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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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Location: Buffalo, New York
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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
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 Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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As it was quickly pointed out, Martin can't even get his head around what HE thinks "swiftboating" means.
As for me, I subscribe to the "they have theirs, we have ours" approach and am resigned to the fact that, perhaps, never the 'twain shall meet. |
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Schadow
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Location: Huntsville, Alabama
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Wikipedia's definition is a rather snarky one, cloaked in academic-sounding language, but obviously written by a leftie:
| Quote: | Swiftboating is American political jargon for an ad hominem attack against a public figure coordinated by an independent or pseudo-independent group, usually resulting in a benefit to an established political force.
This form of attack is controversial, easily repeatable, and difficult to verify or disprove because it is generally based on personal feelings or recollections. It frequently refers to a campaign that uses viral marketing techniques to sell the allegations. By using credible-sounding sources to make sensational and difficult-to-disprove accusations against an opponent, the campaign leverages media tendencies to focus on a controversial story.
The name comes from the Swift Vets and POWs for Truth organization's negative portrayal of 2004 Presidential candidate John Kerry's military service in Vietnam and subsequent antiwar activities. Although many of the charges were unverifiable, they were disseminated widely leading to swiftboating's reputation as a controversial but effective form of "smear campaign".
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The definition by Wiki is full of footnote callouts and linkables which I edited out for what clarity there is. The phrase "By using credible-sounding sources to make sensational and difficult-to-disprove accusations against an opponent, the campaign leverages media tendencies to focus on a controversial story." is telling. There was nothing "difficult to disprove" that could not have been cleared up but for Kerry's refusal to open his records to the light of day.
Schadow
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Me#1You#10
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Schadow wrote: | | Wikipedia's definition is a rather snarky one... |
So, change it...then be prepared for the rhetorical battle of your life.  |
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Schadow
Vice Admiral
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 936
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | Schadow wrote: | | Wikipedia's definition is a rather snarky one... |
So, change it...then be prepared for the rhetorical battle of your life. |
Not me. Life's too short as it is.
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republicanveteran
Commander
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 333
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:25 am Post subject: |
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There is nothing said by the SBFT organizers that have proven to be a lie.
However, there are several things Kerry said that have been proven to be a lie.
Just because the media does agree with us, that does not mean is a lie. |
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DanVCC
Ensign
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 55
Location: Lutherville, MD, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a draft of the definition of "swiftboating.:
SWIFTBOATING, vt, to make available to the general public the past actions of a person using verifiable sources such as but not limited to newspapers, magazines, video tapes, audio tapes, the Minutes of official bodies such as but not limited to the Minutes of the US House of Representatives and the Minutes of the US Senate featuring the subject person's words and deeds as recorded by the sources. |
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republicanveteran
Commander
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 333
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Great definition. |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:03 am Post subject: |
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To me swiftboating was, is and always shall be the act of cruising up the Ba Sac or any other Vietnamese river, canal or coastal area in a PCF.
The MSM can attribute any other meaning to it they like, but they've never been on a PCF and will never know the true meaning of swiftboating.
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Swift Boats - Qui Nhon (12/69-4/70), Cat Lo (4/70-5/70), Vung Tau (5/70-12/71) |
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mtboone
Founder
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 470
Location: Kansas City, MO.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| BuffaloJack wrote: | To me swiftboating was, is and always shall be the act of cruising up the Ba Sac or any other Vietnamese river, canal or coastal area in a PCF.
The MSM can attribute any other meaning to it they like, but they've never been on a PCF and will never know the true meaning of swiftboating. |
Buffalo Jack on that I agree with that statement.
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Terry Boone PCF 90
Qui Nhon 68-69 |
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DanVCC
Ensign
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 55
Location: Lutherville, MD, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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The operating meaning of "swiftboating" is a point well taken so add to my draft of the definition:
(2) the act of using a specially designed water craft to conduct military operations in shallow waterways, often in a combat environment. |
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rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| BuffaloJack wrote: | To me swiftboating was, is and always shall be the act of cruising up the
Ba Sac or any other Vietnamese river, canal or coastal area in a PCF. |
| DanVCC wrote: | The act of using a specially designed water craft to conduct military
operations in shallow waterways, often in a combat environment. |
 ..... 
 ..... 
..... Wow ... they were not all on the same boat! .....
. |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| rbshirley wrote: | | ..... Wow ... they were not all on the same boat! ...... |
That must be very significant. After all, it says so in...
| Wikipedia wrote: | Swift Vets and POWs for Truth
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No members of SBVT were aboard Kerry's boat during any of the incidents for which he was decorated.
Wikipedia |
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DanVCC
Ensign
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 55
Location: Lutherville, MD, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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The point my posts tried to make is that, in a debate, the sure way to get a loss is to allow your opponent to define words and terms to discredit your positions. Kerry, his friends and the MSM is defining "swiftboating" as something like, "lies and half truths directed at good people for political reasons."
It is up to the good guys to change that definition in the mind set of the general public. Failure to do so assures the eventual demise of the Swift Vets and POW's for Truth." |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| DanVCC wrote: | | It is up to the good guys to change that definition in the mind set of the general public. Failure to do so assures the eventual demise of the Swift Vets and POW's for Truth." |
Demise? Kerry has probably lost his last opportunity to fulfill his own, personally defined, RAISON D'ETRE. Think about what that means!
The "debate" was decided in Nov, '04, and reaffirmed last week with his '08 concession.
While I certainly can't speak for the SwiftVets and POWs, I'd wager they'd cede this rhetorical skirmish being waged by the already-vanquished (let's call them dead-enders) as a meager price to pay for the scope of the VICTORY they achieved...and it has LEGS!
I'm comfortable leaving the job of defining "swiftboat" to the historians and am confident the SVPT will emerge from that examination victorious as well.
In the interim, I'll devote my energies to furthering the values that they espoused, the carping of whining losers be damned. |
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