SwiftVets.com

[Lendorien]

Interview with Captain Adrian Lonsdale
Transcript of Charlie Sykes Show on WTMJ 620
In Milwaukee, WI
August 10(?), 2004
Transcribed August 14, 2004

CHARLIE SYKES: We’re fortunate right now to be joined on the line by retired Captain Adrian Lonsdale. Good Morning Captain.

ADRIAN LONSDALE: Morning sir. How are you doing this morning?

CHARLIE SYKES: Good. I appreciate it. Now my understanding is that you were the operational commander of Operation SeaLords, which uh…

ADRIAN LONSDALE: (??) …in the fourth coastal zone of Vietnam, and that’s essentially the west coast and that’s where most of the action took place.

CHARLIE SYKES: And… and you were in the chain of command, John Kerry served under you.

ADRIAN LONSDALE: Yes, he was in one of the divisions under my command. There were two divisions, one coast guard of patrol boats and one of swift boats and he was in the swift boats division.

CHARLIE SYKES: Now, you joined… you announced that you were part of this Swift Boats Veterans for Truth. I wanted to talk to you in particular because you have a somewhat different position than some of the others. A lot of the others have been critical of John Kerry all along. You had supported John Kerry when he ran for reelection as senator back in 1996 but you have changed your mind… or have you changed you mind now that he’s running for president?

ADRIAN LONSDALE: Yes, that’s true. I went up and spoke up for him at a press conference when he was accused of atrocities in Vietnam, the same things he accused us of in ‘71. But I thought maybe he had mellowed. But then I read a biography of him in Vietnam, three or four months ago and it was the same old stuff and up to that time I had decided to stay out of it completely. But when I read the book and saw how he treated me and Admiral Hoffmann and other people, I decided I had to get back into it.

CHARLIE SYKES: Very specifically, what were the things that John Kerry said in that book that you believe were untrue?

ADRIAN LONSDALE: Well, first of all, he characterized then Captain Hoffmann, now Admiral Hoffmann, as the kind of a… a monster who loved to send people to their deaths, you know, and so on, and in my mind, Admiral Hoffmann is one of the finest Navy officers I ever served with and I don’t think that his… his description of Admiral Hoffmann was at all fair. And then he went on, he described a meeting with me which never occurred and then there were numerous others. He talked about the Son Bodai (sp?) Massacre, which is an operation that I ordered. He said seventeen people were wounded, well three people were wounded, and one of them is a fellow named Joe Ponder who would be interesting for you to talk to. And… so there were a number of exaggerations and outright lies in this thing, and…

CHARLIE SYKES: Now some, some of the controversy has been focussing on the medals he won. You… you are more concerned about the comments he made after returning home from Vietnam.

ADRIAN LONSDALE: Uh, yes I was. I felt that he betrayed the hundreds of thousands of… of patriotic Americans who had fought over there in Vietnam in response to what they thought was right and they were following the orders of their Commander in Chief. And he portrayed us as war criminals, murderers, rapists and so on, and demoralized those fighting people and as it was, when we came home, for instance, we didn’t wear our uniforms; we almost had to hide the fact that we were Vietnam veterans and, I blame that on him and others.

CHARLIE SYKES: Now… now, do you… you remember, you spent time with… with John Kerry, in fact we talked about that, did you meet him on a… how many occasions?

ADRIAN LONSDALE: I… I met him on a… I think a couple of occasions in our little, what we call our Officer’s Club in An Thoi, was where my headquarters, which was actually just a… a little shack, but we had some wide ranging of discussions on the war, and at the time, I remember him because he was whining about the lack of air support and the futility of the operation, and so on. And… so that’s how I remember him as distinguished from the others.

CHARLIE SYKES: Do you… how do you react to the controversy that’s going on right now? You had indicated before you had wanted to stay out of this. In the past you had been cited as a Kerry supporter…

ADRIAN LONSDALE: Well, I’m in complete agreement with the Veterans for the Truth that we do not want him as Commander in Chief because he could not command the loyalty of the armed forces of the United States.

CHARLIE SYKES: Do you believe he earned the medals that he was granted?

ADRIAN LONSDALE: Well, I didn’t have first hand knowledge, but all my knowledge is from talking to people who did have the first hand knowledge. And I know that, for instance, his first purple heart, his doctor that examined him removed a small sliver from his arm and covered it up with a band-aid and told him to forget it, and his commanding officer, Skip Hebert also looked at it and told him to forget it and somehow he got it. And that’s kind of a mystery as to how he got it, and I thinks there’s some questions on his other medals too, but you’d be better off to talk to the people who have first hand information and who were there.

