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JLO
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 1:59 am Post subject: Re: Correct links to both the FAKE photo and REAL photo |
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| Red_White_Blue wrote: | OK we almost have this resolved.
8027r.htm
Hope this clears it all up! |
Hey, thanks for getting the correct link to work at snopes, did not realize that the two had a little interchangeable glitch. You are correct sir - http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry.asp - is the REAL photo. (At least I hope THIS one I posted is the same as yours, LOL  ) |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| I saw that photo of Kerry in front of the Viet Cong flag and it was NOT obvious that it was photoshop'd. The online debate where I saw this didn't include the disclaimer that Vietnam Veterans Against Kerry put in the hyperlinked "fine print." It was inevitable that it would get passed around the internet as legitimate. |
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JLO
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Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 4:12 am Post subject: |
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[quote="sparky"]I'm not so sure that these are the same people behind that photoshopped sleazery. Did the perpetrator of that ever come forward?
Yes he did and he's been more than honest about it. His name is Registered. And he's quite an accomplished comedian when it comes to his photoshop skills.
Of course, that isn't his true name. Maybe folks who don't know the story could investigate if they wanted to. I doubt they'd find anything sinister.
It amazes me sometimes - that some folks can diss and toss - and yet, still don't know HOW in the world to SEARCH!
Good Lord. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | | I saw that photo of Kerry in front of the Viet Cong flag and it was NOT obvious that it was photoshop'd. The online debate where I saw this didn't include the disclaimer that Vietnam Veterans Against Kerry put in the hyperlinked "fine print." It was inevitable that it would get passed around the internet as legitimate. |
Ahahahah! It wasn't obvious that it was photoshopped??? With a black and white picture of Kerry in front of the colored VC flag?
You need some glasses, dude. 
It was more than obvious where the picture came from - anyone who's interested in this election has seen pictures of Kerry testifying before Congress. It was way more than obvious that it was intended to be allegorical.
Kerry MARCHED on Washington under that flag!
Kerry NEGOTIATED with the leaders of the Viet Cong as part of the "People's Peace Treaty!"
Associating him with the VC flag is very much apropos of what he stood for.
And years later, in his oh-so-VC-accommodating role of Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA affairs, Kerry again demonstrated more allegiance to the VC flag than he did to our own POW/MIA's and their families.
Yes, he absolutely belongs with that flag.
Even General Giap would agree. Didn't you read the news last week? On the occasion of the anniversary of the conquering of the South Vietnamese, General Giap reiterated his thanks to the American anti-war movement, without which winning the war would have been impossible.
This is much more real than the stupid photoshopped photo of Kerry and Fonda at the same podium, but, it appears that your little group here wants to keep a focus on the photos, so I think I'll keep the heat up on the REAL issues.
John Kerry's actions after Vietnam are unforgiveable. Supporting him is supporting what he has done and what he has done is lead a miserable movement that cost our country men, women, honor and pride. I don't know if his actions meet the legal criteria for "traitor," but they certainly meet the moral criteria for "traitor."
He spit on his band of brothers, trying to bring some of them back only when it was politically expedient to do so. Now just in case you've missed the point of these 400-500 people from the same Swifts community - most of the "band of brothers" are not buying his line.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother
Last edited by Navy_Navy_Navy on Sat May 08, 2004 6:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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reasonable
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | | I condemn the "photoshopping" of the picture of Kerry and Fonda at the same podium. It was a dirty trick, and I don't like dirty tricks on "our side." |
Hey wait a minute. Why would "our side" bother faking a Kerry-Fonda photo? The GOP didn't need it because the real one was already out there. If anyone had a motive it was the Dems, who needed to cushion the impact of the real photo.
Evidence for this - the fake is a composite made from two other photos that belonged to professional photojournalists. They knew what it was the moment they saw it, and lost no time leting everyone know they were pretty pissed off about people messing around with their property. And as you noted, it's obvious that it was photoshopped. That wasn't sloppy technique, it was intentional. Whoever did it wanted people to see right through it and recognize the fake.
