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Me#1You#10
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 Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: U.S. War Vets to Speak Publicly About War Crimes |
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I suppose it was inevitable, and the mirror-imaging of Kerry's treachery with the VVAW in '71 is in-your-face overt. I'm surprised they didn't label it "Dewey Canyon IV" with a pit-stop in Detroit. Nor should the source of the story surprise anyone.
Iraq era vets, BOHICA...
| Quote: | U.S. War Vets to Speak Publicly About War Crimes
Aaron Glantz
OneWorld US
Fri., Nov. 30, 2007
SAN FRANCISCO, Nov 29 (OneWorld) - U.S. war veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan have announced they're planning to descend on Washington, DC this March to testify about war crimes they committed or personally witnessed in Iraq.
"The war in Iraq is not covered to its potential because of how dangerous it is for reporters to cover it," said Liam Madden, a former Marine and member of the group Iraq Veterans Against the War. "That's left a lot of misconceptions in the minds of the American public about what the true nature of military occupation looks like."
Iraq Veterans Against the War argues that well-publicized incidents of American brutality like the Abu Ghraib prison scandal and the massacre of an entire family of Iraqis in the town of Haditha are not the isolated incidents perpetrated by "a few bad apples," as many politicians and military leaders have claimed. They are part of a pattern, the group says, of "an increasingly bloody occupation."
"This is our generation getting to tell history," Madden told OneWorld, "to ensure that the actual history gets told -- that it's not a sugar-coated, diluted version of what actually happened."
Iraq Veterans Against the War is calling the gathering a "Winter Soldier," named after a similar event organized by Vietnam veterans in 1971.
In 1971, over 100 members of Vietnam Veterans Against the War gathered in Detroit to share their stories with America. Atrocities like the My Lai massacre had ignited popular opposition to the war, but political and military leaders insisted that such crimes were isolated exceptions.
"Initially even the My Lai massacre was denied," notes Gerald Nicosia, whose book Home to War provides the most exhaustive history of the Vietnam veterans' movement.
"The U.S. military has traditionally denied these accusations based on the fact that 'this is a crazy soldier' or 'this is a malcontent' -- that you can't trust this person. And that is the reason that Vietnam Veterans Against the War did this unified presentation in Detriot in 1971.
"They brought together their bonafides and wore their medals and showed it was more than one or two or three malcontents. It was medal-winning, honored soldiers -- veterans in a group verifying what each other said to try to convince people that these charges cannot be denied. That people are doing these things as a matter of policy."
Nicosia says the 1971 "Winter Soldier" was roundly ignored by the mainstream media, but that it made an indelible imprint on those who were there.
Among those in attendance was 27-year-old Navy Lieutenant John Kerry, who had served on a Swift Boat in Vietnam. Three months after the hearings, Nicosia notes, Kerry took his case to Congress and spoke before a jammed Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Television cameras lined the walls, and veterans packed the seats.
"Many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia," Kerry told the Committee, describing the events of the "Winter Soldier" gathering.
"It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit -- the emotions in the room, and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do."
In one of the most famous antiwar speeches of the era, Kerry concluded: "Someone has to die so that President Nixon won't be -- and these are his words -- 'the first President to lose a war'. We are asking Americans to think about that, because how do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"
Nicosia says Americans and veterans find themselves in a similar situation today.
"The majority of the American people are very dissatisfied with the Iraq war now and would be happy to get out of it. But Americans are bred deep into their psyches to think of America as a good country and, I think, much harder than just the hurdle of getting troops out of Iraq, is to get Americans to realize the terrible things we do in the name of the United States."
http: //us.oneworld.net/article/view/155726/1/ |
note: link intentionally broken/me#1 |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Iraq era vets, BOHICA... wrote: | | "The majority of the American people are very dissatisfied with the Iraq war now and would be happy to get out of it. |
And the reason for this is a somewhat successful campaign of venom, spite and anti-American agenda by the MSM and Hollywood. This collection of miscreants and malcontents will always find a way to spout their lies and treachery, because the media will give a speaking platform to anyone who supports a leftist anti-American twist. Does anyone have reliable statistics on the percentage of veterans who belong to this group? I'll bet you find it in the fractional percent range. The greater majority of veterans are proud of their service.
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LewWaters
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Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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I expressed my opinion on this last night on my blog.
Winter Soldier Redux, Iraq and Afghanistan
Most telling to me was the line from the original article, "..much harder than just the hurdle of getting troops out of Iraq, is to get Americans to realize the terrible things we do in the name of the United States.”
This time, it is my hope that those who confess to war crimes, are prosecuted, just to clear their conscience, you know  
IVAW has a section of their site set up soliciting "testimony and evidence." 
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rhv5862
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 379
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:15 am Post subject: US War Vets speak publicly about War Crimes |
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Lee Waters wrote "It is my hope that those who confess to war crimes, are prosecuted just to clear their conscience",
I bet if they could be sure they would be prosecuted there would be no confessions. Their stories would be of the war crimes committed by others.
The story talks of Haditha, but neglects to mention most all charges have been dropped, and one vet has sued John Murtha over Muther's comments about the Haditha incident.
Any who do confess should not only be prosecuted, but do hard time.
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JN173
Commander
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 341
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:11 am Post subject: Re: US War Vets speak publicly about War Crimes |
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| rhv5862 wrote: | Their stories would be of the war crimes committed by others.
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I agree and that is pretty much what happened in the original "WSI".
A question for you legal types out there. If a party publicly states they have 1st hand knowledge of a alleged crime, can they not be forced by the authority having jurisdiction over said crime to provide sworn testimony and/or evidence in the matter or be charged with obstruction?
