SwiftVets.com

[xsquid]

Hehe, White castle whiskey is the name. They have the regular and the aged. The aged is actually very good. Rum Viejo was actually rotgut, cheap stuff that I heard some people had actually been blinded by. I'm sure you probably drank mojo, that had a little of everything including white castle, san miguel, fruit juices, itc. There was also a drink called bullfrog that came in pitchers. I loved it there, I always stayed out in town when we were going to be there for a while and you would go down some back strret by a sari sari store and see a row of filipinos and me squatting and drinking san miguel. Great place, great people.

I do have a japan story like your baguio one. In 78 we went to yokosuska for a little while and the boat crew (I ran small boats) followed a fleet tug up the coast to shimoda Japan. We were going to run liberty boats for a US destroyer (the name somehow eludes me now) as the navy a that tme would send one ship and the japanese one ship for the black ships festival. Here's something on it.

http://www.c7f.navy.mil/news/2004/May/5.htm

I was coxswain of a 40 foot utility boat for this. We got there several days before the ships (I believe there was 10 or 11 of us along with the bosun) and the city footed the bill for us in a very nice hotel. The peopel were unbelievably nice, kids would stop just to stare at us and giggle. We met the mayor and he took us to a very nice place that had a separate area with a sunken bar. He bought us some kind of very nice suntory whiskey. When I had watch on the boats the fishermen in the other boats offered me drinks all of the time (which I had to decline) and a business close by sent a girl with a silver platter that had a silver coffee set (pitcher of coffee, cup saucer, etc. I was blown away by this place. We slept on futons ant they had a rock "hotsy" bath. When you came back late and drunk they would have a girl working there bather and shave you. I did have a tie clip that the mayor gave us, but I let my son use it and have never seen it again. I have to ask if he still has it.

US ships only pulled in there once a year and it was only one then. It was great liberty for them, but it was amazing for us as we saw the "inside" of the place and people. A typhoon hit and the ship started dragging anchor, our runs out to take them back to the ship (along with their families, the ship was out of yokosuka and they brought their families along) was against walls waves that would cover the boat and I would have to steer by compass. We, the boat crees, wound up staying a few days past because of the typhoon. I will never forget this amazing experience and even more the amazing people of shimoda japan.
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11 years US navy.

[jwb7605]

He talks about bloated corpses floating in the river and starving women with babies dying of malnutrition.

What publication do I go to to refresh my faulty memory for this?

I remember the kids jumping in s**t river to retrieve coins,
being on Shore Patrol because it was my turn to get the drunks back safely,
having a permanent "hostess" named Celi ... she knew schedules and had 'permanent clients',
Helped her deliver her sister's baby one time,
bought groceries for Celi and her family more than once,
thought the bad guys were called HUKs at the time (68-72),
my 'favorite bar' was machine-gunned one night because the Mayoral election was getting nasty, which was why most bars were on the top floor,
Jeepneys were the "cabs", movie theaters ran mainly Catholic-flavored soap operas,

I remember Olongopo made Tijuana look classy.
Maybe somebody pulled the "bloated corpses" away before we sailors could swoon from the abject horror?

[sore loser]

Like I said earlier, if we could actually nail down where Kerry said he saw bloated corpses in shi# river, we should easily be able to get two or three hundred thousand sailors/marines to call him a liar.

Or maybe he was taking a lot of LSD and hallucinated all of these things.

Before I started going to Po City, the older guys used to talk about how you would be sitting in the bar drinking, and if you saw a Phillippino run through the door in the place, it was time to duck, because chances are the PC would in coming shortly after guns blazing. This was before the sidewalks. I never saw it, so I always wrote it off as something that probably happened once, but now anyone who was ever in the 7th fleet was there, a sea story in other words. Sort of like before I came to this site, I was beginning to think I was the only Vietnam Vet who didn't spend everyday up to my neck in Agent Orange, or the only one not to have had a baby wired with a bomb thrown at me.

When I was so inclined, I hung out at the Cherry Club.

I remember Mojo, but I have no recollection of Bullfrog. I also remember one day you could drink 2 San Migels, and be falling down drunk, the next day you could drink a case, and would've gotten higher from a bottle of coke. And heaven help the shipmates of someone who drank some green ones.
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The Supercarrier.
95,000 tons of diplomacy.
4.5 acres of sovereign US territory.
Any time. Any place.
CVAN-65 and VA-196
The Big "E" and The Main Battery

[xsquid]

[sore loser]

[Paul]

"We were going to run liberty boats for a US destroyer (the name somehow eludes me now)"

It wasn't the Parsons by any chance was it? Just a guess, in case the destroyer was a DDG and homeported out of Yokosuka.

