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kate
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Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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 Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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whoa-- this was actually printed in the NY Times
| Quote: | July 30, 2007
Op-Ed Contributor
A War We Just Might Win
By MICHAEL E. O’HANLON and KENNETH M. POLLACK
Washington
VIEWED from Iraq, where we just spent eight days meeting with American and Iraqi military and civilian personnel, the political debate in Washington is surreal. The Bush administration has over four years lost essentially all credibility. Yet now the administration’s critics, in part as a result, seem unaware of the significant changes taking place.
Here is the most important thing Americans need to understand: We are finally getting somewhere in Iraq, at least in military terms. As two analysts who have harshly criticized the Bush administration’s miserable handling of Iraq, we were surprised by the gains we saw and the potential to produce not necessarily “victory” but a sustainable stability that both we and the Iraqis could live with.
After the furnace-like heat, the first thing you notice when you land in Baghdad is the morale of our troops. In previous trips to Iraq we often found American troops angry and frustrated — many sensed they had the wrong strategy, were using the wrong tactics and were risking their lives in pursuit of an approach that could not work.
Today, morale is high. The soldiers and marines told us they feel that they now have a superb commander in Gen. David Petraeus; they are confident in his strategy, they see real results, and they feel now they have the numbers needed to make a real difference.
Everywhere, Army and Marine units were focused on securing the Iraqi population, working with Iraqi security units, creating new political and economic arrangements at the local level and providing basic services — electricity, fuel, clean water and sanitation — to the people. Yet in each place, operations had been appropriately tailored to the specific needs of the community. As a result, civilian fatality rates are down roughly a third since the surge began — though they remain very high, underscoring how much more still needs to be done.
<>
In the end, the situation in Iraq remains grave. In particular, we still face huge hurdles on the political front. Iraqi politicians of all stripes continue to dawdle and maneuver for position against one another when major steps towards reconciliation — or at least accommodation — are needed. This cannot continue indefinitely. Otherwise, once we begin to downsize, important communities may not feel committed to the status quo, and Iraqi security forces may splinter along ethnic and religious lines.
How much longer should American troops keep fighting and dying to build a new Iraq while Iraqi leaders fail to do their part? And how much longer can we wear down our forces in this mission? These haunting questions underscore the reality that the surge cannot go on forever. But there is enough good happening on the battlefields of Iraq today that Congress should plan on sustaining the effort at least into 2008.
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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:38 am Post subject: |
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I couldn't get past this...
| Quote: | | ...we were surprised by the gains we saw and the potential to produce not necessarily “victory” but a sustainable stability that both we and the Iraqis could live with. |
A "sustainable stability" is not "victory"? It seems to me that President Bush has defined that as "Victory" since DAY 1! |
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dusty
Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1264
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:14 am Post subject: |
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That line got my attention too. These guys are giving some credit up but they sure don't want to let go of the 'spin' do they.
Dusty
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Left and Wrong are the opposite of Right! |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Kate and all...
Splitting this off as its own topic for now...more when I get a chance. |
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mtboone
Founder
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 470
Location: Kansas City, MO.
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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From that first Fox link:
| Quote: | | Democratic House Whip James Clyburn says a positive report from Iraq forces commander General David Petraeus to Congress in September would be — "a real problem for us." |
How sickening.
How frightening!
How utterly disgusting.
Speech fails me - there do not exist words of loathing strong enough against the type of thinking that allows someone to say such a thing out loud - even though we've known for some time that it's what most of them are thinking.
Because of my day job, I "hang out" with a bunch of idiot lib artists who all think GWB is the anti-Christ... and this is exactly how they think.
A victory for our country (and true hope for a free Iraq!) = trouble for Democrats.
:::insert about a dozen puke-y icons, here::::
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with you EJ.
It's too bad we can revoke the citizenship of some of the liberals.
It's too bad we don't have a banishment law also.
I'd love to see a few of them kicked out of the country that they refuse to defend.
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dusty
Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1264
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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A little tar and some feathers first would be appropriate.
Dusty
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Left and Wrong are the opposite of Right! |
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Harvuskong
Seaman
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| dusty wrote: | A little tar and some feathers first would be appropriate.
Dusty |
RIGHT ON TARGET!!!!  |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:09 am Post subject: |
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The congressman without a conscience disputes the authors of the NY Times article - seems that their report doesn't meet with his new withdrawal plan
| Quote: | Jul 31
Leading lawmaker dismisses US scholars' upbeat report on Iraq
A top Democratic lawmaker Tuesday dismissed the findings of two longtime Iraq war critics, who cited a dramatic improvement in the situation there following the infusion of thousands of additional US troops.
