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Bob Chamberlain Lt.Jg.
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 147 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:52 am Post subject: Analysis of the March 13 records |
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Where Is The Truth?
There is a lot of discussion about claims made in the book “Unfit For Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry” that John Kerry lied to receive several of his medals. The general opinion expressed by the media seems to be that there is no way of determining who is telling the truth and, therefore, that John Kerry should be given the benefit of the doubt. I believe there is enough mutually contradictory evidence on record, often in John Kerry’s own words, that we should at least question John Kerry’s version(s) of events.
As an example, I will use the action of March 13, 1969, for which John Kerry was awarded a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star.
Exhibit 1
The Personnel Casualty Report (source: John Kerry’s website) for this incident states in two locations that, on March 13, 1969, LTJG John Kerry “suffered shrapnel wounds in his left buttocks and contusions on his right forearm when a mine detonated close aboard PCF-94”.
The wounds observed by the medical personnel are shrapnel in the buttocks and a bruise of the right arm. Both wounds are stated as having resulted from a mine explosion.
Exhibit 2
The Bronze Star citation (source: John Kerry’s website) for this incident contains the following statements: “… another mine detonated close aboard his Inshore Patrol Craft knocking a man into the water and wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY in the right arm.” and “The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with personal disregard for his safety, he pulled the man aboard”.
No mention is made of a wound in the buttocks and John Kerry’s arm is bleeding, not bruised. It is implied, but not directly stated, that John Kerry was under enemy fire at the time he pulled the man from the water.
Exhibit 3
In “Tour of Duty”, on page 314, John Kerry states “… the concussion threw me violently against the bulkhead on the door and I smashed my arm.” On page 315, John Kerry states “… my right arm hurt and I couldn’t pull very hard with it.”
No mention is made of a wound in the buttocks, and John Kerry’s arm is bruised, not bleeding. In the remainder of John Kerry’s direct quote, he does not state that he actually was under enemy fire while pulling Jim Rassmann from the water. However, the author’s words, in recapping the events, do include “a hail of gunfire causing him to risk his life”.
Exhibit 4
In “John F. Kerry, The Complete Biography By The Boston Globe Reporters Who Know Him Best”, on page 106, it is stated that “Kerry, who had been hit in the arm and was bleeding, reached down with his good arm and pulled Rassmann to safety…”.
No mention is made of a wound in the buttocks and John Kerry’s arm is bleeding, not bruised. In the remainder of the passage, it is not stated that John Kerry actually was under enemy fire while pulling Jim Rassmann from the water.
Exhibit 5
In “Tour of Duty”, on page 313, relating events that happened earlier on March 13, it is stated “The Nung blew up some huge bins of rice they had found, as it was assumed as always, that these were the local stockpiles earmarked to feed the hungry VC moving through the Delta smuggling weapons. ‘I got a small piece of grenade in my ass from one of the rice-bin explosions and then we started to move back to the boats, firing to our rear as we went,’ Kerry related”.
Here we have mention of a wound in the buttocks from a “friendly” grenade that was used to destroy a cache of rice. No mention is made of any enemy fire being received at the time or location where the rice was destroyed.
Analysis
The Personnel Casualty Report is an official document prepared in the relative calm of a sick bay environment. We must assume that it is accurate.
The Bronze Star citation most likely was written by a personnel clerk, working either from John Kerry’s after action report or from a written recommendation for the award made by Kerry, Rassmann or some other member of the crew.
According to the author of “Tour of Duty”, “While hundreds of primary and secondary sources were drawn upon and more than one hundred people were interviewed for this book, the narrative is based largely on journals and correspondence Kerry kept while on his tours of duty.”
According to the authors of “John F. Kerry”, the events related in Chapter 6 (which includes page 106) were drawn from interviews with most of Kerry’s surviving crewmates and with Jim Rassmann. “All events described were checked against official navy records, most in ‘spot reports’ filed by commanders just after action, many of them written by Kerry.”
The statement concerning a buttocks wound in Exhibit 5 is enclosed in quotes. This statement must have been made by John Kerry in an interview or in his journals. A buttocks wound is not mentioned in any other narrative of the actions that took place on March 13. The medical personnel who filled out the Personnel Casualty Report must have been misinformed by John Kerry as to the source of this buttocks wound. Since this wound was inflicted by “friendly fire” that was directed at a rice bin and during a time when no enemy fire was being received, it clearly does not meet the criteria established for the award of the Purple Heart.