You're right about the Black Ship Festival in Shimoda. That's a great time and a great port. We were there on the Okie Boat the year after you it sounds like, in '79, if I remember correctly.

I really liked Japan and the time spent homeported out of Yokosuka. Another good deal was a cruise around the different islands with the JMSDF Akizuki, the JN flagship. We even had a great time up in Otaru on Hokkaido and visiting Sapporo whle there. Beppu down in the south was a lot of fun and some wild memories. But, truth to tell, by the late ‘70s, if I hadn’t been on a boat homeported out of Japan, and only passed through Yoko on a west-coast ship on WestPac for a few days’ port call, then I don’t believe my memories would be as fond of it.

Richard’s mention of gals pushing drinks to keep company with in Subic I personally found to be more common among such as the nieces and daughters of the bar owners out in Bario Baretto and such, if they even let them in the places. I used to hang out at Amy’s for a time in the late ‘70s when we were in Subic. Her niece worked in the place at times tending bar and such, but that was it.

The drinks for company bit reminded me more of what the Honch in Yokosuka had become by then where the gals hustled to have you buy them their watered down tea at 1,000 yen a pop (about $5.00). There were just enough of those gals left in those kind of joints to start fights over; and let’s just say, most in the bars on the Honch in Yoko working that line were getting pretty “long in the tooth” and not worth fighting over in the first place. . . . And, hey, in Yoko, nine times out of ten, the “winner” didn’t get anything out of it in those joints anyway. And that was too expensive to do regularly. When in port in Yoko during the week, we’d buy a bottle at the exchange and then “check” it in a bar in town and then later in the evening "run the honch". It was affordable. Three bucks for a half gallon of Seagram (which I don't even like) and 1,000 yen ($5 bucks) to check it into the bar. And a very “cultural” experience for me – it’s how I learned to write my first name in kanji Suntori I liked. It was a good smooth scotch.

Anyway, Shimoda and the BSF was another story altogether.

One aside memory of Shimoda comes to mind because of your mention of small boats and harbor at Shimoda: heading back to the ship one night. It was the last boat of the night back, loaded with a bunch of us drunks. . . This ship was anchored a couple miles out. There was a slight storm blowing in. Inside the harbor and smooth like glass. We passed the first breakwater and started rocking and rolling. It was rough. We passed the second breakwater and the bow plunged and disappeared and man it was a RIDE from there on! Forget a hook and standing on the bow, when we came alongside the ship, the seaman on the bow laid flat while the coxswain aimed the boat at the ship and then gunned the motor to bring the guy on the bow of the boat right under the line for him to grab onto it. Nothing surprising about the difference in sea state once you pass a breakwater, but it was impressive what a difference those two seawalls made for the harbor at Shimoda versus just one.
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Paul

[xsquid]

[Paul]

“I didn't care for yokosuka. . . I don't remember what cruise it was, but the leahy ran aground so we would all go in the bars and order a ‘Leahy on the rocks.’” ”

I don’t blame you, I didn’t either. I liked Japan. Yoko wasn’t anything to get excited about. I often got out of town on the weekends when we were in port. Got pretty good with the train system. I still laugh thinking about the first weekend a few days after arriving in Japan and while in the transient barracks when another guy and myself went to Tokyo.

At each station we kept asking folks how to get to Tokyo? Hey, it was a city of 20 million people. We were asking at stations that were part of Tokyo!!! LOL The looks weren’t just due to language problems. . . The question did result in our finally ending up at Tokyo Station! LOL Man. . .

I’ve never pulled into Okinawa. We spent a lot of time off Okinawa though, mainly during the big exercises. Dropped off a Seal Team sqad in off the fantail in one of 'em once. . . Lot's a noise and star shells from where the Marines on the shore near where they were head for just after. We wondered if maybe the jarheads hadn't detechted the SEALs. We never found out anything, just wondered. . .

