classified??) video to CNN!! |
I agree with all of the above. |
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Schadow
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Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 936
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Anker-Klanker wrote: | | (..... And I haven't heard anyone suggest that UBL was there; and if they did I'd not believe them because I don't see how anyone could possibly know.) |
I can't imagine UBL coming down from Pakistan to attend a funeral, especially to mingle with ~200 people.
Schadow
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