SwiftVets.com

carpro · Admin Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 1176 Location: Texas

[quote="academicanarchist"]They served honorably, and the facts show that a disproportionate number of African-Americans and Mexican-Americans served, when compared to their population. Many were poor.

The facts do not support your statement. I'm going to have to ask you to back up that statement. I'm afraid you have bought into one of the more prevalent myths about Vietnam.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

academicanarchist · Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 1:51 pm Post subject: To Carpo

Actually, the numbers do support my position. In the 1960s, for example, the African-American population was around 6% of the total population. The number of African-Americans who served in Viet Nam was much higher, and if I recall the numbers more than 10%. It is not a myth.

carpro · Admin Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 1176 Location: Texas

academicanarchist · Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 1:59 pm Post subject: To Carpo

I will tell you one thing that I do not like about the whole issue of military service, willingness to serve, etc. Remember back in 1992, when Bush, Sr. made the fact that Clinton had not served in Viet Nam an issue, and the assumption was that military service was the paramount factor in the ability to lead the country. However, if you look at what the founding fathers envisioned for this nation, it was not a militarized state, and the function of the president as commander in chief was not the primary prerequisite for serving as president. Eight years later, when his own son ran, the issue seems to have no longer been important. A little flip flopping there. Now that Kerry is running, and whether or not he willing enlisted is irrelevant, the fact is that he did serve and saw service in Viet Nam, is made an issue by a man I consider to be a coward, because he used his priviledged status to avoid going to Viet Nam. The fundamental question should be does a candidate have the ability to lead the country, and the answer to that in my opinion does not depend on his military service. I see this as a red herring issue. I have followed Bush for years, going back to his time as governor of Texas, and have seen many things about his demeanor and truthfulness, or lack thereof, to convince me that he is not fit to be a dog catcher. I have not looked closely at Kerry yet, and will do so once the campaign begins in the fall. The only decision that I have made is that Bush does not have what it takes.

carpro · Admin Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 1176 Location: Texas

Montana · Lt.Jg. Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 138 Location: Montana

Carpo partial quote:
[ In the process, he woke up a few vets who don't have fond memories of him.

So, here we are. I'll say this ,though. My own service has never been as appreciated by so many people openly stated as it has been during this debate.

An interesting observation Carpo. A real paradox.

Kerry´s style of constantly bringing up Vietnam (and revising
history) has stirred thousands of Vietnam Vets into action
(this website is one example). And, at the same time,
many on this website have thanked each other for their service
to their country. Something none of us got before.

By the way, have you heard how the returning Spanish troops are
describing their return to Madrid? Many are saying it´s
just like what Vietnam Vets experienced. Total indifference
by their fellow Spaniards.

What´s bothersome to many Vietnam Vets are the memories of
verbal abuse when they returned home in the 60´s
and 70´s, and now it seems to be creeping into discussions and
newspaper articles across the country again. Much of this is
because of Kerry´s background. Do you think we would
be discussing Vietnam, if the Democrats would have chosen
anyone else?

Montana

academicanarchist · Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 3:01 pm Post subject: Don't Know

I don't know if we would be discussing war service if somebody else had won the democratic nomination. I do not excuse how vets were treated in the 1960s nd 1970s, but the war did divide American society in a major way. Many people directed their anger over the war to the wrong people. Thirty years later we can reflect, and see how the treatment of vets was wrong. The people who should have been targeted were the policy makers, and not the people serving in the ranks.

mikest · PO2 Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 377

Greenhat · LCDR Joined: 09 May 2004 Posts: 405

mikest · PO2 Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 377

Fair enough. We all look alike.

waltjones · Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 1:26 pm Post subject: look alike?

Isn't that a racist comment? Laughing

_________________
Walt Jones (USMC, '65 - '69) It says much about the person who defends a man with no honor.

academicanarchist · Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 1:43 pm Post subject: To Carpo

Some years ago I used a U.S> History text in one of my classes that had the break-down from U.S. Dept. of Defense data on who served in Viet Nam.

Greenhat · LCDR Joined: 09 May 2004 Posts: 405

academicanarchist · Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 2:17 pm Post subject: Horses Mouth

I have sent an e-mail inquiry to the department of defense, to see if they have the data on servicemen in Viet Nam. If I hear back from them, I will let everybody know. What I recall was a graph showing the breakdown of who served in Viet Nam.

waltjones · Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 7:29 pm Post subject: re: horse's mouth

academicanarchist:

I'll show you mine if you show me yours? Thatisall ...
_________________
Walt Jones (USMC, '65 - '69) It says much about the person who defends a man with no honor.