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efuseakay
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Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 64
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 Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:07 pm Post subject: Question for the Swifties that served with Kerry |
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How long did you all serve after Kerry left Vietnam? After he came home and started raising a big stink about his false war crimes charges, were many of you still in Vietnam? I have a friend who seems to think anything you have to say is invalid because (with the exception of O'Neill) nobody else seemed to question Kerry's service at that time...
While I can understand just wanting to come home, to move on with your lives, there are those who cannot, and feel your information is meaningless because nobody seemed to refute Kerry's charges back when they were fresh... (I have a stupid friend, what can I say) 
So, basically, my friend wants to know:
Who else besides O'Neill questioned Kerry's service and atrocity charges back in the '70's?
Why did nobody question back in the 70's? how he "earned" his medals?
*edit*
Maybe this explains what I am looking for... comments from my "friend" -
All you need is ONE statement from ONE witness, from 1971, to prove me wrong.
It is very easy to prove me wrong.
Not some impossible feat.
I know of NO statement from ANY veteran disputing Kerry's medals, until 2004.
But I could be wrong.
If somebody could provide ONE statement, from the time, or before 2004, from ONE of these veterans, who dispute Kerry's medals now, that would harm my argument. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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None of the founders of the group - 254 people, I believe - post here that I know of.
Some may read here occasionally, which is why we set up the Thank You Swiftees forum - so that they could find all the notes of encouragement easily.
John O'Neill was a sort of spokesman for Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace - it wasn't just he who was asking questions and calling Kerry on his exaggerations and wild claims about war crimes.
You can search through google groups (archived back to 1987, I think) you can find postings which may give you good arguments when your friend brings this up.
Get a copy of the book to him.
Have him watch the initial SBVFT press conference on c-span.org - you have to have Real Media or Real Alternative installed on your machine in order to view it, but it's quite a worthwhile 87 minutes. There's no way you can watch this and not understand that these men are speaking out of deep conviction and sincerity.
SBVFT on John Kerry
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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efuseakay
Ensign
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Navy... I've been looking for awhile today and can't seem to come up with much... I will keep on trying though... any more help from anyone would, of course, be appreciated! 
All I am looking for is a statement, or statements by any of the Swifties who now oppose Kerry becoming President, that show they questioned how he received his medals... something that was said before 2003.
I will pass on the C-SPAN link to the friend, but doubt it will change much... you know how they can be...  |
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You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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efuseakey,
You have to realize that the Swifties didn't say anything until it became apparent that Kerry was likely to be running for president. As long as he was one of 100 senators, he couldn't do much damage and it wasn't worth their time to oppose him.
That situation changed when it became possible that Kerry could be elected president. |
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stylin19
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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How about 1996.
David Warsh of the Boston Globe brought up the circumstances surrounding Sen. Kerry's Silver Star about 10 days before the 1996 election. The cracks started appearing in Kerry's story when Warsh interviewed Tom Bellodeau.
"Interviewed during Kerry's 1996 Senate re-election battle, Kerry crew member Tom Bellodeau told the Boston Globe that he - not Kerry - fired the shot that brought down the enemy fighter, who had aimed a loaded rocket launcher at their boat just after Kerry beached it on the Ca Mau peninsula."
Sen. Kerry has been fighting the whipers for awile.
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U.S.M.C. - 1969-1971
RVN- 1970-1971 |
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efuseakay
Ensign
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| stylin19 wrote: | How about 1996.
David Warsh of the Boston Globe brought up the circumstances surrounding Sen. Kerry's Silver Star about 10 days before the 1996 election. The cracks started appearing in Kerry's story when Warsh interviewed Tom Bellodeau.
"Interviewed during Kerry's 1996 Senate re-election battle, Kerry crew member Tom Bellodeau told the Boston Globe that he - not Kerry - fired the shot that brought down the enemy fighter, who had aimed a loaded rocket launcher at their boat just after Kerry beached it on the Ca Mau peninsula."
Sen. Kerry has been fighting the whipers for awile. |
Ah... getting warmer...
You GottaBeKidding, I totally see your point... but back in the VVAW days, Kerry and his group were seen as bringing harm to America... Sure, he only had designs to be Senator at the time, but his group really did endanger this country at that point in time... that's why I am looking for quotes from the Swifties around that time... my friend seems to think this is all part of the "Republican Attack Machine" since it's all come out recently... |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Watch the video - hear these men describe how betrayed and sick they were that they were accused of the kinds of atrocities of which Kerry accused all soldiers of his day.
True, the conference was held this year, but they speak of events "back then."
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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stylin19
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Republican attack machine ? hm.that's a DNC catchphrase.
Tell "your friend" that John Oneill voted for Al Gore.
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U.S.M.C. - 1969-1971
RVN- 1970-1971 |
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rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Question for the Swifties that served with Kerry |
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| efuseakay wrote: |
o After he came home and started raising a big stink about his false war
.. crimes charges, were many of you still in Vietnam?
o Why did nobody question back in the 70's how he "earned" his medals?
.. I know of NO statement from ANY veteran disputing Kerry's medals,
.. until 2004.
o All you need is ONE statement from ONE witness, from 1971, to prove
.. me wrong.