CHARLIE SYKES: Now, when he was serving in Vietnam you were commander. You had a rank of commander?

ADRIAN LONSDALE: Yes, I was a Commander at the time, yes

CHARLIE SYKES: And you commanded two division flotillas operating near the Cambodian border?

ADRIAN LONSDALE: From the Cambodian border down to the tip of Kamal (sp) Peninsula which is the southern end of Vietnam… it was the west coast of Vietnam.

CHARLIE SYKES: And as you know, the latest controversy involves his claim of that he actually spent Christmas of 1968 in Cambodia, in that country. In the book the now all the members of the command… of the command structure says there was no way he was in Cambodia, that is simply not true.

ADRIAN LONSDALE: And I know Admiral Hoffmann researched that very thoroughly, and he knows better the total operation than anybody and he determined and others determined, that Kerry was about 55 miles from the Cambodian border, and I think he said contrary, I mean, Nixon at the time, was in power and Nixon wasn’t even inaugurated yet.

CHARLIE SYKES: So there were about 50… these were about… about how many boats were in the divisions you commanded?

ADRIAN LONSDALE: I think, I’m not sure, I’d have to guess, I’d say maybe 12, 15 something like that. And there was about 8 or 9 coast guard patrol boats. And then I also had operational control of the larger coast guard cutters that patrolled off shore.

CHARLIE SYKES: Now most of the other officers, including the chain of command have taken the same position you have about John Kerry. The Kerry Campaign is going to turn around, of course, and point out that the men who served on the boat with him tend to be very supportive of him, and including the man who claims that John Kerry saved his life. How do you account… how do you explain to people outside of this, those of us who weren’t there, the difference of opinion? Because the people on the boat are right now showing up at the Democratic National Convention, and other commanders like yourself are saying this man is just simply unfit to serve.

ADRIAN LONSDALE: Well, I think you ought to, you know, you haven’t talked to them all, the five people who of course are being hauled around and being put up at motels, and that and receiving a lot of adoration. But there are others. One I mentioned before, his name is Joe Ponder and he’s a guy you… you should talk to. He was one of Kerry’s gunners who got wounded and was partially paralyzed from the waist down, and he’s not being hauled around like the rest of them, so you haven’t talked to them all.

CHARLIE SYKES: Ok…

ADRIAN LONSDALE: And, a boat crewman doesn’t have the overall picture. He knows what his commander orders him to do and so on, but he doesn’t know what the orders were and whether the commander was doing what he was supposed to do and so on.

CHARLIE SYKES: Is this a matter, for you and the other commanders, the other men who served in the swift boat division… Is this a matter of honor for you?

ADRIAN LONSDALE: Yes it is. We’re very concerned that… you know, it didn’t make much difference until suddenly it appeared that he might be the Commander in Chief of our armed forces. And all of the sudden it became a very important matter. If the Democratic nominee were anybody else, we wouldn’t even be in existence.

CHARLIE SYKES: The…yeah, obviously one of the spins is going to be is that you’re simply republican front group

ADRIAN LONSDALE: The… We have no connection with the Republican Party, in fact there are several members in our group that are independents and Democrats. They only thing they have in common is they all served in Vietnam in the… and somehow were associated with the swiftboat operations.

CHARLIE SYKES: Captain, I appreciate you joining me this morning.

ADRIAN LONSDALE: Ok, and I sure appreciate the opportunity to let us put forth our point of view on this whole matter.

CHARLIE SYKES: Well, any time. I appreciate it

ADRIAN LONSDALE: And I thank you sir.

CHARLIE SYKES: That was former… retired captain Adrian Lonsdale.

[kate]

Charlie Sykes
http://www.620wtmj.com/620programs/charliesykes/

The above Interview with Adrian Lonsdale Aug 10
Listen here…….

http://www.620wtmj.com/620audio/AdrianLonsdale.rm
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one of..... We The People

[kate]

An Interview with Van Odell, a Swift Boat Veteran for Truth
http://www.pipelinenews.org/index.cfm?page=cox%2Ehtm
August 16, 2004
By Judson Cox

Judson Cox: Who are you, and who are the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth?