Hey, the fights were bad on the Honch in ’78. One month, then I remember that something like 4 shore patrol were put in the hospital: two teams had actually been jumped. Two guys in one team were beaten badly by those who jumped them. In the other team that was jumped, one poor slob ended up in the hospital because his partner didn’t know how to use a nightstick when that team was jumped! Enough said. . .

I wasn't standing Shore Patrol at the time. That month one 3rd glass tad to shore patrol out of our division passed on that the Senior Chief mustering them told them, ‘ask for the guy’s id, if he starts to give you trouble, there goes his right shoulder. If he continues, there goes the left.” It was bad. Shore Patrol numbers were increased and the SP teams kept each other within line of sight out on the Honch. And you probably remember well that the USO was no better, especially on the second floor with the country western band at the room at one end and the disco on the other, with the common Head between the two LOL Although fights in the Gay ‘90s downstairs were common too, even with all of the Shore Patrol at each door and the office in the building!

As to the Leahy, yep, they ran her aground leaving one of the best marked channels in the world! The new steel that went into repairing her because of that changed her displacement tonnage because of the metric standard in Japan.

A few years later in Port Hueneme, I met a guy who was on the Leahy at the time, a Gunner’s Mate. He told me that the old man had dismissed the pilot and then ordered turns for like 15 knots or more just before they ran aground. Apparently the Gunner’s Mate on watch in after steering called up to bridge wing lookout just after and while they were waiting for the tugs to come alongside, asking what the old man was doing? The lookout replied, “just watching his Admiral’s barge slowing drift away. . .” He also told me that that Captain wasn’t like by the crew who saw him as a ticket puncher only concerned about making Admiral. . . .

Ordering the “Leahy on the rocks” was started by the crew of the Parsons. For some reason those two ships didn’t get along and there was bad blood between them even before that incident. I still remember they started a brawl in the Gay ‘90s room that required the Marine Barracks to be called out to support the Shore Patrol putting it down.

I wasn’t involved in that one in any way. I’m not sorry I wasn’t.

Memories. . . And sounds like you and me might have passed each other somewhere sometime too either in Yoko or Subic. Hey, how come you didnt wave??? he he
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Paul

[xsquid]

[Paul]

Hi xsquid:

Thanks for the replies, I'm enjoying this!

“I bet out paths have crossed in subic or Yoko and I was probably waving all over the place trying to keep upright. lol.” {xsquid}

I’m betting they did too. But your description’s not helping me to remember you. . . Sorry, it’s too general! Like saying the short Filipino with black hair or something. . . LOL Just foolin’ around.

“went into a bar owned by a woman named mickey.” {xsquid}

This may be wild. Mickey wasn’t a petite gal in her late forties, a good gal and kind of a character, who usually tended a place called Campa X (second story above a place called the Magnet) on the left end of the Honch where they opened in the evening and stayed open through to about 3 or 4 in the morning was she?

Hey, if so, then I knew her real well (acquaintance wise I mean)!

“(maybe 78 also? They are tending to blur now)” {xsquid}

Man, same here. I’m still able to keep the different continents and oceans and stuff straight but the years on some of this stuff are often becoming guesstimates for me too though.


“There was a small pub right by the bow of the ship. . .”

If it’s the same, then I remember this place: A small joint with windows all around it and a few tables inside located behind where the cranes were stowed on the pier that the Oklahoma City usually tied up at and between that pier and the piers where the Worden and them used to tie up (geez, what a description), right? If it is, being so close, then we used to go over there for ‘liquid lunches’ now and then.

Say, you weren’t on the Gompers by any chance were you?

The China Fleet Club was at HMS Tamar in Hong Kong.

But, it ate at me when I typed the other post and is now too. For the life of me I can’t remember the name of the USO in Yokosuska. . I still remember the name of the Gay ‘90s room in it, the disco and country western dance halls on the second floor and the “Italian Restaurant”. . . I can see it all clearly, but I just can’t remember the name. The China Seas Club? (That's a SWAG after you mentioned China Fleet Club -- it's sounding right to me now, but I don't trust myself). Doggone it, it bugged so much that I took a look but can't can't find anything with its name in the cruise books or photo albums.

“You know I would not trade my first 4 years in the service for 4 years in any college.”{xsquid}

Truth to tell, I wouldn’t either. Although, I wound up doing both. The navy first and then college. And actually over 11 years in the service: two regular navy enlistments followed by one in the reserves, with about five months reserves time between regular enlistments. Since I joined before the obligation was upped to 8 years and my total active-inactive reserve obligation was six years, I was able to enter the reserves with no obligation.