What happened next was the Dems cried foul about the GOP "dirty trick". Meanwhile, everyone forgot that there was a real picture of John Kerry sitting near Hanoi Jane.
So they killed two birds. First they were able to neutralize the effect of the real photo, and as a bonus they could cast blame on the Republicans for cooking up the fake. As disinformation goes, it was a classic. |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 6:30 am Post subject: |
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From this site:
http://www.undergroundcop.com/kerry/
http://www.undergroundcop.com/kerry/kerry_vc.jpg
http://www.undergroundcop.com/kerry/k_arrest.jpg
Here's at least one rightwinger still trying to pass this off as legitimate. There are actually two photos on that website, maybe more, that are photoshopped.
There's nothing humorous about that site. Just another wingnut with a grudge. The big question is whether the author of that site realizes "how obvious" those fakes are. I doubt it. In fact, if the whole photoshop fraud hadn't been exposed, most of the people who hate Kerry would be defending that site.
As for your claims, I don't buy them. I don't buy the ones on the undergroundcop site either. It's just one of a long line of rightwing smears similar to what happened to McCain when it was rumoured that he had a black love child (his adopted child from Bangladesh).
This isn't about Kerry so much as it is about the anger you have for Vietnam protesters. On that point we disagree. I believe it was noble to have served; it was noble to have protested;but it was absolutely despicable to favor a war that you ducked out on.
"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well placed ... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units," Secretary of State Colin Powell wrote in his memoirs. "Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country." |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| reasonable wrote: |
So they killed two birds. First they were able to neutralize the effect of the real photo, and as a bonus they could cast blame on the Republicans for cooking up the fake. As disinformation goes, it was a classic. |
Geez....
Hello? Anybody home?
The creator of the bogus photo of Kerry & Fonda at the podium fessed up to it the day after it started making the rounds. He posted under the nick of "registered" on the Free Republic forum.
Again, here's the link to the thread.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1076946/posts |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | | This isn't about Kerry so much as it is about the anger you have for Vietnam protesters. On that point we disagree. I believe it was noble to have served; it was noble to have protested;but it was absolutely despicable to favor a war that you ducked out on. |
So, this isn't about whether the SBVFT have valid points to make with the American public... it's about your hatred you have for anyone who was able to "duck out" of a war that you disagreed with?
It's okay to elect Clinton who not only engineered a National Guard slot with his powerful connections but then sneaked out of that on CO status? (only to go smoke pot (but not inhale) in Europe)
But, it's not okay to elect a conservative who may have used student deferments or slots in the NG to evade going to Vietnam?
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 8:07 am Post subject: |
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It doesn't matter much that the bogus photoshopper "fessed up" since the photos are now in circulation and taken seriously. Not surprising when you consider the freaky stories people believe (love child, vince foster, mena, murder and mayhem)
Oh, but you guys condemn that site I linked to, right? (snicker, snicker, wink, wink)
Clinton had no powerful family connections. He did his best to avoid a war he considered immoral and that's quite honorable.
Ducking out of a war you believed others should fight is truly despicable and reprehensible. Whether I happen to oppose that war is immaterial. I do not support anyone in any war at any time who ducks out while believing others should die.
I can't believe anyone would try to defend this. Bush and Clinton did the same thing: tried to avoid fighting in Vietnam. The big difference is that Clinton didn't favor sending off *others* to fight. |
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Hen3
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 6
Location: Northwest Ohio
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | | I can't believe anyone would try to defend this. Bush and Clinton did the same thing: tried to avoid fighting in Vietnam. The big difference is that Clinton didn't favor sending off *others* to fight. |
Wow, you're spinning so fast I can't even see you!
No matter what you say, it will not disguise the fact that Kerry was a VC sympathizer who ultimately helped NV win the war and the only people who don't see that are dyed in the wool bleeding heart liberals.
Henry
_________________
I believe John F. (F for Fraud) Kerry to be a liar. |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Like I said elsewhere, this doesn't boil down to anyone's service record at all (on that count Bush, who couldn't even friggin show up for a war he supported is an utter failure) but it's about Kerry's protests.