Van Odell: I served in the U.S. Navy from October 1966 to October 1972. I was assigned to Coastal Squadron 1 on Swift Boats as a Gunners Mate in Vietnam, on January 9, 1969. During the period January 9, 1969 through July 1969 I served in Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi, RVN. While assigned to Cos Div 11 I served on PCF's 93, 35, and 10. I was on many of the river patrols that John Kerry was also assigned. During this time I observed his behavior and some of the incidents that are in dispute. My battle station as Gunners mate was the twin 50-cal gun tub; this position was the highest point on a swift and allowed a 360 degree view of any action.
The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is a group of 254 swift boat veterans, 60 of whom served with John Kerry. We were by his side during the events for which he received his medals. We know the truth.

JC: Why have you come forward now?

VO: We came forward because Sen. Kerry seeks to become the President of the United States of America. We believe that he is unfit to be president, and to make this man Commander in Chief would be demoralizing and dangerous for our military. Also, I now have a young grandson who means the world to me. He is young enough to think his grandfather is the greatest; without trying, I am his hero. It cuts me to the quick to think one day he would study the history of a president who served with me in Viet Nam and read the lies of atrocities committed by Swift Boat Sailors, the lies John Kerry told. What others think about me is nothing compared to what my grandson thinks about his grandfather.

JC: What were your experiences with John Kerry in Vietnam?

VO: During the month of March our crew was given a river patrol mission along with several other boat crews on the Bay Hop River. During our run in, and part of the run out of the river, we encountered no hostile fire.
As we exited the river PCF 3 was the lead boat, we were second in the line, PCF 51 was astern of our craft. The other boats were lined up beside us including Kerry's boat PCF 94. During the transit we encountered a fishing weir (gill net) stretched across the middle of the river with just enough room on either side to allow a Swift boat to pass. We passed the fishing weir river left. As the 3 boat passed the weir on the narrowest part of the river it was hit by a mine, which lifted it completely out of the water. I immediately began firing my twin 50's towards river left to suppress any fire. I fired a couple of hundred rounds and realized we were not receiving any return fire from either bank. The other boats quit firing and we commenced rescue operations for the PCF 3 crew and boat. WE DID NOT RECEIVE ANY FIRE FROM EITHER BANK. Our boat picked up members of the disabled PCF-3. I continued to watch all the area for any VC activity and witnessed the majority of the events of the day.
John Kerry received a Bronze Star for this incident, claiming that he saved Jim Rassman's life, at the risk of his own, while receiving hostile fire. That simply did not happen.

JC: What is your opinion of Sen. Kerry's fitness for the
presidency given these experiences?

VO: He is not fit to be Commander in Chief.

JC: What are the most important facts the voters should know about Kerry's service in Vietnam?

VO: He lied. He lied about his service. He lied before the Congress of the United States about atrocities committed by Vietnam Veterans. His "eye witness accounts" of rapes, murders and torture by Swift Boat sailors were fabricated, and tarred honorable veterans with a stain that still exists today. His entire career in politics and his campaign for the presidency is a lie.

JC: How have the Kerry campaign and the Democratic Party reacted to your message?

VO: They have lied about our service in Vietnam with Kerry; they lied about our political affiliations. And they are suing us to stop us from exercising our freedom of speech.

JC: What is your party affiliation, and for whom will you vote for president?

VO: I have no party affiliation; I have voted a split ticket all my voting life. In this election the only decision I have made so far is I will NOT support or vote for John Kerry.

JC: Who should have more credibility, and why, the Swift Boat Vets for Truth or the band of brothers?

VO: There are 7 men that stand behind Senators Kerry's stories. There are 254 Swift Boat Veterans that stand with us. Out of the 254 there are 60 who served directly with John Kerry and have first hand knowledge of his activities in Vietnam and they include Steve Gardner who served as Kerry's Gunners Mate. We all condemn his lies. The 7 who support the Senator are on his payroll. What we have to gain is our good name back after being called war criminals by a serial liar.

JC: Have you been threatened, either with physical harm or legally?

VO: Not personally. We are being sued by the DNC and Kerry Campaign to end our right to freedom of speech. A freedom we already paid for with service and blood. We will not let these guys Kill our first amendment right.

JC: How do you answer the issue of the funding of your group?