Since I joined in ’77, I just missed being qualified for the GI bill by a matter of months. Since those of us already in didn't qualify for it when the the new GI Bill was enacted in the ‘80s, then I got the VEAP. Uncle Sam kicked in 2 bucks for every one that I did up to a combined limit of $8,100. So, I received a net $5,400 by the time of the last check.

Obviously not enough to pay for college but the monthly checks were a big help and I appreciated them. Mostly it was saving the bulk of my re-enlistment bonus and savings during my second enlistment and then going to a state university in my home state where I was still resident and getting in-state tuition rates that paid for my college. The pay check from the Reserves helped and so did some working on the side, and then student loans rounding it out. Those I paid off as quick as I could. I hate being in debt. Working offshore afterwards, and the cyclical nature of the industry taught me not to get overextended.

I never did go to shore duty, and never wanted to. I did get a C school at the beginning of the second enlistment. That’s close enough. . . Lot’s of fun and good times in Wisconsin on the weekends that year too, even if north Chicago was kinda the pits and training centers a bit of a pain in some ways. And the CO at Great Lakes taught those guys a lesson while I was there. Sailors were being mugged and rolled regularly but the city wouldn't do anything about increasing police protection. So he put the town off limits except to drive through only. Within a couple months, the business got together and pressured the city council to increase police protection. They may not have given a Tinker's damn about the sailors, but they sure cared about and depended on sailor's pay checks. . .

Anyway, I’ll be honest, I didn’t care much for the Reserves. I didn’t hate it or anything radical like that and did enjoy a lot of it, particularly the active time which was at the weapons engineering station at Port Huneme (where I learned that Sea Bees barracks are the best). I just decided they had more of what I was least fond of in the regular navy and not much of what I was most fond of (ie. a regular profession and job) so that I wasn’t going to make a career of it and wasn't going to re-enlist when that enlistment ended. I’ll admit, making Chief and the potential of going LDO after graduation did give me a moment’s pause. In the end, I stayed with the decision and didn’t ship over. No regrets now for that decision either, and not only because of what followed in the navy in the ‘90s. A lot of friends who did make careers of the navy went through that mess with a few of them retiring at the first opportunity because of their disgust at the sight of it all.

Even without that though, I don’t believe that I’d have any regrets now for not having stayed in the Reserves anyway. Overall, I enjoyed it all. I liked the navy, including sea duty. Definitely lot’s of good memories in the navy and knew a lot of good folks. One good deal, it was quiet for the first couple years after I found them in the late '90s, but in the last few years I’ve been making contact with some old friends after we had lost touch with each other over the years on the ships associations (I guess that’s what to call them?) web sites.
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Paul

[Paul]

“Yokohama was a good place to go when the midway and other ships staioned there were aout also, but that's another story.”{xsqid}

Oh man. At least in general, then I think I might know that “another story” that you mean. The club at the housing in Yokohama used to be packed and hopping whenever the Midway Battle Group left for the IO; man, starting the first night! A lot like some of the joints in National City with the “WestPac widows” on Saturday nights . . . We had a First Class who headed for Yokohama immediately whenever the Midway left port. He almost got himself hurt seriously over there once because of it. . .

Those were rough days for the Midway and her battle group, the Worden, Parsons, Kirk, Lockwood? (that guy I met in the transient barracks and went to Tokyo with was waiting for the Kirk while I was waiting for the Okie City); one IO cruise back-to-back after another because of Iran.

That whole commitment stayed a pain until the navy started using east coast ships instead of only us on the west coast and West Pac. In that sense, I was fortunate being on the Okie City those years, since all of our steaming in those days was throughout the western Pacific and we didn’t go to the Indian Ocean, except for a port call to Panang, Malaysia which was a good port actually, but quite different from the Midway’s cruises.

I didn’t see time spent on Gonzo or Kermit station down in the Arabian Sea or up in the Persian Gulf until I went to the Horne out of San Diego. Those days, and through the ‘80s, the carriers stayed down in the Arabian Sea and never went up into the Persian Gulf. The NTDS equipped CGs and DDGs in the Gulf were the link to the Air Force AWACS flying out of Saudia Arabia and the battle groups in the Arabian Sea and then beyond. . . .