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The issue in 1971 was NOT Kerry's service record but his lies about
the war in general and his colloboration with the North Vietnamese.
In addition to John O'Neill, there were many others that attempted to gain
access to the Senate Foriegn Relations Commitee to testify against Kerry
None were allowed to speak. Only O'Neill was able to get a public hearing
To answer your specific questions about Kerry's false award submissions:
o All US Navy Swift Boat operations were completed in December 1970 with
.. the turnover of all boats to the Vietnamese. Kerry had not yet left the Navy
.. Overall. By 1971 when Kerry met with the North Vietnamese and began
.. his activities in the leadership of the VVAW, troop strength in Vietnam
.. had been reduced by sixty-percent and turnover of military operations
.. to the Southern Forces was progressing well. eg the major push by the
.. North Vietnamese in April 1972 across the DMZ with tank divisions was
.. repulsed by the Army of South Vietnam. It was only after Congress cut
.. all aid to South East Asia that the North disregarded their peace accords
.. (which Kerry supported) and overran Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia with
.. the resulting loss of tens of thousands (millions in Cambodia and Laos)
.. of lives in the "re-education camps." Kerry said only 3000 would be killed.
o Commander Grant Hibbard, (later JAG Admiral) Bill Schachte, and doctor
.. Letson ALL not only questioned but refused Kerry's first Purple Heart
.. in December 1968. No one knows how the medal was awarded without
.. the concurrence of these individuals.
.. Tom Wright and other Swift Boat officers insisted that Kerry leave Vietnam
.. in March 1969 because of his continued unprofessional performance
o There are at least sixty (60) eyewitnesses from 1969 to "prove you wrong"
It was not until the end of the last century and/or the present Presidential
race that the specifics of Kerry's submissions for awards were brought to
the attention of the public and therefore could be addressed by those that
served with Kerry ... including those "on his boat"
Bob Shirley .... Swift Boat Sailor
.
Last edited by rbshirley on Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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efuseakay
Ensign
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | Watch the video - hear these men describe how betrayed and sick they were that they were accused of the kinds of atrocities of which Kerry accused all soldiers of his day.
True, the conference was held this year, but they speak of events "back then." |
Yeah, that's the problem my friend seems to have though... that none of this was brought up until this year... |
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You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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efusekay,
What would the point have been of bringing this all up years ago? Only when the stakes are as high as they are now is it worth it for the men who are taking a stand to do so. They knew what they'd be subjected to. |
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GPSevison
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 12
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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efuseakay,
I would suggest that you tell your friend that it's not the timing that should be questioned, but the truth of the allegations.
If Kerry is truly being honest and the swiftvets are fabricating this whole thing, then I would say that the vets have some explaining to do. However, I don't find that to be the case.
The Kerry camp IS NOT refuting the claims, only trying to discredit the men, themselves, who are making the claims.
Regardless of who pays for an ad or a book, if it is nothing but lies, it carries little, or no, weight whatsoever. However, it would seem that too many people know the TRUTH behind what really happened so their only response is to deflect attention away from that truth and try to "smear" the messenger for presenting a message unpopular with mainstream media and the Kerry camp...
Don't get lured into a change of focus to accommodate the real liars.
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G Sevison |
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Will
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Question for the Swifties that served with Kerry |
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| rbshirley wrote: | | efuseakay wrote: |
o After he came home and started raising a big stink about his false war
.. crimes charges, were many of you still in Vietnam?
o Why did nobody question back in the 70's how he "earned" his medals?
.. I know of NO statement from ANY veteran disputing Kerry's medals,
.. until 2004.
o All you need is ONE statement from ONE witness, from 1971, to prove
.. me wrong.
|
The issue in 1971 was NOT Kerry's service record but his lies about
the war in general and his colloboration with the North Vietnamese.
. |
Long time lurker, first time poster here. I was not a Swifty, but Kerry's behavior in 1971 is seared in my memory, to coin a phrase. I returned from my Vietnam tour in February of that year, which coincided with my release from active duty. I can remember thinking that this sumbitch who's trying to look and talk like JFK is a traitor using the anti-war movement to set up a run for political office. I also remember hearing that he had a short tour and wondering how he collected a SS, BS and 3 PHs so quickly.
To answer efuseakay's original question, there were tens of thousands of people questioning Kerry's record in 1971. We let it go for 35 years because he was a relatively harmless Senator from Massachusetts.
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USMC Vietnam Vet
Retired O-6, USMCR |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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If your friend is really interested in learning whether the Swiftees are lying or not, have him join in the effort in to get Kerry to sign his form 180 for full disclosure of all of his military records.
If they are lying, his so far unreleased records should prove it. If they are speaking the truth, his refusing to fully release them speaks tons.
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Clark County Conservative |
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stevieboy
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 48
Location: Massachusetts (behind enemy lines)
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Yeah, that's the problem my friend seems to have though... that none of this was brought up until this year... |
Well, up until now Kerry was only harming us righteous in the Bay State. Now he has the potential of harming righteous people everywhere! |
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