VO: We accept donations from Americans who are interested in getting the truth out. We never allow any donor to tell us what to say. It's our message and it will not be changed by outsiders. Right now our largest donor is the American people. Since the ad started we have received 5000 donations totaling $300,000.00.

JC: Is there anything else you would like to add, that I have not asked?

VO: Kerry recently recanted his statement that he was in Cambodia under illegal orders during Christmas 1968. This is the second lie he is admitting and I think his house of cards is starting to fall.

JC: Mr. Odell, thank you for your service to our country, for your bravery in standing for the truth and for granting me this interview.

Judson Cox is a political columnist from the mountains of North Carolina. As a college student, and President of the Foundation for Conservative American Values, he has a unique perspective on matters of politics, economics and culture.
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one of..... We The People

[gilliam]

Local vet recalls time on Kerry's swiftboat (Mike Medeiros)

http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories/0,1413,86~10671~2334602,00.html

[Lendorien]

'Scarborough Country'
On MSNBC
August 16, 2004

Full show transcript at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5733860/


JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Tonight, top headline: the battle rages over John Kerry‘s war record. The real deal? It‘s time to separate fact from fiction.

Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, where no passport is required, and only common sense is allowed.

Some vets are now saying that John Kerry is a war hero they‘d love to see in the Oval Office. Others are saying that the Kerry legend is based on lies, and that he is unfit for command. But who is telling the truth? We‘re going to cut through the hype and the ideology, give you the facts, and let you decide.

And then when a sex scandal caused Jack Ryan to drop out of the race for a Illinois senate seat, rising Democratic star Barack Obama seemed unbeatable. But Alan Keyes is here tonight to tell us why he thinks Obama is too radical for the U.S. Senate.

Plus, author Robert Reich is going to be here to tell us why liberals are going to win in the battle for America.

When it comes to John Kerry‘s war record, what story should we believe? “The Washington Times” Tony Blankley wrote this. “An impartial reader of “Unfit for Command” would have to conclude that the book is either a pack of lies or John Kerry is in fact, a reckless, lying man who misrepresented the facts in order to receive medals he didn‘t deserve, and is indeed unfit to command even a tugboat, let alone the United States military as president.”

With me now to discuss the book, John O‘Neill, who took over the command of John Kerry‘s swift boat in Vietnam. He‘s also of course the author of “Unfit for Command.” And we also have John Hurley. John is the national director of Vietnam Veterans for John Kerry.

Gentlemen, I want to thank both of you for being with us tonight. I actually watched you on Friday night. Seemed like more of a food fight than a debate, but you know, this is such an important issue. And I just want to tell you all personally why, for me, this is such an important issue.

It‘s because for guys like me that haven‘t served in the military, but respect the flag, respect our men and women who have served in uniform, I think we should pay great tribute to those who serve in uniform. And when there are issues like this that come forward, I think we need to look into them. It seems telling the truth and who‘s lying, because these facts just don‘t square up.

What I‘m going to try to do tonight is I‘m going to ask you all the questions. I‘m going to try to stay out of the way and let you all go through it calmly, point-by-point. I want to start with a couple of questions, just sort of house cleaning questions to start off.

John O‘Neill on Friday, you were accused, egad, of being a Texas Republican, and it was strongly suggested that you were doing George W. Bush‘s bidding. I want to ask you first of all, have you talked to anybody in the Bush campaign at any point while putting this book together, or have you had any help or any support whatsoever from the Bush campaign in writing “Unfit For Command?”

JOHN O‘NEILL, AUTHOR, “UNFIT FOR COMMAND”: I‘ve had absolutely no help. If I were a Republican, I‘d be proud to be a Republican. If I were a Democrat, I‘d be proud to be a Democrat. But there are 254 guys that are swiftees that signed our letter. There are over 60 swiftees who participated in and are direct sources for this book. The Navy didn‘t send Republicans or Democrats to An Thoi. It just sent people to An Thoi.

SCARBOROUGH: John Hurley, let me ask you. Does the Kerry campaign have any information that you know of that the Bush campaign may have helped Mr. O‘Neill, or more importantly, let‘s talk about it more generally. Because things like this are always so hard to prove in politics. Does the Kerry campaign believe that the Bush campaign in any way orchestrated the release of this book, or helped Mr. Hurley or are they just sort of riding this wave?