Even then there were minor glitches to be worked out. We steamed alone from PI to the Arabian Sea. We spent Thanksgiving Day ’80 loading ammunition out at the magazine in Subic and then got underway. They piped Holiday Routine just after entering the open sea after leaving Subic at about quarter to four that afternoon! Thanks. . . When we arrived on station the Ranger and Independence Battle groups were there. The Independence BG may have been the first use of east coast ships, I think. That’s when we learned east coast oilers and ships used a different probe and receptacle than west coast ships for refueling. We learned it the hard way while alongside in the middle of what was supposed to have been, but for obvious reasons turned out not to be, an UNREP to refuel J

That got straitened out quick enough. There were glitches. For one reason I forget and then later because the USS Reeves out of Pearl who was supposed to relieve us, had problems, our 6-month WestPac turned into a more than 9-month WestPac. And really, not a WestPac as such, we passed through and into and out of the Indian Ocean where we spent the bulk of the cruise. That was back when everyone was breaking all of the old WWII time-at-sea records. . .
No complaints. It was the Fox out of San Diego, If I remember correctly, whose 6-month WestPac became an almost one-year WestPac with most of her time in the Indian Ocean the year before us I think. . . Better nine months than one year, I say. . . We were the missile cruiser on station in the Gulf the day that the hostages were flown out of Tehran. That little tidbit of Trivial Pursuit was my minor contribution to the history of the ship on the Horne Association’s website.

Oh. That cruise was the first I learned that the USO hires little no-name night-club and lounge-act type bands and such. . . . We got a real beaut while on station up in the Persian Gulf. It had two gals in it that wore black skin-tight spandex outfits, neither one could have possibly been under 45 years old. One, a brunette, was very heavy (to be generous) and both very busty. The other was a petite blonde who had a thing for tattoos, so was hanging close to where the snipes were sitting since she got a couple with full size tattoos on their chests to take their shirts off for her. She loved it. The big finale was a song they wrote themselves named “Iran” and the words were sung to Eric Clapton’s Cocaine. I still remember the line, “When Tehran goes, there’ll be a nuclear glow – In Iran” and the chorus, “I don’t like, I don’t like, I don’t like –drums- Iran. I’ll be honest, we loved it. The rest of their act was pure crap.

The carriers down south got the full Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders and all of the name entertainers.

Other than the tapestries and stuff in Bahrain, my big souvenir from that cruise was a Persian Gulf Yacht Club T-Shirt with “I got my tan off the coast of Iran” on the back picked up in Subic on the way home.

Oh, whoever wrote “once was enough” regarding Mombassa, then I agree. Warm Guinness doesn’t go down all that “smooth”, for sure. Although a few of us went on one of those camera safaris while were there. That was cool. We stayed at the Hilton on the game preserve and got to see the animals come in to the watering hold nearby in the evening. The next morning when the driver in the van I was in went off the road and starting chasing a family of warthogs was a hoot. A few jackals by the side of the road and them standing their a few feet way staring back at us when we stopped pretty well demonstrated how many tourists were probably running around in vans on that game preserve. Too wild to pet would my guess, but not exactly Wild Kingdom either! But it was a good time. Saw Mount Kilamanjaro off in Tanzania, Giraffes, elephants (their butts as they ran away anyway), Ostriches . . . Saw the Portuguese fort with the Duke of Albuquerque’s coat of arms. . . And not only for the seeing, but I will say that Mombassa was better than Karachi.

Anyway, by the time I was back in the Persian Gulf on a DDG out of Norfolk in ’84, it was all running smooth and no breakdowns by anyone was extending anyone else. Of course, by then the US was buidling our 600-ship navy too. Oh, and better Karachi than Djitouti (which fortunately we only stopped to refuel at. Saw my first tanker that had been hit by an exocet there. We steamed over and back together with the Stark out of Mayport. That was another one of those "bad blood" releationships between crews for some reason. For something that had happened sometime or another, our snipes and theirs didn't get along at all.