And since most of the voting public believes, like I do, that protesting that war was acceptable, honorable and patriotic...especially after fighting in it, you're not going to get much electoral traction with the "he loves the VC and hates America" approach. For the most part, Kerry-haters have moved on to other approaches.
And protesting the war after serving is the complete opposite of failing to show up for a war you supported that others fight.
That's why your fellow Kerry-haters here are focused on silly and amusing claims that shrapnel only scratched his skin or that he didn't deserve his medals or that Kennedy arranged for phony medals. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | Like I said elsewhere, this doesn't boil down to anyone's service record at all (on that count Bush, who couldn't even friggin show up for a war he supported is an utter failure) but it's about Kerry's protests.
And since most of the voting public believes, like I do, that protesting that war was acceptable, honorable and patriotic...especially after fighting in it, you're not going to get much electoral traction with the "he loves the VC and hates America" approach. For the most part, Kerry-haters have moved on to other approaches.
And protesting the war after serving is the complete opposite of failing to show up for a war you supported that others fight.
That's why your fellow Kerry-haters here are focused on silly and amusing claims that shrapnel only scratched his skin or that he didn't deserve his medals or that Kennedy arranged for phony medals. |
You just keep saying saying it, sparky... someone will eventually fall for it.
Your insistence that service records don't matter is naive in this instance, at best.
Need more proof that he sided with the VC? Cause I got a stack of reading material for you if you do. Somehow, I think you're you're interested in anything more than endlessly repeating your pro-Kerry litany. Go ahead.
It isn't a matter of protesting the war. Lots of people did that without lying and without scheming to foist a big fraud like the Winter Soldier Investigation on people.
The validity of his medals isn't a very big point in the overall scheme of things.
The fact that he provided aid and comfort to the enemy is.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Your insistence that service records don't matter is naive in this instance, at best. |
Naive? Hardly. Realistic, I'd say. I say that because Bush's "service" records, which actually would reveal embarassments aren't an issue with conservatives here.
It's really just an effort to smear Kerry and create suspicion in the minds of the voters. And this is patently dishonest, in my opinion.
| Quote: | | Need more proof that he sided with the VC? Cause I got a stack of reading material for you if you do. Somehow, I think you're you're interested in anything more than endlessly repeating your pro-Kerry litany. Go ahead. |
I'm sure we have differing standards of proof. Like we probably do about the Vince Foster suicide or Clinton ordering murders or Clinton smuggling cocaine.
| Quote: | It isn't a matter of protesting the war. Lots of people did that without lying and without scheming to foist a big fraud like the Winter Soldier Investigation on people.
The validity of his medals isn't a very big point in the overall scheme of things.
The fact that he provided aid and comfort to the enemy is. |
There you have it. It's not about his service records. It's about trying to create suspicion regarding his service records in order to tarnish him. Why? Because you disagree with his activities after he got back from Vietnam.
We'll just have to "agree to disagree" on that one. I believe that he did the most patriotic thing he could have done. But this service records thing is just a red herring. |
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reasonable
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | | Here's at least one rightwinger still trying to pass this off as legitimate. There are actually two photos on that website, maybe more, that are photoshopped. |
The photo on the first link shows Fonda with Kerry sitting in the back. That's legit. I'm comparing that to the composite fake where Fonda was patched in as if she were standing next to Kerry. Nice try at obfuscation, but I wasn't talking about the other fake photos you turned up.
| Quote: | | This isn't about Kerry so much as it is about the anger you have for Vietnam protesters. |
Just how did you reach the conclusion that I have anger for Vietnam protesters? I'm fine with legitimate protesting, it's lying about Vietnam vets that gets me steamed, especially when the liar is speaking before a Congressional committee. |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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We have differing conceptions of protest and I'm not convinced that Kerry lied in his protests. Protest to me includes everything Kerry did during that time, including his testimony.
Btw, the Toledo Blade won a Pulitzer this year for its reporting on a coverup of army atrocities by Tiger Force of the 101st Airborne division. They were doing all that "ear necklace" and randomly shooting civilians and burning villages stuff.
This is truly remarkable journalism.
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=SRTIGERFORCE |
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