While the criteria for the award of the Purple Heart do not specifically require that a wound break the skin of the victim, it is extremely unlikely that a bruise, by itself, would require treatment by medical personnel or that medical personnel would prepare a Personnel Casualty Report for such a minor injury. It is clear that the Personnel Casualty Report, and hence the award of the Purple Heart, was made on the basis of the “small piece of grenade” received from the rice bin incident. The award of this Purple Heart is not justified by the evidence.
The Bronze Star citation clearly is based, at least in part, on misinformation. Clearly, John Kerry was not wounded in his right arm and was not bleeding as stated in the citation. While this wound is not critical to the award of the decoration, it is a misstatement that heightens the degree of heroism displayed and opens the question of whether the citation contains other misstatements as well. The central question is, did John Kerry pull Jim Rassmann from the water while under enemy fire? Several other PCF boats were within yards of John Kerry’s boat at the time Jim Rassmann was pulled from the water. A number of personnel on these boats have stated unequivocally that no enemy fire was being received at the time. The relevant passages in both books and the medal citation all mention that Jim Rassmann was under fire at some point while he was in the water, but none of these sources explicitly states that enemy fire was being received at the time that he was pulled from the water. Perhaps at the time John Kerry went forward to recover Jim Rassmann, he was afraid that enemy fire might begin, or resume, while he was in this exposed position. And perhaps this fear of enemy fire led to the ambiguous phrasing in the medal citation. This must remain a judgement call. But one thing is clear, a Bronze Star Medal should not have been awarded to a man who exposed himself to the possibility of enemy fire in order to pull another man out of the water using his bruised arm. The award of this Bronze Star is not justified by the evidence.
The award of the Purple Heart is based on one clear misstatement – that the buttocks wound resulted from the mine explosion.
The award of the Bronze Star is based on one clear misstatement – that John Kerry was wounded in the arm and bleeding at the time of the rescue.
The award of the Bronze Star is based on one misleading statement – the phrasing that suggests John Kerry actually was under fire at the time of the rescue. |
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The bandit Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 349
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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There can be no truth with someone like Kerry, truth is like a garlic or a silver bullet to him.
His boatmate says he was actually shot and bleeding when he pulled rassmann up.
Del Sandusky said he saw, "John, shot and bleeding, laid down and pulled up Rassmann by his belt."
I guess he is trying to account for that blood in that Bronze citation!!!
This is just pathetic. |
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Reg Seaman Recruit
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 30
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Analysis of the March 13 records |
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Quote: |
....The award of the Bronze Star is based on one clear misstatement – that John Kerry was wounded in the arm and bleeding at the time of the rescue.
The award of the Bronze Star is based on one misleading statement – the phrasing that suggests John Kerry actually was under fire at the time of the rescue. |
Bob- I like the clear way you presented this issue. I'm no expert on this issue but I have a suggestion. Why not go back to the original 3/13/69 Spot report, quote the key parts when the violence first begins and stop when pcf-94 tows pcf-3. Then compare it to what the people involved are saying now. In other words break down the fire action step by step.
I think the PH analysis was strong but I'm still confused by the "under fire" "not under fire" rescue issue.
Oh, and by the way please feel free to critique my "cambodian" post http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2304&start=0 |
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ASPB Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 1680
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a link to the Spot Report.
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/SpotReports_March1969.pdf
Note that although the report indicates extensive damage to PCF-94 I believe it's a typo as no damage is reported to PCF-3. Such damage would not have allowed PCF-94 to tow PCF-3. The estimated repair date is 18 March 1969.
Additionally, PCF-94 was in service the next 2 days which is also impossible given the damage. It had to be PCF-3
You decide. _________________ On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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Reg Seaman Recruit
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 30
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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ASPB wrote: |
... Such damage would not have allowed PCF-94 to tow PCF-3. The estimated repair date is 18 March 1969.
Additionally, PCF-94 was in service the next 2 days which is also impossible given the damage. It had to be PCF-3... |
ASPB, is my reading right that the Kerry March Spot report ends with the 3/13 bronze medal incident.
