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BrownBill
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:15 pm Post subject: PCF's operating in canals? |
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A question for those who served on PCF's. Did they ever operate off river into the canals? This question is brought up by an article attributed to Col Hackworth that some have used as a vindication of Kerry's bragging.
The meaning of a Purple Heart
By David H. Hackworth
The patrol boat slipped quietly up the canal until the eerie silence was suddenly shattered by enemy automatic-weapon fire from both heavily vegetated riverbanks. The U.S. Navy crew instantly responded with a barrage of machine-gun, mortar and grenade-launcher fire while I looked for cover.
But I was in South Vietnam's Mekong Delta, stuck on the deck of the ultimate moving target, and there was no place to hide. The only protection I had from the singing slugs was my paper-thin U.S. Army jungle-fatigue jacket.
Soon, U.S. Navy helicopter gunships were hosing down the Viet Cong, who were dug in no more than 100 yards from us. Then we continued our surreal surf upstream through the miasma of cordite and smoke.
A Navy petty officer asked, "How's it going, colonel?"
"I gotta tell you, chief, this isn't my bag," I responded.
"What just happened is pretty much standard down here, sir," he replied. "Welcome to the Brown Water Navy."
I am in no way trying to discredit Col. Hackworth, one of the most decorated military men of our time. Arguing with some of these people is like banging your head against a wall.
They insist that his use of 'patrol boat' is that he was on a PCF. My reading of his words is that he was on a Monitor. Reasons for why:
I never saw a PCF in a canal. Could have been, I just never saw one.
Use of a mortar. As far as I know, only Monitors were armed with them.
I have tried to explain to them the type of boats and the operations performed with both special groups and the 9th Infantry. But, what I need is info from PCF vets. Did you ever operate in the canals?
Thanks,
BrownBill |
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mtboone
Founder
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 470
Location: Kansas City, MO.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:34 pm Post subject: PCF in canals |
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| Yes they did and they had a mortar also. |
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BrownBill
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: PCF in canals |
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| mtboone wrote: | | Yes they did and they had a mortar also. |
Pardon me if I seem skeptical; but, a response with 'they did' and 'they had' leaves me asking for more detail. So mtboone, I hope you can understand that I need a bit more info. Such as PCF#! If you do indeed have first-hand knowledge of ops & armament, this should not be a problem.
It pains me to have to ask such questions; but, who knows who is who on the 'net? |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hello, there,
You may find the information you're seeking faster by using the search function at the top of the page - this has been discussed here before.
I used pcf* canal* and it gave me a page of results, some of the threads several pages long.
I'm sure that you'll get answers to specific questions later in the day when everyone logs on.
More information can be found on the BrownWaterNavy board at:
http://p197.ezboard.com/bbrownwaternavyanddeltaarmyvietnamveterans
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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RStauch
Ensign
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: PCF in canals |
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| BrownBill wrote: | | It pains me to have to ask such questions; but, who knows who is who on the 'net? |
Take a look at:
http://swiftboats.net/extras/boat_background.htm
In particular, they write:
"The Navy Bureau of Ships had required more than fifty military modifications to the commercial design. These changes included two (2) .50-caliber machine guns, in a Mark 17 turret above the pilot house, an over and under .50-caliber machine gun/81 mm mortar combination, mounted on the rear deck, the construction of a mortar ammunition box on the stern ..."
Peace ... Through Strength,
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Richard Stauch
Ft. Myers, FL |
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BrownBill
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks brothers, this is the info I was interested in. I served 2 tours on PBR's but my knowledge of PCF's is very limited.
It seems that like PBR's the arms a PCF carried varied quite a bit.
"Boats of glass, Balls of Brass, Black Berets Forever" |
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rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: PCF's operating in canals? |
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| BrownBill wrote: | Did they ever operate off river into the canals?
:
I never saw a PCF in a canal. Could have been, I just never saw one.
Use of a mortar. As far as I know, only Monitors were armed with them.
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....  .............. 
....  .............. 
The Swifts did indeed operate in the rivers, canals and klongs of Vietnam.
Just not everywhere. The Swift Boats were the "high speed raiders." The
PBRs {Patrol Boat River} were the "neighborhood 911 squad cars." And
the Riverine Forces and 9th Infantry were the "SWAT Team" of the craft
that perfomed interdiction and pacification programs under the SEALORDS
strategy.
...................... http://pcf45.com/sealords/sealords.html ........................
In fact, as described on pages 293-294 of Tom Cutler's Book "Brown Water,
Black Beret" ... it was a group of Swifts that in November of 1968 made the
first transit from Ha Tien on the Gulf of Siam up along the Giang Thanh river
then thru the Vinh Te canal all the way to Chau Doc on the Bassac river.
................... http://pcf45.com/sealords/hatien/hatien.htmll .....................
Swifts also led the way up the Mekong deep into Cambodia during the
authorized incursion into the sanctuaries in 1970. Kerry never was in
Cambodia in 1968-69.
.............. http://pcf45.com/sealords/yrbm16/yrbm16.html#thdxi ..............
So you could say that the Swifts acted as the "naval recon" in Army terms.
Info on the combination 81 mm mortar and .50 cal MG on Swifts is at:
......................... http://pcf45.com/misfire/81-50.html ..........................
......................... http://pcf45.com/misfire/mortar.html ..........................
I apologize for the length, but I hope this answers your questions ... Bob S
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Last edited by rbshirley on Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:30 am; edited 3 times in total |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| As you can see by rbshirley's pic's, it is total insanity and stupidity to ever beach a swift on a canal during an ambush like Kerry decided to do. Most always during an ambush the boats would take fire from both sides. |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| The bandit wrote: | | As you can see by rbshirley's pic's, it is total insanity and stupidity to ever beach a swift on a canal during an ambush like Kerry decided to do. Most always during an ambush the boats would take fire from both sides. |
As usual, I disagree.
Doug |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Did the PCFs ever go up canals?
I was an advisor aboard a Vietnamese PCF (craft that had been turned over to the VN Navy) in early March of 1970, 15 or 20 miles north of Qui Nhon. The VN skipper took the boat about a 2/3 of a kilometer up a small canal to insert some ARVN troops. You could touch tree limbs on both sides. Getting out was harder. The crew had to get in the water to turn the boat around by pushing on it to turn it around in place. We didn't meet any enemy though and I don't think the ARVN did either.
I don't know if any of the all American crews did stunts like this, but I wouldn't be surprised if one did.
Last edited by BuffaloJack on Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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baldeagl
PO3
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 260
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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If you really wonder if Swiftees went into canals and/or what sort of munitions they had, read this story - http://www.mwweb.com/ndc/SwiftBoats/flagday.htm. It includes a terrifying account of a battle in a canal on 3/8/69 that should make you realize what kind of men Swiftees were. We owe them all a tremendous debt of gratitude.
You won't have any doubts about Swiftees after that.
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antimedia
USN OST-6 68-74
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/ |
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