SwiftVets.com

[NavyBrat]

Karen-

There are no magic wands here. You will have to make the choice to
know your country is doing the right thing or not. You will have to make the positive choices to help yourself understand so you can help your friend and others if you choose to or not. I'm not trying to be harsh or unsympathetic. I've lost a son myself to a serious illness, so I do know the pain of losing a loved one. My heart goes out to your friend. But YOU need to stand firm and get over what you need to get over, for her sake.

This I know,
There are NO guarantees ANYWHERE, at ANYTIME of our lives

IT's not easy. It's painful, we all know it is.
That's all I can share .
_________________
Laura~

[Indianbaboon]

Karen, I disagree strongly with you about the war being unjust, it was the right thing to do.

Its execution could be better. ANd it think it will get that way.
Some of the problems were troops went out without body armor, came back without limbs

Donald Rumsfeld is an idiot.

and lastly beloved Kerry and his vote against the war budget. wars need money to be fought.

[Jack Marcotte]

Karen,

You are not wanting information you are looking for afirmation and that
means you think you already know whats going on and don't like it. It also means that you may not be who you say you are or what you are.

Don't worry however, the US will take care of the Islamic fascists like they have in the past taken care of the Nazi facists. We expect the Brits
to let us carry the load no matter what reservations people like you have.

[Indianbaboon]

Jack I think you mean HELP us carry the load

So far, the Brits have been our one true ally in this fight

they have peaceniks to contend with just as we do, but they do (or at least their right does) firmly believe in the same values as we do.

[MadIvan]

Karen:

You're embarassing us and doing us no credit. It's very simple -

The lads are there because we are engaged in a world wide war with terrorists - this means the terrorist organisations themselves, and the states that support them. The Taliban in Afghanistan was taken out for this reason. As for Saddam, here are the undeniables:

1. Saddam was known to have had weapons of mass destruction and used them against his own people.

2. Prior to the war, everyone, including the United Nations and the French believed he had those weapons still. He had not allowed inspections since 1998.

3. Saddam had links to Al Qaeda. And this isn't something that the right is making it up - you can see for yourself: LINK Scroll down to where Saddam offers Bin Laden asylum. The Guardian reported on meetings between Al Qaeda and Saddam in 1999.

4. Saddam was pumping oxygen into the lungs of terrorism already. For example, his "grant" of $25,000 to each family of a Palestinian suicide bomber.

Given these undeniables, it was impossible not to see Saddam as a threat. Weighing a doubt regarding the extent of his weapons programmes, against the certainty that he was a menace - taking him out was the most reasonable thing that could be done for world security. Hindsight is 20/20, but Saddam was an idiot - if he wanted to remain in power, he should have proven he had nothing in his arsenal.

That's why the lads are there. And at worst, what they have done, is get rid of an evil dictator who was a parasite on his own people.

Understood?

Ivan
_________________

[karen2]

These reponses make me laugh and cry

Redneck boys. You try hard but you're not very bright. So What.

That's my opinion. Another glass of wine, Oh Yes please.

Gug glug glug

Talk to you all tomorrow!

ADMIN: I don't think so.
_________________
I'm such a loserrrrrrrrr!

[MadIvan]

[neverforget]

I think those who had family members put by Saddam Hussein and his sons in the hundreds of unmarked graves are very supportive of what the allies have done in Iraq. They now know the Husseins will never be able to do so again.

Those in Israel will know that the Husseins will never again provide financial reward to Palestinian homicide bombers.

The Kurds in the north of Iraq will know the Husseins will never again gas entire Kurdish villages.

Those in Kuwait will now know the Husseins will never again rape, pillage, and murder their citizens.

[Bob Chamberlain]

I will repeat the first words of my last post:

Don't get discouraged, it's going to take a while. I think people today get too used to "instant" everything - and they tend to forget that things are seldom that simple in real life.

