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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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I don't understand how these 2 Iranian ships managed to approach, board, and seize the Brits with the British frigate assumedly close-at-hand.
I have to conclude that the decision not to intervene came directly from Downing Street or in some type of ROE that precluded resistance.
With a world so enamoured of "deadlines"and "timetables", hopefully the Coalition's answer to this provocation contains one with teeth. |
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | I don't understand how these 2 Iranian ships managed to approach, board, and seize the Brits with the British frigate assumedly close-at-hand.
I have to conclude that the decision not to intervene came directly from Downing Street or in some type of ROE that precluded resistance.
With a world so enamoured of "deadlines"and "timetables", hopefully the Coalition's answer to this provocation contains one with teeth. |
Same thoughts. I was racking my brain over this earlier.
_________________
"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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AMOS
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 558
Location: IOWA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Enough already. In my opinion, the solution for the situation in Iran should involve noises; LOUD NOISES, accompanied by some damage.
But that's just me. |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Partial answer just provided on FNS. Apparently there was a contingent of armed Iranian military onboard the vessel already (interesting). They allegedly took the Brits prisoner after the vessel inspection had been completed. |
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Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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jumping to conclusions, one might suspect a 'sting' operation...fully intending to kidnap hostages for trade....the persian/arab weapon of choice!
but also sounds like a serious case of 'missing backup'! 'no man left behind' also AWOL here!...just gotta see openning up the ROE, not closing it down!
the planet loses more respect with every success the enemy/Kongress finds in its crumbs...while the rest of us whistle past the graveyard!
Count me in with AMOS!
Deuce |
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DLI78
PO3
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:16 am Post subject: |
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AMOS,
Just between you and me, it seems like we have a whole bunch of cruise missles and a couple of nukes getting all dusty and rusty. We outta use 'em before they go bad.
_________________
DLI 78
Army Linguist
1978-1986 |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Actually, I don't think cruise missiles and nukes are needed here. They might cause civilian casualties and I don't particularly want to hear the MSM whine about innocent lives and brinksmanship.
The Iranians do have a shiny new submarine that they've been doing maneuvers with for the past 4 or 5 weeks. It'd be a shame to put a torpedo into it. Sinking their sub would restrict the casualties to military only, so the MSM couldn't whine as loudly.
_________________
Swift Boats - Qui Nhon (12/69-4/70), Cat Lo (4/70-5/70), Vung Tau (5/70-12/71) |
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AMOS
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 558
Location: IOWA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Just do SOMETHING to get the attention of this mental midget. When my children (or dogs) misbehaved, I relied on making noise to get their attention. Simple story. Mebbe too simple, huh? |
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gmez2001
PO3
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject: Iran |
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Hope this administration doesn't pull a Jimmah on us,i.e.; hostage crisis in Iran-70's.
You've got 2 days Amandedijad
_________________
Tin Can Gunline Vietnam
2nd generation Navy |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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This story continues to take form...and the following, if true, suggests that there may well be increasing internal dissent within Iranian society at all levels, save for the Islamic radicals now in control.
I would imagine there is a tremendous campaign underway to foment and capitalize on this dissent, though we certainly won't be hearing about it in the daily news...
| Quote: | Report: Iran ordered abductions to avenge defections
SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Monday, March 26, 2007
LONDON — Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps launched a campaign against the U.S.-led coalition in response to the defection and detention of senior regime officials, according to a newspaper report.
Iranian sources said the IRGC abducted British sailors in Shatt Al Arab on March 23 to retaliate for the defection of senior Iranian officials and officers. They said IRGC has blamed Britain and the United States for the defections of senior members of the Quds Brigade.
"IRGC has been fuming over the recent defections and has been looking for ways to respond," an Iranian source said.
On Sunday, the London-based A-Sharq Al Awsat quoted a military source close to the Quds Brigade who said that Iran's Higher Defense Council convened in emergency session to discuss a report by Chief of Staff Gen. Hassan Fayrouz Abadi.
The Iranian report, relayed by Quds Brigade commander Brig. Gen. Qassim Suleimani, asserted that the defections have led to the unraveling of the Quds Brigade and IRGC network in Iraq. The report was said to have detailed the defections of the commander of the Quds force in Iraq, his assistant and three aides.