JOHN HURLEY, VIETNAM VETERANS FOR JOHN KERRY: No, I think very definitely, they‘ve helped on this, Joe. This effort is financed by a gentleman in Texas who is a strong backer of Republicans in Texas, including George Bush. He has contributed $100,000 to this effort. This is not a grassroots effort, this is a Republican financed effort.

And there‘s no question about it that George Bush has been asked by Senator John McCain, John McCain has called this effort dishonest and dishonorable. And he has asked President Bush to condemn this ad, which the president has refused to do. We‘re still waiting on him.

SCARBOROUGH: John Hurley, who is the Texas Republican that‘s contributed $100,000 to this effort?

HURLEY: His name is Bob Perry; he‘s a real estate developer in Texas. He‘s had close ties with George Bush when he was governor of Texas. He has contributed heavily to Republican causes, and Republican campaigns in Texas. Merry Spaeth, who is the director of the communications firm that is supporting this group, has very close ties to the White House, to George Bush, to the Reagan administration. This has Republican campaign effort written all over it, Joe.

SCARBOROUGH: John O‘Neill, have you had any contacts with Mr. Perry or the woman that Mr. Hurley just discussed?

O‘NEILL: Yes. I know Mr. Perry. We filed a report early, actually, showing that he‘d given $100,000 to our effort. We‘ve collected $450,000 from 5,000 donors over the past six days. We‘ll take money from anyone that we can legally take it from, that doesn‘t include political parties. We have no George Soros, and to get our message out, we need to have people contribute money.

We‘re happy to have anybody contribute money. It‘s simply false to label us as associated with any campaign. To us, this is a matter of personal honor relating to our unit. It‘s not a matter of politics. It‘s ridiculous to think that 254 navy veterans are going to come forward in this way because of anything except the history of their unit and their own integrity.

SCARBOROUGH: John Hurley, let me move on to another question, a general question before we go into the specifics of this book, the ad, and also the charges against your friend, John Kerry. A lot of Republicans thought the media was unfairly attacking George W. Bush. I guess it was about six months ago when they started questioning his service for the Texas National Guard. Those stories went on for a week or two.

I want to ask you, do you believe, does John Kerry believe, does the Kerry campaign believe that this is an unfair story, that the media should not be paying the attention that it is paying to Mr. O‘Neill‘s book, and that in fact, tonight, I shouldn‘t be talking about it, people shouldn‘t be watching this?

HURLEY: I don‘t think there‘s any question about that, Joe. I think this is completely based on lies and distortions. I think that this book is a disgrace, and I think that John McCain has it right when he says it‘s dishonest and dishonorable. I‘ll tell you why. I think the book is also cowardly. It‘s cowardly because John O‘Neill would have you believe that he is the authority on John Kerry. He never once met John Kerry in Vietnam. Not once.

He never once interviewed any of the crewmates who served with John Kerry when he won his Silver Star, his Bronze Star or his three Purple Hearts. What he is basically asking you to do, he‘s asking you to go back and look at the world in a different vain. He wants you to believe the world is flat, and that what the United States Navy did in 1969 in awarding John Kerry those medals was completely wrong and fictitious.

And somehow the Navy, which awarded these medals, was somehow duped. It is specious. It is shallow. It is as “The Washington Times,” said, a pack of lies.

SCARBOROUGH: John O‘Neill, before we go to the specifics of these medals, I know that‘s a very important part of your book, I want you to respond, though, to the charge by Mr. Hurley that you never met John Kerry in Vietnam. You‘ve never—never were close to him. So what you were writing about in this book had really no basis in firsthand fact. Is that true or false?

O‘NEILL: As far as me meeting Kerry in Vietnam, that‘s true. You just showed a picture on the air, Joe, that had 20 officers in it, Kerry in the middle. It‘s the same one they showed at the Democratic National Convention. Only one of those officers supports John Kerry.

HURLEY: That‘s not true, John O‘Neill, and you know it.

O‘NEILL: Let me finish. Twelve of them ...

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: Hold on a second, guys. Let‘s stop for a second. Mr. O‘Neill, I‘m going to let you finish, and then Mr. Hurley, I‘m going to let you respond. Mr. O‘Neill, while you‘re talking, let‘s show that picture. You talk, Mr. O‘Neill, and then Mr. Hurley, it will be your turn. Go ahead Mr. O‘Neill.

