SwiftVets.com

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

[HardCorps]

Thanks Navy, Navy, Navy. I think the fact that the Official "Kerry-Edwards" web page removed the original and most important citation overnight without any explanation is revealing.

EDIT UPDATE(21AUG 21:31)- Kerry'-Edwards "Silver Star Citation".pdf is still missing the 1st Silver Star citation originally located with #2 and #3. The 1st citation can be found on the Kerry site separate from the other 2, under "Military Service Awards" pdf. Why did they remove #1 from the other 2 ? what's important is the contradictions of #1 and #2.

My problem is that I have so many other relevant and news worthy issues in addition to fraudulent medals, that will persuade even the Vets 4 Kerry to demand he step down. (We are on every honorable Vets side afterall)
This is more important than the election (Pres. Bush is an honorable CinC and will win on his own merits) Kerry is a provable traitor and criminal.

I just changed the title of my topic to “Kerry has 3 altered Silver Star Citations” because I hope everyone will read it and understand it.

I have sent you and the moderators an e-mail with a recommendation for a new Forum Topic Icon. "Unfit for Command": comments, questions, book review. This will help the 300,000+ people who are soon to come here. Please disregard if unhelpful or "backseat driver-ish"

Also, I just saw FOX News Watch and they recommended that viewers go to "Fact Check.org" which maintains that SBVT claims are false.

Well guess what, fact check has just posted a clarification to kerry's Silver Star problem and their clarification is again TOTALLY FACTUALLY WRONG!!!!!
Just to start with, they say SECNAV John Chaffee signed the 3rd Citation, Wrong: it's John Lehman but that just the little stuff, The rest of their conclusions about the entire Swift Boat issue (Fitreps, VVAW fakes and the Senate testimony etc..) will be so easy to prove wrong, and with facts and fairness, I intend to do exactly that without overkill or exaggeration.

Once again Thank you all for fighting the good fight and leading the way!
_________________
__________________________
-USMC - Always Faithful
-Platoon Cmdr - Somalia
-ANGLICO FAC - Iraqi Freedom

[Tony]

I'm a bit confused...sorry. I was in the Navy when John Lehman was SECNAV and I was in grade school during the final years of the Viet Nam war. Why is John Lehman signing award citations from over a decade earlier? Why would they need to be revised or changed or have anything done to them in the early 80s? I'm sure he was a busy man at the time building a 600 ship Navy and all. How many other Viet Nam era awards did he sign? Is this routine? Is the current SECNAV signing awards today from Grenada and Panama? What does this all mean?
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http://tonyk.smugmug.com/photos/1822816-L-1.jpg
USN 1983-1992

[The bandit]

I can't speak for the Navy, but I am pretty sure under Corps rules the citation must be one page only. Since Zumwalt's was two pages it was edited to fit one page before going to the SECNAV, which is weird because they already had given it to Kerry before it reached there and approved like the the regs call for. This suggests to me Zumwalt had never bypassed SECNAV approvall requirements before or he wouldn't had writen a two page length citation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RGScott]

Hard Corps -
I just went to "Fact Check.org". Isn’t it amazing that their first criticism is that Swift Boat Vets was started by a man who donated to the Republican Party?
This seems to be Hanoi John supporters’ answer to anyone who dares criticize the “thrice wounded war hero”, lying, backstabbing, seditious traitor currently running for President on the Democrat’s ticket.
_________________
Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.
ee cummings

[HardCorps]

OK let me explain: Tony, The Bandit, all

In the 1980's SECNAV John Lehman signed the altered 3rd Silver Star Citation. 10 years before that, ADM HYLAND CINCPACFLT signed the second altered citation. The original was signed by ADM Elmo Zumwalt Jr. back in 1969 and it was entered in kerry's DD-214 back then- DONE DEAL - no need for any re-writen Citation TWO more times.

If kerry lost or threw away his citation and recieved a copy (twice) then Naval Records would have a exact verbatim copy with the 1650 award form and the Summary of action and the manadory eyewittness statements. (this happens to retired servicemen once and a while. but three times?)

Im not going to speculate because I don't have to... The key parts of the second and third re-written CITATIONS are so significantly altered that they change the whole meaning of kerry's actions:
somebody removed the lone VC completely and added "numerically superior force in the face of intense fire" even though there are no bullet holes on kerry's boat and the embarked infantry never fired a shot. They changed "a B-40 rocket" in to "rockets" and removed "he killed him" behind a hootch.
What these changes do are two things
1. Justify the award which should had gotten him relieved.

I don't want to monday morning quarterback a guy in combat because I've been there many times and s#*t changes real fast, but in all the changing versions he needlessly and foolishly endagered his crew and 10 allies on the boat for nothing worthwhile- a wounded VC -Officers from Lt. though Col. get relieved in battle for being STUPID or Foolish (happened in IRAQ too)

2. He changed the content of the Award to suit kerry's changing requirements as a politicial candidate. Also to make him look braver and actually try to meet the prerequisites for a Silver Star not a courts-martial.

Bandit: You are correct that TODAY citations for heroism must be 22 lines or less and 7 1/2 lines for Navy Comm and NAM but that was not always the case. In fact there are many 2 page citations for heroism. Also I believe ADM Zumwalt was the awarding authority during war for anything below Navy Cross.

Even if the rewrite had to fit 1 page for format issues (I don't believe that at all) there was enough fluff to cut out and keep the event description the same, the re-write distorts the whole event.

P.S. Except for the Disgrace kerry brought on the uniform and the generations of True Valor and Sacrifice that those $2 ribbons represent, I really want to bring him to justice for things much, much BIGGER.
_________________
__________________________
-USMC - Always Faithful
-Platoon Cmdr - Somalia
-ANGLICO FAC - Iraqi Freedom

[RGScott]

HardCorps -
Thanks for the explanation concerning the three citations posted 15 Aug. I’ve saved it and will be passing it on.
_________________
Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.
ee cummings

[HardCorps]

RGScott Anytime, let me know if you need more, I just edited the post adding the fact that his embarked Vietnamese infantry must have missed the "intense fire" as the boat had no bullet holes.
_________________
__________________________
-USMC - Always Faithful
-Platoon Cmdr - Somalia
-ANGLICO FAC - Iraqi Freedom

[RGScott]

[Tony]

Hard Corp - thanks - that info is helpful.

I'm still curious as to who rewrote the citations and how often this sort of thing happend. I mean someone had to put that in front of John Lehman so he could sign it. I know he probably signed them en masse, or gasp, had his staff do it, but it seems odd and maybe just a bit sinister that after someone went through the trouble of a rewrite, the SECNAV took the trouble to sign it.
_________________

http://tonyk.smugmug.com/photos/1822816-L-1.jpg
USN 1983-1992

[Paul Woll]

Many good comments in this thread.

Sounds irresponsible of Kerry to beach the boat when they claim they had rockets. How come no bullet holes in damage report? Release all records and we will see the truth.

[Me#1You#10]

Admin note:

Unless there's an objection, it seems this topic would be better located in the R&R forum. I would like to move it there. Please sound off if that gives anyone heartburn.

[SwanLady]

Please post the links to the alternate citations! That way we can all go see them, thanks!

[Me#1You#10]

Hearing no objections, so moved

[RETIREDTOP]

I beleive all citations are written from the original form for the Award Recommendation, the same as posted on Kerrys website. This has aprroving authroities, type of award, eyewitnesses (at least 2, if practicle website http://neds.nebt.daps.mil/Directives/1650/2b.pdf)

Lets see the Award Recommendation for his silver sta