To be honest, I never made what many would know as a regular Med cruise. The Persian Gulf modified it in ’84 and then Libya in ’86. I've been to a couple ports on liberty in Spain and Italy, but not the full-round of ports typical of the old Med cruises. I enjoyed the port calls to ports in the Caribbean and central American ports while homported out of Norfolk though. In fact, I just came back from a trip on business in St. Croix last year. That was a flood of memories and interesting to be on the island instead of off of it looking at it while running the underwater torpedo range (or what it was called). The silhouette of the lights on the hills around Christiansted were virtually identical after all these years - a real case of Deja Vu.
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Paul

[sore loser]

[Paul]

I thought the wood carvings were better than anyplace else we had been. My bro - inlaw took a trip to one of the wild animal parks inKenya, and had a great time. I regret not doing that. {SL}

You’re right. Stupidly, I forgot about those carvings from that cruise in my description. The wood carvings in Mombbassa were by far the best of anywhere that I’d ever been, Asia, Africa, Europe or anywhere in the Americas. And dirt cheap too. In fact (and the reason that I say “stupidly”), right now I’m glancing up at 3 small elephants, 2 zebras and a ‘family’ of 4 gazelle on top of a book case to my left alongside some porcelain figurines from Korea. The Temple Dog from Taiwan (although, Jade and Teak were the specialties in Taiwan as I recall) and the glass case enclosed silk-dressed dolls from Japan are on the other side of the room.

I have some decent carvings from the Philippines too, including a clever little wooden calendar that uses blocks for the date, day, and months that are nice enough, but, you’re right, the carvings in Mombassa were the best. Some others I bought there, including a really nice set of 4 Giraffes similar to this set of gazelle, I gave to various members of the family as gifts.

One guy bought a carving that was like a 3 to 4 ft giraffe. It was huge. And heavy. I was Petty Officer of the Watch when he hauled it aboard. Sometimes when it comes to mind, I wonder what he did with that thing or if he still has it?

I have regrets of stuff not done or seen from a number of ports too. In my experience and from other's description who went on them, then sometimes the package tours offered in some ports really weren’t all that great and usually I stayed away from them.

I think that this was only one of three that I took my whole time in. The worst of the three was my first that was signed up for and taken in Inchon. Included in that one was about four hours spent touring a diesel engine factory and viewing one of the company’s promotional films. Signing up on that tour was a big mistake and waste of a full day of three liberty days in Inchon during that visit, believe me. Most of my pals were all roaming the Yellow House district and gave me a bad time for being foolish enough for trying out the tour rather than being with them. . . I deserved it.

A one day tour taken in Bahrain in early ’81 wasn’t too bad, except for the end of it. We drove a couple hours in the desert past pipelines and stuff (shades of West Texas / eastern NM) out to the ‘tree of Life’ (or something like that) and back. A lousy tree out in the middle of nowhere. We piled out of the vans, took a bunch of pictures of the thing (for lack of anything better to do), speculated on an underground water line, a couple guys took a leak on it, loaded back up and drove miles back into town. . . geez. . . My guess is that maybe Bahrain did it as a play on the epic of Gilgamesh legend or something. . . I really don’t know and no one really said.

But, hey, I was glad that I took that photo safari in Kenya. That really was a good deal and a lot of fun. It was a two-day trip and cost us something like 70 bucks each, or something in that range I think. I still have a bunch of pictures and was glad that I went on that one.
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Paul

[Paul]

“The carriers down south got the full Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders and all of the name entertainers.” {Paul}

“Besides you didn't miss much, we always thought of them as "Miss American and her Dancing Bears". At that point in my life, slant eyes were more attractive.” {SL}

Hi SL:
Ok. You caught me. I took a cheap shot at you carrier sailors and Marines and the squids on the escorts with you down in the Arabian Sea on that one and deserve a comeuppance for taking it.

Hey, honestly, I don’t kid myself that the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders jumping around on their flight deck for a few hours versus the two-bit lounge act that we got is really all that big of a deal.

It was mention of the Midway’s IO cruises that brought on the memories of the Indian Ocean back during that time and my verbosity. From ’78 through ’80, her and her escorts out of Yokosuska especially put in some serious time steaming in those “square circles” in the Arabian Sea. And being out of Yokosuka, she was making those cruises back to back, after only weeks or a couple months back home in port. It was a tougher deal for them than the ships off of the west coast that joined her, but no picnic for anyone really. Hence my mention of our breaking all of those old WWII time-at-sea records during that time, mainly by the carriers and their escorts, in fact.