O‘NEILL: There‘s a picture of 20 officers in An Thoi. Two of them are dead. Twelve of them have signed our letter condemning John Kerry, and contributed in one fashion or another to “Unfit for Command.” There is only one officer who backs them. They sometimes claim that there are three. There‘s only one, in addition to John Kerry. The people in that picture, the people whose picture is being used over and over again illicitly all have joined our effort.

As to Senator McCain, he‘s entitled to his own opinion. More than 22 P.O.W.‘s have backed our effort. Listen, we were there. We have 60 people who won the Purple Heart. If anyone in the world has a right to speak to the conduct of our unit. It‘s our guys. We paid for it with blood.

SCARBOROUGH: John O‘Neill, I want to go back to this picture here. I want to be clear here. Can we show that picture again? It‘s going to take a second. But we‘re going to show the picture. John O‘Neill, I want to get the facts straight, because there‘s a lot of back and forth. You were claiming that only one person in this picture supports John Kerry, is that correct Mr. O‘Neill?

O‘NEILL: That‘s correct. And the picture...

SCARBOROUGH: And who is the one person? Let‘s get a name.

O‘NEILL: The one person is Skip Barker. He‘s the only one who has openly endorsed John Kerry. An identification of each person and their position can be found on the web site, swiftvets.com.

SCARBOROUGH: OK. John Hurley, now I want you to respond, because you say that‘s not true. Go ahead.

HURLEY: It‘s not true, Joe. I don‘t have the picture. I can‘t see it in front of me. But I can tell you there‘s a gentleman in there named Rich Baker and Rich Baker is quite upset that he‘s being portrayed as neutral in this. He has come out, and he has supported John Kerry. He has done it. He lives in Pennsylvania. He has been there. He has been campaigning with John Kerry.

But at the same time, the Swift Boat Veterans want you to believe that he‘s not part of this effort. That is typical of what they‘re doing in this campaign. They are continuing to distort every single issue that they can. If you go back to all of the documents that were written in 1969, you go back to John Kerry‘s fitness reports. You go back to the after action reports. You go back to the medal awards recommendations. You go back to the awards citations themselves. And every single one of those documents approved and authorized by the United States Navy supports John Kerry‘s version of events.

If you also go back and interview, as Mr. O‘Neill did not do, go back and interview the men who served with John Kerry when he was on those swift boats in 1969, the men from the 44 boat, the men from the 94 boat, every single man who was with him when he won a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts, every single one of them supports John Kerry.

It is these other swift boat veterans who are now coming back 35 years after the fact, and trying to say to you, hey, it‘s different, the world is flat. You guys got it wrong. The Navy did not get it wrong.

SCARBOROUGH: So John Hurley—hold on, Mr. O‘Neill. John Hurley, this is a question then again, we—Mr. O‘Neill has said only one person in this picture that John Kerry has used repeatedly, is supporting him. You say there are more. Do you have a number? Is it two, three, five, 10?

HURLEY: I don‘t have a number, Joe. And I don‘t have the photo in front of me. It is more than what Mr. O‘Neill has claimed. It‘s a continuation of his falsehoods. And this comes in part because he didn‘t do his homework. He and his co-author, Jerome Corsi went off and wrote this book without ever talking to the men who served on those boats with John Kerry. Not one of them.

SCARBOROUGH: Mr. O‘Neill?

O‘NEILL: As you can see, John Hurley and the Kerry campaign are liars. You are seeing exactly the same thing. You saw that picture. They‘ve had that picture for months. They‘ve used it. They now claim two of the two out of the 20 people support them. They can identify nobody else. We have had on our web site a long time the condemnation of the Kerry campaign by 12 of those people.

In addition, there are four other officers there that condemn it. As to all the ranting and claiming that we didn‘t interview people, that‘s just a bald-faced lie. You can see Mr. Hurley is not even from our squadron. He‘s a professional veteran organizer for Kerry, that‘s was in an engineering battalion. And that‘s because they can‘t find anybody to go on TV from our squadron who will actually come forward and say that anything in the book is not true.

HURLEY: What are you talking about? You never met John Kerry!

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: Gentlemen, hold on a second gentlemen. I‘m going to have to ask you all to hold on. Mr. Hurley, I‘m going to let you respond to that. We‘re going to continue the debate in a minute. We‘re also going to get to the issues that John O‘Neill talks about a great deal in this book, “Unfit for Command”. Talking about obviously the medals, the Bronze Star, the Purple Hearts, the Silver Star.

