SwiftVets.com

[Mannequin]

I'm hoping somebody can explain this to me. Why do the reports of the Swfit Vets go against the reports of the vets who are supporting Kerry, such as J. Rassman? If both groups are decorated, highly respectable and honorable soldiers -- why would there be such disagreement between the accounts in which Kerry received his medals?

I don't think the pro-Kerry vets have an agenda. They appear to be very sincere when they recount the events that took place in 1969. Do any of you have a simple answer for this?

My theory is this: they don't want to cricitize Kerry because to them, that wouldn't be the right thing to do. They thought he was a good leader and so they want to support him. I think they're wrong, though. I think they're giving Kerry far more credit than he deserves. (Looking at the Fitrep reports, this confirms my position).

But it's just odd that the pro-Kerry veterans were as brave and honorable as the swift vets, and yet the stories don't match up.

Edited to add this: http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,128269,00.html

On the August 5th airing of Hannity and Colmes, Susan Estrich (guest host) asked Rassman if he were Democrat or Republican:

[Lily]

I don't think it matters whether Rassman is a democrat or a republican.We do know that Rassman did not serve with John Kerry and that he was not a member of his swiftboat crew. Rassman was a special forces soldier who was riding on another swiftboat when that boat hit a mine.Four soldiers including Rassman were thrown in the water. According to eyewitness accounts all swiftboats went to aid the men who were thrown in the water except one boat, the boat that was commanded by John Kerry which fled the scene.Three of the soldiers in the water were picked up by another swiftboat under enemy fire.Once enemy fire had ceased Kerry's boat returned to the scene and rescued Rassman.

[Mannequin]

So why do the reports conflict?

Also, I found this post which helps answer some of my questions, but I still wonder about other things.

[Bob Chamberlain]

Like you, Mannequin, I have questioned why Kerry's supportive crewmembers are lying. But I no longer have any question that they are lying. I have no real answers to the question. We may never have the real answers unless one of them succumbs to his conscience and tells us the inside story. But I do have some theories.

The quote below is taken from the same post you referenced. Clearly in this case, the Kerry campaign made an effort to convince a Vietnam veteran that his memory of events was wrong and to publicize the Kerry version of events. The middle paragraph of the quote is a bit complicated to read, so I will restructure it.

My restructured version:
Mr. Musgrave, 55, recounted in an interview (confirming an account he had given to the New York Sun) that he had been called by John Hurley (Kerry's veterans coordinator) who asked him to recant his (Musgrave's) claim that John Kerry had attended a Kansas City meeting of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. Hurley twice stated "I'd like you to refresh your memory" and added "And call that reporter back and say you were mistaken about John Kerry being there."

The original posted quote:
John Musgrave, a disabled ex-marine from Baldwin City, Kan., who told The Kansas City Star that Mr. Kerry was at the meeting, said he got a call from John Hurley, the Kerry campaign's veterans coordinator.

"He said, `I'd like you to refresh your memory,' "Mr. Musgrave, 55, recounted in an interview, confirming an account he had given to The New York Sun. "He said it twice. `And call that reporter back and say you were mistaken about John Kerry being there." [11]

The Kerry campaign no longer denies Sen. Kerry having attended the Kansas City meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and the only reason they no longer deny it is because of FBI evidence that placed him there.

End of the quote.

This clearly indicates that Kerry and company are pressuring veterans to remember things differently from the way they happened. And memories of events can get confused over time, particularly when those events took place under stress. Remember, these guys are just ordinary Joes like you and me. It could well be that their original memories of these events were different from what they now say. But they have been thrust into the national spotllight by the Democratic nominee for the presidency. And when this famous man and his high powered staff say "Now look at this report John Kerry wrote the day after the action. Don't you think that this report is accurate and your memories of that day are confused?" is it any wonder that they might truly doubt their own memories? And begin to "remember" things they way John Kerry says they happened?

That is theory number 1.

Theory number 2 is similar, but less understanding. These guys are ordinary Joes who are suddenly being wined and dined, flown around the country and treated with respect by important people. They are almost certainly being compensated for their time. Maybe they feel that telling a few whoppers is not too high a price to pay for this moment in the spotlight.

Theory number 3 takes this thought a step further. Has anyone taken a look at their bank accounts lately?

Contrast these thoughts to the realities the Swiftvets are facing. They started this campaign on their own initiative. John O'Neill has been doing this (largely alone it seems) for thirty years. And I am certain that at least the initial expenses were paid out of their own pockets. They are now being thrust into the national spotlight - and called liars by the media. They are facing threats of lawsuits. The real question is not why are Kerry's men lying, it is where did the Swiftvets find the courage to embark on this crusade? They answer is obvious. They have been men of courage and honor all their lives. Thank God for them.