If I remember correctly, then on that cruise in one stretch we spent something like almost 130 something days at sea underway in the Arabian Sea and the Persian Gulf in a something like a 140 day period. Our time underway was broken up by 5 days in Mombbassa and 5 days in Bahrain, once for 2 days and once for 3 days. And port and starboard duty sections while in port (another reason the game preserve tour in Kenya was appealing). For the Ranger and Indepencence and some of her escorts, then it was a straight 120-something days at sea without a single port call.

From about ’78 through at least ’82, the navy was stretched pretty thin meeting the new commitment in the Persian Gulf while maintaining all of the others world-wide as well.

And then with the lack of Talos cruisers by then, or anything to replace them, the guys on the carrier’s escorts in the Arabian Sea had to put up with the Iranian’s harrassment now and then of making their periodic runs of strike aircraft in the direction of the US ships, but staying out of range and distant enough to avoid starting an actual incident, so always turning at the last minute. It gave the Tomcats in the CAP something to do and added a periodic moment of excitement for us CG and DDG sailors, but, hey, for the most part that was mostly long tedious duty for everyone.
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Paul

[Paul]

“From my point of view, that makes up for all of of the liberty ports we don't get to go to where you DD's DE's, CG's riders do.” {SL}

For what it’s worth (coming from the guy who took the cheap shot on the USO entertainment in the first place), then I think that this a valid point.

For anybody, then I suspect that we'd all agree that liberty and “world travel” was light years away from the stuff of recruiting ads. Anybody remember the commercial that showed a ship in Hong Kong, a shot of the anchor being dropped, and a voice over after some bells ringing, saying “Port of Call, Port of Call, Hong Kong, Liberty Call” or something like that, followed a shot of guys rushing down a ladder. . .

Man, way different from reality: hours spent after dropping anchor cleaning and scrubbing like most housewives couldn't even imagine, and standing zone inspections before liberty call was passed hours later. . . No mention of anything like “Cindarella Liberties” either in those recruiting adds and lots of us had plenty of those while we were in too. And what does Port and Starboard Duty sections mean?

No question, I’ve found over the years that guy’s experiences from their time in the navy were of course similar to one anothers but also very different, even during the same period of time and on like class ships at the time, but also depending upon the type of command or commands that each sailor served on. Hey, even on the ships that I was on, either the ship or the particular division would go through often substantial changes over time due to changes in command or rotations or whatever.

I ran into a retired Chief Corpsman working offshore in ’98 on the same derrick barge I was on who had been on the Horne, but years after I’d served on her. In some ways it was as though we’d both served on entirely different ships, even though she was the same ship.

I won’t quibble about the differences due to “4.5 acres” versus the surface area of a ship less than 500 to 560 feet long with a 40 ft beam at the widest point, dominated by superstructure, missile launchers, gun mounts, ASROC launchers, torpedo tubes, boat davits, Captains gig, motor whale boat, windlasses . . . or the differences in duties pulled by the average hand because of differences in crew sizes of 300 – 500 or so versus 3,000 or so (discounting air wings). I was part of a flight ops crew, but only for helo ops off of a cruiser. It sure had nothing to do with my rating, it was purely an auxiliary duty, and there was no flight deck pay or anything for it back then like they get now, which I didn’t see as a problem although, being sailors, some bitched about it even then, but not vehemently, even those who did. UNREP stations and most every member of the crew had one. Underway watches of one kind or another, then the same. VERTREPs and First Class and below on working parties was common. Again, no complaints, for those kind of commands, there was no other way to do it and at our ages no reason not to. I even spent some time on watches in addition to my normal duties on the surface side of CIC on the Horne for a brief period due to Operations being undermanned. I'm a curous type and ask a lot of question, and learned a lot about the air side of CIC and about NTDS and some about electronic countermeasures too – while on both of the smaller commands I served on -- that I count as being more aware of than familiar with, so am aware of some things regarding navy air operations and the “small boys” roll in them that many folks aren’t familiar with from their service. That was an “auxiliary” duty too. It's also something I count as a positive side of being a member of a small crew. Snipe, twigit or those of us in between, or supply or admin types, then we all knew each other and mechanically and technically speaking, there wasn't much in routine problems and short of major overhaul type work that couldn't be dealt with because of it. I take a lot of pride remembering back on at times being part of what a groups of guys with various skills mostly ranging in age 18 through their late 20s, often brought into the service by us, were capable of doing out in the middle of nowhere sometimes. It's one of the aspects included when I speak about fond memories and no regrets. Frankly, our living together packed into those spaces around the clock for months under those conditions overall gave a meaning to "tolerance" of and between each other that's deeper than anything I've seen from anyone met in my post-service years since. That's a fact. Including the Horne which had a particulary rowdy crew when I was aboard her, some fights between the deck apes and helo crewman, and tended to be the kind of ship that often enough received "don't come back again" messages from some of the ports we visited after leaving. I'll be honest, we weren't perfect and I'm not prone to romanticizing or mere nostalgia. We just weren't anywhere near close to being an undisciplined rabble, and we did the job that was given us to do, even when undermanned, under heavy schedules, with most of our time steaming underway and pretty well. Most of us were pretty 'wired,' so to speak, when we hit Hong Kong coming out of the IO and wen't happy at all to see the Ranger Battle Group and others in port . . .