On March 23, IRGC captured 15 British sailors in two navy patrol boats in Shatt Al Arab, the waterway shared by Iran and Iraq. The Iranian military said the British vessels entered Iranian waters, denied by British Prime Minister Tony Blair on Sunday.
But the sources said IRGC planned the abduction in wake of the defection of major Iranian officials and commanders. They said IRGC obtained approval from Iran's Higher Defense Council and relayed the decision through the chain of command on March 18.
The Quds network was said to have been responsible for the supply of so-called Explosively Formed Penetrators to Shi'ite insurgents in Iraq. The U.S. military reported that incidents of EFPs, capable of penetrating the U.S.-origin M1A2 main battle tank, dropped significantly over the last month. On Monday, five U.S. soldiers were reported to have been killed by improvised explosive devices in Iraq.
A-Sharq Al Awsat said IRGC has planned to abduct British and U.S. military officers in Iraq. At that point, the IRGC would offer the return of the coalition officers for the Iranian defectors or detainees.
"It was then that instructions were issued to the units of the Guards and the Marine Base at Khurramshahr to implement the first part of the plan by laying siege and detaining one of the British Navy patrols charged with combating smuggling," the newspaper said.
The Iranian sources said the IRGC was stunned by the defections of senior officers. They said the military force has been accused of lax security by rivals in the mullah regime in Teheran.
In September 2006, an IRGC platoon infiltrated Iraq and attacked a joint Iraqi-U.S. force with rocket-propelled grenades and light weapons. A U.S. Army report said six Iraqi soldiers and police were missing after the attack in the Diyala province, some 115 kilometers east of Baghdad.
World Tribune |
While I'm confident I've probably read content from the World Tribune on occasion, until this article it hasn't really registered with me as a particularly noteworthy presence. I'll have to add it to my long list. |
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | This story continues to take form...and the following, if true, suggests that there may well be increasing internal dissent within Iranian society at all levels, save for the Islamic radicals now in control.
I would imagine there is a tremendous campaign underway to foment and capitalize on this dissent, though we certainly won't be hearing about it in the daily news...
| Quote: | Report: Iran ordered abductions to avenge defections
SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Monday, March 26, 2007
LONDON — Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps launched a campaign against the U.S.-led coalition in response to the defection and detention of senior regime officials, according to a newspaper report.
Iranian sources said the IRGC abducted British sailors in Shatt Al Arab on March 23 to retaliate for the defection of senior Iranian officials and officers. They said IRGC has blamed Britain and the United States for the defections of senior members of the Quds Brigade.
"IRGC has been fuming over the recent defections and has been looking for ways to respond," an Iranian source said.
On Sunday, the London-based A-Sharq Al Awsat quoted a military source close to the Quds Brigade who said that Iran's Higher Defense Council convened in emergency session to discuss a report by Chief of Staff Gen. Hassan Fayrouz Abadi.
The Iranian report, relayed by Quds Brigade commander Brig. Gen. Qassim Suleimani, asserted that the defections have led to the unraveling of the Quds Brigade and IRGC network in Iraq. The report was said to have detailed the defections of the commander of the Quds force in Iraq, his assistant and three aides.
On March 23, IRGC captured 15 British sailors in two navy patrol boats in Shatt Al Arab, the waterway shared by Iran and Iraq. The Iranian military said the British vessels entered Iranian waters, denied by British Prime Minister Tony Blair on Sunday.
But the sources said IRGC planned the abduction in wake of the defection of major Iranian officials and commanders. They said IRGC obtained approval from Iran's Higher Defense Council and relayed the decision through the chain of command on March 18.
The Quds network was said to have been responsible for the supply of so-called Explosively Formed Penetrators to Shi'ite insurgents in Iraq. The U.S. military reported that incidents of EFPs, capable of penetrating the U.S.-origin M1A2 main battle tank, dropped significantly over the last month. On Monday, five U.S. soldiers were reported to have been killed by improvised explosive devices in Iraq.
A-Sharq Al Awsat said IRGC has planned to abduct British and U.S. military officers in Iraq. At that point, the IRGC would offer the return of the coalition officers for the Iranian defectors or detainees.
"It was then that instructions were issued to the units of the Guards and the Marine Base at Khurramshahr to implement the first part of the plan by laying siege and detaining one of the British Navy patrols charged with combating smuggling," the newspaper said.