This time around I would like to see them forced to back up their bs! 
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streetsweeper95B
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Joined: 25 Nov 2004
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: |
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I am seriously hoping the Army, Marine & Navy investigation teams are standing ready to take these people down in the first place. Since our elected officials have nutted law enforcement, these clowns will probably get away with this.
Or are you guys gonna sit back, pontificate on blogs in the far off distance, hoping someone else deals with it? Contact elected officials, raise hell or better yet, help find out where these pukes are gonna have their sideshow?
I only ask because I do see a tendacy for people to sit back, ponificate & do nothing else.
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JN173
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| streetsweeper95B wrote: | | I am seriously hoping the Army, Marine & Navy investigation teams are standing ready to take these people down in the first place. |
I suspect that the military will be the only ones with jurisdiction in alleged war crimes and therefore the ones we need to bring pressure on to act.
| streetsweeper95B wrote: | | better yet, help find out where these pukes are gonna have their sideshow? |
I doubt there will be many of their freak shows at 70 degrees n Lat. , 154 degress W. Long. where I spend half my life, but if they show up you can count on me to be as disruptive as possible. 
| streetsweeper95B wrote: | | I only ask because I do see a tendacy for people to sit back, ponificate & do nothing else. |
Been there, done that, but not this time.
I don't think we can be very effective in countering them individually.
I believe we need to organize the effort to make them put up or shut up this time and if there is anyone else out there of like mind, I would to like to hear from or about them.
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RVN '65-'66 |
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Deuce
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Joined: 19 Mar 2005
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Location: FL
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd expect to see a similar ratio of Non-veteran nutjobs to veterans as was eventually shown for the 'winter soldiers'....ie, all spit and no polish. |
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Me#1You#10
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Deuce wrote: | | I'd expect to see a similar ratio of Non-veteran nutjobs to veterans as was eventually shown for the 'winter soldiers'....ie, all spit and no polish. |
I wouldn't count on that Deuce. Assuming they can produce legitimate veterans willing to publicly allege first-hand knowledge of "war crimes", I'm confident they're FULLY aware that "bona fides", THIS TIME, will be scrutinized to a fare-thee-well and the military judicial system will respond accordingly, quickly...and PUBLICLY.
I do not believe for a moment that IVAW anticipates the same deference granted to Kerry and the VVAW in '71. Those days, thank God, are OVER. Whether they can find fall guys whose "testimony" will stand up to the scrutiny or whose allegations even rise to the level of "war crimes" remains to be seen, but I can EASILY imagine that a few might be found who are willing to fall on their ideological swords alleging "war crimes"...at least for the propagandizing opportunity during the height of the presidential campaign.
As it is common knowledge among the left that such allegations would garner INSTANT support RIGHT NOW, I think it's a safe bet that they can't make a case...or it's just too early to maximize the anticipated propaganda. Hence this is "planned" for March.
My bet is lotsa allegations...ZERO affidavits...or substance...with a whole lotta hyperventilation. |
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streetsweeper95B
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Or to see them deserters & misfits play the "knock knock, knocking on Ft Levinworths door" game?......lol.
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LewWaters
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Whether they can find fall guys whose "testimony" will stand up to the scrutiny or whose allegations even rise to the level of "war crimes" remains to be seen |
The names Jesse MacBeth and Scott Beauchamp immediately come to mind. Even TNR is backing away from the wild claims of Beauchamp and MacBeth has been convicted.
Phony Veterans are boing sought and prosecuted, providing at least somewhat of a deterrent should some decide to copy the more colorful "witnesses" Kerry and VVAW used in '71.
My guess is this is designed to help the public to decide on nominating anti-war candidates for the upcoming 2008 elections.
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Navy wife
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Joined: 09 Aug 2004
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Location: Arlington, VA & Ft. Worth, TX
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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There was another thread on this topic on November 16th titled Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) and VVAW. At that time, I went on their website and copied something from it that made my skin crawl.
According to the questionaire they want the vets to fill out, one of the reasons they are doing this is " | Quote: | This investigation is designed to demonstrate that our policies (stated and unstated) are, in fact, genocidal (and illegal) in nature, i.e., the destruction of the Iraqi and Afghan people, culture, and infrastructure."
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There was also an evidence form [neither of these forms is there today. At least, I can not find them!] and I remember that they were more interested in topics that proved our government was to blame for everything and they were not interested in knowing names. You sure can not investigate very well if you do not know who was involved.
The Iraq Veterans for Freedom are the "good guys" and I'll bet they are rounding up folks to observe and watch. |
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streetsweeper95B
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Okie dokie JN173! Say, does the "173" indicate your Nam unit by chance? As in "The Herd"? How do you feel about making the trek to DC next March?
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JN173
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| streetsweeper95B wrote: | | Okie dokie JN173! Say, does the "173" indicate your Nam unit by chance? As in "The Herd"? How do you feel about making the trek to DC next March? |
Roger on the "Herd".
Hadn't thought about a trip to DC. Last time I was there was for the 'Kerry Lied' gathering. I assume you are referring to some possible counter protest. Have they actually set a date. I work 2 on & 2 off so it would have to fit my work schedule. (Can you believe anyone is still working at my age.) But otherwise it's s definite possibility.
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streetsweeper95B
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Wilco JN173. Wasn't paying attention to your signature line. Sorry big bro & Welcome home! (I feel like a dork now, lol) Welp, keep your eye on the forums, as things start falling in place HOPEFULLY a big turn out will occur in DC.
There isn't anything I'd love more than to bust 'em in progress of their lil meeting & detain some AWOL soldiers. I'm up for it.....What say you?
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