"I dismiss it at as rhetoric," said US Representative John Murtha, a former marine, congressional heavyweight on military matters, and outspoken Iraq War critic.
"I don't know where they were staying. I don't know what they saw. But I know this: that it's not getting better," Murtha said on CNN television.
"It's over-optimist. It's an illusion," the Pennsylvania lawmaker continued.
Independent Brookings Institution analysts Michael O'Hanlon and Kenneth Pollack, who often have criticized US Iraq policy, on Monday said they noted a marked improvement on their last visit earlier this month to the war-torn country.
<>
Meanwhile, the Democratic-led House of Representatives was due this week to hold more symbolic votes on bringing US troops home -- the latest in a string of unsuccessful attempts to dictate President George W. Bush's war strategy.
One of the measures, to be proposed Tuesday by Murtha as an amendment to be inserted into a defense spending bill, calls for US troops to start leaving Iraq within 60 days of enactment, with pullout being completed within a year.
"What we're trying to do is make sure the administration knows we're serious," Murtha told CNN.
"They've always disagreed with the deadline in the end, but the troops have to start coming home."
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more at breitbart.com
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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This article continues to reverberate, as well it should...
| Quote: | Defeatism Defeated?
By Thomas Sowell
August 01, 2007
If victory in Iraq was oversold at the outset, there are now signs that defeat is likewise being oversold today.
One of the earliest signs of this was that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has said that he could not wait for General David Petraeus' September report on conditions in Iraq but tried to get an immediate Congressional mandate to pull the troops out.
Having waited for years, why could he not wait until September for the report by the general who is actually on the ground in Iraq every day? Why was it necessary for politicians in Washington to declare the troop surge a failure from 8,000 miles away?
The most obvious answer is that Senator Reid feared that the surge would turn out not to be a failure -- and the Democrats had bet everything, including their chances in the 2008 elections, on an American defeat in Iraq.
Senator Reid had to pre-empt defeat before General Petraeus could report progress. The Majority Leader's failure to get the Senate to do that suggests that not enough others were convinced that declaring failure now was the right political strategy.
Real Clear Politics - cont'd |
| Quote: | The Dems Get Surprised on Iraq
By Jack Kelly
August 02, 2007
Rep. Nancy Boyda (D-KS) walked out of a hearing of the House Armed Services Committee because she couldn't stand to listen to what retired General Jack Keane, former vice chief of staff of the Army, was saying.
"There is only so much you can take until we in fact had to leave the room for a while...after so much frustration of having to listen to what we listened to," Ms. Boyda explained to reporters later.
What did Gen. Keane say to so upset Ms. Boyda? He'd visited contested neighborhoods in Baghdad in February, and again three months later:
"What you see is a stark contrast. All the schools are open. The markets are teeming with people...There is an attempt to provide essential services to the population where in '06 there were none."
"Those kinds of comments will in fact show up in the media and further divide this country instead of saying, here's the reality of the problem," Rep. Boyda said. "And people, we have to come together and deal with the reality of this issue."
It is difficult to say which is the more remarkable: that Ms. Boyda, whose military experience is zero, imagines she knows "the reality of this issue" better than does Gen. Keane; or that she is appalled by good news from Iraq.
Rep. Boyda's alarm doubtless deepened when she read in the New York Times Monday an op-ed by two prominent Democratic foreign policy analysts described Iraq as "a war we might just win."
Real Clear Politics - cont'd |
HT: Vets For Freedom |
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jalexson
PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | I couldn't get past this...
| Quote: | | ...we were surprised by the gains we saw and the potential to produce not necessarily “victory” but a sustainable stability that both we and the Iraqis could live with. |
A "sustainable stability" is not "victory"? It seems to me that President Bush has defined that as "Victory" since DAY 1! |
"Sustainable stability" may be the best that can be hoped for if by "victory" you mean total elimination of all violent groups in Iraq. We cannot do that in the U.S.. The federal government has been trying to get rid of the Mafia for the better part of a century, but some of the families continue to operate. They are simply not the threat they were back in old Chicago.
It took nearly a century to weaken the Ku Klux Klan in the south.
Current Iraqi politicians have no experience in government except what they have gotten since we overthrew Saddam Hussein. Even Hussein's supporters didn't get experience except in taking orders from Saddam. Those who looked like they might have independent leadership abilities were killed as potential threats against Saddam.
Americans, including President Bush, have too high of expectations of Iraqis and their ability to operate an effective government.
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