Much more ahead on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY when we return. Also, critics requesting whether Maryland native Alan Keyes has the right to challenge Barack Obama in the Illinois Senate race. Keyes says he not only has the right, but the moral obligation to do so. We‘ll ask him why later on tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH: Is John Kerry unfit for command, or the victim of a political hit job? We‘ll have more on that story when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH: Welcome back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. Still with me, John O‘Neill and John Hurley. John O‘Neill, let me go back to you. Obviously, the title of your book, “Unfit for Command,” I mean the title itself is a bombshell. I want you to give our viewers the main reason why you believe John Kerry is unfit for command.

O‘NEILL: Yes, there are two reasons why. The smaller reason for us is that he exaggerated the service in Vietnam and lied about it directly. Anyone studying the paper work can tell that. The larger reason is that when he came back to the United States, he falsely accused our unit and many other units of war crimes.

Those are accusations he continued as recently as the Democratic primaries. They were total falsehoods. Tonight in this city, there are more than 60 members of our unit, many of the people who served with him, the whole chain of command all gathered together. They all know truth of it. John Kerry will never have a group of people like that around him.

SCARBOROUGH: John O‘Neill, I want to ask you a question. It seems to me the reason you wrote this book had more to do with what John Kerry did after he came back from Vietnam, than what he did while he was in Vietnam. Isn‘t it fair to say if John Kerry had not testified before the Foreign Relations Committee in 1971, had not accused U.S. Troops of war crimes, that you probably would not have written this book?

O‘NEILL: The real reason I wrote the book, Joe, I was giving a kidney to my wife, and I began getting millions of calls when I was in the recovery room. And I had to ask myself, as did all the other guys from our unit, would we go through all the hell that was involved in coming forward with the truth about John Kerry? We concluded that for our kids, and our grandkids that this guy would be a totally unfit commander in chief in the war that is going on now.

So we‘re not trying to refight the Vietnam War, but we believe that if you can examine John Kerry‘s actual past, and particularly the way he broke faith with all of us as recently as the book “Tour of Duty” then everyone would conclude, he would be a terrible commander in chief and that no one in good conscience could approach our kids in Iraq and Afghanistan and say, welcome aboard, here‘s the new commander in chief.

SCARBOROUGH: You know, John Hurley, a lot of veterans, a lot of military retirees settled in Northwest Florida, that‘s the district that I used to represent in Congress. A lot of these guys I talk to still are angry about what John Kerry said in 1971. Angry about the war crimes claim. Do you think that may be at the heart of this book? May be at the heart of these commercials? May be at the heart of a lot of the seething resentment that we still see in a lot of Vietnam veterans?

HURLEY: I don‘t, Joe. I think at the heart of this book is a Republican smear campaign that is organized by Republican financiers in Texas by a Republican communications firm in Texas and Mr. O‘Neill. I don‘t think this is about John Kerry as much as it is about presidential politics. We are in a situation now where these guys have remained silent. There‘s been no question about John Kerry‘s medals for 35 years.

But now we find that we are within 80 days of a presidential election, and all of a sudden out of the woodwork, are all these Swift Boat Veterans. I want to tell you about the other veterans who are not here and do not—

Mr. O‘Neill never speaks of. They are the over 200,000 veterans that are on our web site, who are signed up to support John Kerry, who showed up for him in Iowa.

When we were in Iowa, veterans from 16 states paid at their own expense, came to Iowa to support John Kerry. When we were in New Hampshire, veterans from 27 states paid their way to come and support John Kerry. Veterans are turning out across this country as never before to support John Kerry. They believe, as the United States Navy did, and as all of those documents that were written in 1969 state, that John Kerry is a genuine hero that was entitled to those medals that he was awarded.

His crew, Jim Rassmann, the United States Navy backed John Kerry‘s version of events. For these guys to come forward after 35 years is, as John McCain says, dishonest and dishonorable.

SCARBOROUGH: John O‘Neill, you‘ve been fighting this yourself. A lot of veterans may not have, but you‘ve been fighting this issue for 35 years. And the medals seem to be of particular concern to you. Let‘s try to go through these briefly. And I want to get both of you gentlemen‘s take on this, because there‘s obviously a gulf that separates you on these issues. Let‘s start with the Silver Star, John—

O‘NEILL: Joe, can I say first? I haven‘t been fighting for 35 years. I debated John Kerry 33 years ago. I never ran into John Kerry again until February of this year when I was contacted because he had me in his book. That‘s the long and short of it. I would have been perfectly happy never to hear of John Kerry again.