[ASPB]

Medalgate!

If any of you are wondering why 5 of Kerry’s “Band of Brother” are supporting him I offer the following:

Several days after the February 28, 1969 action, Vice Admiral Elmo R. Zumwalt, Jr. flew to An Thoi, South Vietnam, where he pinned the Silver Star on Kerry's chest. All records indicate the award ceremony took place on March 6th.

"In addition to Kerry's Silver Star, PCF-94's performance on February 28 also earned Bronze Stars for Tommy Belodeau and Mike Medeiros and Navy Commendation Medals with Combat V Devices for Del Sandusky, Fred Short, and Gene Thorson." - Douglas Brinkley, Tour of Duty, page 294.

The entire crew got personal medals for valor! No wonder Kerry got a Silver Star! He probably put himself in for the Navy Cross and Zummie had to downgrade it. Kerry was given two days leave (vacation for civilians) in Saigon after 28 Feb 1969. No, Kerry was not hospitalized as has been rumored.

What's funny is that Kerry was on the flight from Saigon with Zummie for the award ceremony. What was he doing in Saigon 2 days after the action? Pandering for medals? Methinks yes.

Kerry to the crew, "Hey, guys I'll put you "all" in for medals if you'll agree that this is what I did." This was the most decorated Swift boat in the war for a single action and it was nothing more than a minor firefight.

If this is not the most outrageous piece of creative writing I will ever see....I'll eat in my Black Beret!

It's no wonder why they all support him now. They were kids bought with medals then and can’t admit it now.

This is all supported by Brinkley’s reporting in “Tour of Duty”. Only difference….objective analysis.

RiverRat
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On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB

[Tom Poole]

I believe it's possible he paid or coerced them into such support. Perhaps it's time your private investigator checked these guys finances and weaknesses.
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'58 Airedale HMR(L)-261 VMO-2

[RocketFett]

I think the very few Vets that support kerry, are either wholey dishonest people like Kerry, or they just flatly refuse to believe something, no matter how many facts are put to them. I'd also question Rassman's views since he's being paid by the kerry campaign. The SWIFT Vets here and in the ad aren't getting squat, other than a lot of grief from the left wing kerry attack machine and the media wing of the democrat party.

I would ask though, of the vets supporting kerry, where are their sworn affidavits putting their money where their mouth is? What have they put on the line to defend kerry and their support for them? The guys here have put their personal freedom on the line if they're lying, and all the info and documentation from the war back up totally what these vets are saying against kerry. kerry is such a pathological liar, and compulsively never comes down solidly on an issue because he might have to change his mind when the wind changes direction, and that's the point. The affidavits signed by the SWIFT Vets outline it all so clearly and specifically, and kerry has no answer for all that. He's a liar. And the vets supporting kerry, which are so small in numbers compared to the SWIFT Vets against kerry, who are FOR the truth, just can't be believed. Rassman scares me because he doesn't even recognize the fact that while he was floating in the water after his boat was hit, kerry was cutting and running while Rassman was floating in the water taking fire, then after all the REAL work had been done and no more shots were being fired, Kerry breezed back on the scene and pulled Rassman out of the water, after kerry was certain that his lilly white butt was not in anymore real danger, and all that was left to shoot at were water buffalos and wounded teenage boys. He seems to be a great soldier when those are the only "threats" in the area. The numbers speak for themselves. The ones that support kerry are few and their stories do not match up with the documented military records. The Vets against kerry are LARGE in number, and include all his superior officers, and hundreds of others, and all of their stories jibe, with ZERO inconsistency, and tons of documented information from military records. kerry's own military records can't contradict what the SWIFT Vets say about him. Otherwise kerry would be showing up places with his records in hand and read from them to disprove the SWIFT Vets, but he can't do that, because he knows he's lying. I just hope and pray to God that enough American's will pull their heads out of the sand and not get sold kerry's stack of horse crap. One unethical immoral lying democrat lawyer as president is ENOUGH for one life time!

Know truth! No kerry!

[Tom Poole]

It seems obvious that someone should contact those few who support Kerry and ask them to state for the record (perhaps an affidavit) that they received nothing from Kerry or a minion. They also should be asked to state for the record that they have nothing in their past (or future) that could be exploited by Kerry or a minion. Even if they refuse, which they probably would, it would be telling, relative to the proof offered by swiftees.
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'58 Airedale HMR(L)-261 VMO-2