Guys met over the years, including some at work, who served on carriers have given me details of some their duty too. And the same for some who served on submarines. That’s why I won’t quibble. I list some things that some times gets exaggerated as comparison by some of us former ‘tin can’ sailors (and I really wasn’t one when compared to the FRAM class cans or fast frigrates), but I understand, that even with the differences, then I'm aware of more than enough to know that service on carriers wasn’t the Love Boat or a luxury cruise. Of course, the sheer size of carriers is the only the reason that a weapon as large, complex, and packing as diverse a 'punch' as a destroyer or even a fast frigate gets referrred to as a "small boy" in the first place. Only in an organization like the the navy. . . .

But, I’ll agree with your statement here. Over the years, the ships that I served on steamed as part of Carrier Battle Groups and we also steamed independently by our self or with another ship. We even steamed with the Iowa Battle Group for a time off central America and got the show of her firing a full 15 gun broadside for some central American big wig flown out for the occasion that was impressive. Half a mile or more behind her and just the shock of the sound wave from it felt like a boat or something had physically hit our own ship. A port in Honduras that I don’t even remember the name of anymore had some of the most beautiful beaches I’d ever seen – we tied up to a ragged pier built for a fishing fleet. Like Pattaya for everyone and plenty of other places, some places we had to anchor out and even wade the last short distance ashore from the boats that ran us in on liberty. The Horne had made a southPac that all agreed was one fantastic liberty port after another just prior to my reporting aboard her. Having served on the 7th Fleet Flagship especially meant visiting ports that most ships never visited. Otaru in Hokkaido was tiny but a good port and visiting Sapporo and the Manchurian BBQ was great and after years of visiting that port off an on, we all knew where to go for it. Very few navy ships ever visited Otaru. In addition there were some various aspects of duty aboard her that would be foreign to lots of guys. Being used essentially as a ‘backdrop’ for the graduation of Korean Navy Naval Cadets at their academy at Chinhae (sp?), all hands manning the rail for hours because the Koreans had nothing the size of the Oklahama City was no great shakes and there was next to NOTHING but dive bars and such in Chinhae for our one-night liberty, as I recall.

So I understand your point and mostly agree. I’ll even give you another aspect that if you only served on carriers that you may or may not have considered, and alluded to above. On the ships that I served on, most of us hated pulling into liberty ports when Carriers or Carrier Battle Groups were in, including, non-liberty working ports like Subic or Yokosuka.

For us that usually meant that there was going to be 5,000 to 7,000 guys hitting the beach on liberty. Any long periods underway for them then it meant that they’d be “dusting” the port with money and prices for everything were going to surge up up up. So while for us it was a drag to see a carrier or battle group in port while we were pulling in, then I imagine that for any guys who only served on carriers and for their “world travel experience” while in, then it must been a routine. Maybe an aspect that you never thought of, so, since I took the earlier cheap shot, then in fairness, I’ll point it.

As an aside, then one thing that I saw in one of those “how to simulate your time in the navy” lists showing up on some of the Ships Associations Websites, included, “Dress up in your best clothes, spend a couple weeks running the red light districts of Europe, and call it ‘world travel’.”

I got a kick out of that one, and could easily relate to the point. My guess is that whatever type class ship anyone served on, at whatever point in time, most others who ever served as Fleet Sailors probably could too.

PS. After being sent to the East Coast, then “The Gut” became a new slang term added to my vocabularly that I never head while in West Pac or the west coast – that was the name among east coast sailors for those parts of town ubiquitous to most big port towns, on whatever continent, world wide.
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Paul