Brinkley's ToD states that there was at least one other PCF-94 misson after 3/13. He writes Kerry's last mission PCF-94 went up the Rach Giang Thanh to deliver a SEAL team near the Cambodian border. Interesting on that issue Brinkley makes no mention of the SEALs crossing the border and says the closest PCF-94 came to the boder was 50 yards. One wonders why Brinkley was so shy in writing about the actual border crossing(s) in Jan/Feb!!
ASPB, I'd really be interested in your take on my Cambodian post mentioned above. Thanks. |
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ASPB Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 1680
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Where did Brinkley write about the Rach Giang Thanh? Page reference in TofD please.
The only March SpotRep I've been able to lay my hands on is at Kerry's site and it's just for the 13th. The only mission shortly after the 13th involving PCF-94 mentioned in the CosDiv 11 Command History (Kerry's Site) was on the Song Cau Lon on 18 March 69.
I believe, however, that Kerry left CosDiv 11 AOR for home on 17 Mar 69 _________________ On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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Reg Seaman Recruit
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 30
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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ASPB wrote: | Where did Brinkley write about the Rach Giang Thanh? Page reference in TofD please. |
I don't have the book in front of me but my notes say "around" page 324-328 he writes about Operation Menu, the Rach Giang Thanh, the Vinh Te Canal, Tra Phu (sic? Tra Pho?), and SEALS. Brinkley's a little vauge but he definately ends the story by saying it was Kerry's last mission.
ASPB wrote: | The only March SpotRep I've been able to lay my hands on is at Kerry's site and it's just for the 13th. The only mission shortly after the 13th involving PCF-94 mentioned in the CosDiv 11 Command History (Kerry's Site) was on the Song Cau Lon on 18 March 69.
I believe, however, that Kerry left CosDiv 11 AOR for home on 17 Mar 69 |
I see PCF 94 on 20 March Rach Nang and 23 March Bay Hap River. Are we just assuming a different OIC on these missions. I wish we had a source for that.
ASPB, I'm a little curious as to why I'm not seeing the Feb 1969 or any "Rach Giang Thanh" SEAL missions in the COSDIV 11 "highlights".
Were they not significant or were they-- if not "black"-- at least a little "grey"?? |
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baldeagl PO3
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 260 Location: Texas
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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ASPB wrote: | Here's a link to the Spot Report.
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/SpotReports_March1969.pdf
Note that although the report indicates extensive damage to PCF-94 I believe it's a typo as no damage is reported to PCF-3. Such damage would not have allowed PCF-94 to tow PCF-3. The estimated repair date is 18 March 1969.
Additionally, PCF-94 was in service the next 2 days which is also impossible given the damage. It had to be PCF-3
You decide. |
I've got this report, and all but one page is illegible. The one page that's useful is a MIA report for Michael John Givens. Where are you getting this report that you refer to? _________________ antimedia
USN OST-6 68-74
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/ |
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ASPB Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 1680
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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It's legible on both of my computers. Send me an email address and I'll send you a .pdf of the document. Try printing it. Sometime pdfs are more legible that way.
Tom _________________ On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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baldeagl PO3
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 260 Location: Texas
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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ASPB wrote: | It's legible on both of my computers. Send me an email address and I'll send you a .pdf of the document. Try printing it. Sometime pdfs are more legible that way.
Tom |
I was using the "Preview" application in Mac OS X. I downloaded and installed Adobe Acrobat and now I can see all the pages whereas before I could only see a few.
Thanks for the offer, but it's no longer needed. _________________ antimedia
USN OST-6 68-74
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/ |
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lrb111 Captain
Joined: 28 Jul 2004 Posts: 508
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:16 am Post subject: |
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ASPB wrote: | Where did Brinkley write about the Rach Giang Thanh? Page reference in TofD please.
The only March SpotRep I've been able to lay my hands on is at Kerry's site and it's just for the 13th. The only mission shortly after the 13th involving PCF-94 mentioned in the CosDiv 11 Command History (Kerry's Site) was on the Song Cau Lon on 18 March 69.
I believe, however, that Kerry left CosDiv 11 AOR for home on 17 Mar 69 |
In kerry's Leave report it says he got leave starting on the 28 Mar to Apr6 th. Does that help anything? _________________ said Democratic Chairman Terry McAuliffe. "It is inexcusable to mock service and sacrifice."
well, when even the DNC can see it,,,,, then kerry is toast. |
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rds Seaman Recruit
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 Posts: 7 Location: Des Plaines, IL 60016
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:02 am Post subject: |
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ASPB wrote: |
ASPB, is my reading right that the Kerry March Spot report ends with the 3/13 bronze medal incident.