I think your judgement of the state of affairs is too harsh. Perhaps your viewpoint is being filtered by a media that (like ours) concentrates too heavily on what is wrong and ignores what is right. I have talked with several US soldiers who have been on the ground in Iraq. They are quite positive that things are going well. Not perfectly. Nobody ever said that. But better than the media would lead us (like us??) to believe. And every single one I have spoken to believes he is accomplishing something worhtwhile. Of the 6 or 8 I have spoken with, not a single one said anything like, "Thank God I made it home. I'm never going back."

I want you to think back to England of 1940. The disaster at Dunkirk, the terror of the Blitz. Yes, most of that could have been avoided, or at least ameliorated, if your leadership had been stronger in the mid-thirties. But the English people hung tough. They replaced their weak, appeasement minded leadership with a tough old bulldog and they got the job done. And your life is better because they did. The entire world is a better place because they did. It may be that Tony Blair is no Churchill. President Bush really is not another FDR. But Churchill and FDR made many mistakes as well. War is no easy task. In fact it may be more difficult today than is was back in the 40's. Certainly both men have to fight as hard on the home front as they do abroad. At least Churchill and FDR had nearly unqualified support on the home front. So give Bush and Blair some time and give them some understanding. Things are far from as hopeless as you seem to believe.

And the best thing you can do to help is to help your country present a strong and united front. Everything you see in the media is seen also by our enemies. If they see us as weak and divided, they will simply be encouraged to hang on for a while longer. The sooner the terrorists (and the societies that produced them) become convinced that resistance is hopeless, the sooner all of our young peeople can come home safely. We see this happening in Iraq. The people are becoming more confident of the steadfastness of the US and GB and the strength of their own new government. We are now getting much more intelligence from the general population than before and our operations are becoming more effective. And more of the operations are being conducted by the Iraqi's themselves. The militia groups are becoming more desperate as they see themselves losing and they are still capable of hurting us. The fight is far from over. But this phase is ending and it will end even sooner if we appear confident and strong.

[Indianbaboon]

Karen, i've become very familiar with elitist attitudes like yours both here and across the pond.

you dont agree wtih us, so we're idiots. I am a redneck, and damn proud of it. I've got the cowboy hat, the drawl, the country/westernmusic, and I know how to do a hard days wokr with my hands.

I also graduated from an ivy league school in three years and am coming over to London to study in one of the finest bioanthropolgy depts in the world.

but i'm just an idiot redneck

Ivan, don't worry, most of us have faced her same hogwash cloaked in the american dialect before. we know better htan to generalize.

[You GottaBeKidding]

Call me skeptical, but I smelled a troll with Karen's first post (just like that Wednesday person). Whine, whine, trying to get sympathy, trying to get everyone to molly coddle.

[Uisguex Jack]

Karen 2, that was fun hearing from you.

Where do you live in the U K?

I was reading the 'recruitment page for the 'Black Watch'
http://users.tinyonline.co.uk/blackwatch/recruiting.htm
and it seemed odd your friends would be in that specific group of soldiers.

I can see your concern! Tell me how did your friend end up
among your country's most elite of soldiers?

I hope they are succesfull in thier mission. I think it's only fair that the
People of Iraq could live free of the most wretched of dictators in the last ten years. I hope you wouldn't want your offspring subjected to any harder a life than we all, already lead?

Good night.

[NavyBrat]

Ivan-

Please, don't apologize for her. YOU have done nothing wrong and have been a sensible gentleman. First of all, we don't even know she is a SHE and we don't even know she is even BRITISH. She just claims she is. You just keep posting away and just counter with the facts and good common sense.
_________________
Laura~

[Theresa Alwood]

Well I admit I love Tony Blair! What a great man he is to stand by us in our time of need. When most Brits condemn and just do not get it of why we went into Iraq...but we have remember also that the English news media is just as bad as the New York Time, LA Times and the National Enquirer.

We can either fight the terrorist over there or on our streets. That is how I see it. I, for one, would rather fight it there and have our armed forces fight it for us. We have the best military and we need to allow them to fight this war as those on the ground deem necessary.

The one thing we have learned through this war is who our true allies are!
_________________
Born to raise a little hell!

[LewWaters]