The Iranian sources said the IRGC was stunned by the defections of senior officers. They said the military force has been accused of lax security by rivals in the mullah regime in Teheran.
In September 2006, an IRGC platoon infiltrated Iraq and attacked a joint Iraqi-U.S. force with rocket-propelled grenades and light weapons. A U.S. Army report said six Iraqi soldiers and police were missing after the attack in the Diyala province, some 115 kilometers east of Baghdad.
World Tribune |
While I'm confident I've probably read content from the World Tribune on occasion, until this article it hasn't really registered with me as a particularly noteworthy presence. I'll have to add it to my long list. |
Hope you are right.
_________________
"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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noyesj
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 77
Location: n w washington (that is the state)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Jack;
I think it would be more fun to see us take their sub in tow.
_________________
noyesj USAF 1953-1959 |
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Bob51
Seaman
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 156
Location: Belfast
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: |
I have to conclude that the decision not to intervene came directly from Downing Street or in some type of ROE that precluded resistance.
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One analysis:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/newscomment.html?in_article_id=444830&in_page_id=1787
| Quote: | Why Iran needed to pick a fight with Britain
By Owen Matthews
We are a soft target, and Iran knows it. That is exactly why its unstable president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad chose to target British sailors for his latest attempt to blackmail the international community.
....
He has three very good reasons to continue stoking international tensions. The first is that every belligerent word from President Bush, every escalation - including the kidnapping of the British sailors - sends nervous tremors through the world's oil markets and pushes up the price of crude.
Iran, as one of the world's major oil exporters, has benefited greatly from sky-high prices. And Ahmadinejad badly needs the money to keep the Iranian people happy with massive spending. Oil prices, which had been steadily sagging over the winter, jumped to their highest since December as soon as the news of the Iranian seizure of the sailors broke.
The second reason why Ahmadinejad needs to pick a fight with Britain is to boost his flagging popularity. His government might be swimming in oil money, but he has done little to deliver on election promises to bring down unemployment and revitalise crumbling industries.
In December, voters dealt his supporters a crushing blow in local elections. The only way he can stay in power is to play up the threat of foreign enemies and cast himself as the champion of his country's interests against a hostile world.
But his biggest patriotic stunt, of course, has been his insistence on Iran's right to a nuclear programme.
While his own popularity might be flagging, polls show that 94 per cent of Iranians support their country's right to have atomic power. Yet his radical stance on nukes - including barring inspections by the International Atomic Energy Agency and boasting of uranium enrichment programmes - is starting to backfire.
Twice - in December and this week - the United Nations Security Council has voted unanimously to condemn Tehran's nuclear programme, and has imposed steadily tightening economic sanctions which threaten to paralyse Iran's banking and industry. Even Russia, which last year sold more than £500million of arms to Tehran and is building Iran's first nuclear reactor at Bushehr, backed the UN resolution.
Iran is fast running out of friends.
In the face of united international opposition, Ahmadinejad has few cards left to play.
Despite Tehran's hysterical accusation that the world community is waging 'psychological war on Iran', the UN's demands are actually rather reasonable. It explicitly supports Iran's right to a peaceful, civilian nuclear programme, as long as it submits to inspections and forgoes the right to enrich its own uranium.
And the European Union - led, ironically enough, by Britain - has offered a generous package of incentives if Iran complies, including normalised trade relations, foreign investment and freer travel for Iranians.
Instead, Ahmadinejad has chosen to revert to the revolutionary hooliganism of his student days.
But there is hope. Luckily for the British personnel held incommunicado in Tehran, Ahmadinejad is not the only centre of power in Iran's complex government hierarchy.
Moderate conservatives and reformers, who did so well in December's local elections, will realise the kidnapping will only increase international pressure on Iran to behave.
The ransoming of British sailors is the act of a desperate man who feels his power and popularity fast slipping away. His only hope for staying in office is to provoke aggression by Western powers.
Painful though it is to stand by while brave British service personnel are held prisoner, it would be a grave mistake to give him the satisfaction he seeks. |
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greasepaint
Seaman
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 177
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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I'm getting tired of this.
send the IRA to kill the
families of the Iranian leadership. |
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