Brinkley's ToD states that there was at least one other PCF-94 misson after 3/13. He writes Kerry's last mission PCF-94 went up the Rach Giang Thanh to deliver a SEAL team near the Cambodian border. |
The following is from a Del Sandusky article in the St Petersburg paper dated 8.8.04. Establishes Kerry's time as OinC of PCF-94.
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/08/08/Decision2004/Serving_with_Kerry__a.shtml
"From Jan. 30 to March 13, 1969, Kerry and the crew of the PCF-94 would conduct 18 missions in the Mekong Delta river system. In that time, Kerry would earn a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and add two Purple Hearts to the one he received earlier." |
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Bob Chamberlain Lt.Jg.
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 147 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:07 am Post subject: Back again |
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Hi All,
Sorry to have dropped off the map for so long. I almost dropped under the earth. I had a heart attack last Thursday, although I did not recognize it as such and did not go to the hospital until Saturday. I won't say John Kery caused the heart attack, but in all seriousness, I was getting pretty steamed up about the SOB. I'll have to keep it cooler for a while.
Quote: | I'm still confused by the "under fire" "not under fire" rescue issue. |
I had two reasons for concentrating on this:
A - The Swiftvets say there was no enemy fire and the pro-Kerry media says (roughly) "all of Kerry's crewmates say there was fire. The Swiftvets are lying". I actually don't know what Kerry's crewmates may or may not have said about the fire issue, but the thing that struck me is that all published reports and accounts of the incident actually do not explicitly state that Kerry was under fire out on the bow. It is inferred, perhaps, from the statements mentioning that Jim Rassman was under fire while in the water, but there is no actual statement such as "exposing himself to intense enemy fire, John Kerry pulled Jim Rassman from the water". This strikes me as odd, and to my way of thinking, lends credibility to the Swiftvets statements. This doesn't come down to a case of he said/she said. Both Kerry's published statements and the Swiftvets' statements could easily be true.
B - I was Army, and I am sure there are many differences in how awards and decorations are handled in the Army and the Navy. But in my Army experience, I can't see a Bronze Star being awarded for some rescue action undertaken under the possibility that the enemy might start shooting. If you take away the wounded and bleeding right arm (which we know was false) and you take away the enemy fire while Kerry was out on the bow, there isn't one damn thing "heroic" left to award a medal for. If you take every other word of the medal citaion as gospel truth, all it says is that John Kerry did his duty as OIC of a Swift Boat. No more and no less. And in the Army, no medal. OK, maybe an ARCOM as an "Attaboy", but not a Bronze V. |
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You GottaBeKidding Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 692
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Bob,
Ouch! Glad you are back.
There's some discussion of this here: http://idexer.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1
You might want to see what a few others have found. |
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rbshirley Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 394
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Back again |
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Bob Chamberlain wrote: | If you take away the wounded and bleeding right arm (which we know was
false) and you take away the enemy fire while Kerry was out on the bow,
there isn't one damn thing "heroic" left to award a medal for. If you take
every other word of the medal citaion as gospel truth, all it says is that John
Kerry did his duty as OIC of a Swift Boat. No more and no less. And in the
Army, no medal. OK, maybe an ARCOM as an "Attaboy", but not a Bronze |
I couldn't agree more.
I wasn't "in Kerry's Boat", wasn't "on scene", or even "in country" then
How-some-ever ....
Even leaving out the fact that Kerry ran, disregarding from which boat
Rassman fell off of, accepting the argument that there was a second
mine (NOT), and even allowing for the pain in Kerry's butt and arm.
The most striking, undisputed, part of this story is that at least three
other people were fished out of the water at the time besides Rassman:
The sailors off of PCF-3 and Larry Thurlow. A routine evolution. No big
deal.
The absolute first thing we practiced during Swift Boat training was the
"man overboard drill" to pick up a floating dummy called "Oscar"
------ ........
How this simple activity was turned into an award issuance for the routine
act of "retreiving Oscar" amid all of the rescues that day of is unbelievable
And demeaning to all the sailors that served on Swift Boats.
.
Last edited by rbshirley on Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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