SCARBOROUGH: I stand corrected, Mr. O‘Neill. Now let‘s talk about the Silver Star. You claim John Kerry doesn‘t deserve it. Why?

O‘NEILL: What John Kerry did was John Kerry, according to his Silver Star citation, went into great numerical odds, into an enemy with great numerical superiority, and intense fire and basically rooted them. What he claimed was that he had taken his boat, and turned into a bunker of full Viet Cong, that he had routed them single-handedly. That is reflected in the Silver Star citation that talks about turning into great numerical superiority and so on.

The actual truth is that a single Viet Cong shot a rocket at John Kerry, a kid. John Kerry‘s boat turned towards the ambush site, the kid was shot in the legs. As the kid fled, John Kerry climbed off the boat, chased him, and shot him in the back and finished him off. We have said that there was nothing wrong with that. The kid was a fleeing warrior. But this is not Silver Star material.

And the commanding officers who were involved in that have said they were misled by John Kerry‘s reports. None of the normal documentation for a Silver Star. The affidavits of witnesses or all the other materials, they‘re all missing, none of them occurred. None of the affidavits of witnesses, none of that. Instead, the Silver Star was presented two days later based only on his own report, and that report was a lie.

SCARBOROUGH: John Hurley, let me get you to respond.

HURLEY: That is so absurd as to be just flat bizarre, Joe.

SCARBOROUGH: What part?

HURLEY: The whole thing. I mean it‘s—what he is doing is taking and totally distorting what happened that day. He‘s dishonoring not only John Kerry, but every other single man who served that day. John Kerry was not the only man to receive awards that day. His crew and other members of other crews also received awards that day. John O‘Neill is demeaning everything that they have done.

Commander Elliott who was in their chain of command at the time interviewed Del Sandusky, who was the leading petty officer in John Kerry‘s boat that day. He was satisfied, he wrote up the award recommendation, and he recommended the Silver Star. Admiral Zumwalt, when he came to John Kerry‘s defense in 1996 said that in his opinion, John Kerry deserved a Navy Cross that day, a higher award.

But he felt that he would have to go back to the Pentagon for approval for that award. He felt he needed a morale boost in the Delta, so he had on his own authority the ability to issue a Silver Star, and that‘s what he did. That‘s what every document that is created says. It says John Kerry performed heroically and courageously on the day he won that Silver Star.

For these guys to be coming back 35 years after the fact and now disputing what the United States Navy said, what the witnesses said, what Commander Elliott said is so thin, and so shallow, and so based on Republican smear campaign tactics, that it is dishonest and dishonorable.

SCARBOROUGH: John O‘Neill?

O‘NEILL: Yes, of course, that was just a series of base falsehoods.

First of all, we‘ve never disputed the awards of anybody else. The army guy who actually went ashore and chased the Viet Cong, a man named Doug Reese, one of the rare people who is in favor of Kerry, received a much lower award, the Army Commendation level. Most of the troops got no award at all.

We have said that with respect to the Silver Star that a lower ranking medal might have been reasonable for Kerry. But it was simply a lie to tell the Navy that he was facing numerical superiority and intense fire when what he was really facing was a single Viet Cong in a loincloth, a kid who had already been wounded in the legs. That is not numerical superiority against a gunboat and 30 troops.

HURLEY: You‘re calling Admiral Zumwalt a liar? Is that right, Mr. O‘Neill?

O‘NEILL: I‘m calling John Kerry a liar. Admiral Zumwalt‘s son signed our letter on behalf of his father, calling John Kerry a liar. Admiral Zumwalt on numerous occasions called John Kerry a liar. To me and many others. So please do not cite Admiral Zumwalt. His son signed our letter.

HURLEY: Well, I will, sir. Because he is quoted in the press as recommending John Kerry. Saying that John Kerry deserved a Navy Cross, and now you‘re saying Admiral Zumwalt is wrong.

O‘NEILL: I‘m saying the Admiral Zumwalt was lied to. That Admiral Zumwalt was told that John Kerry went into the middle of a Viet Cong bunker with many Viet Cong. Admiral Zumwalt was never told there was only a single wounded Viet Cong kid. That‘s not numerical superiority. That‘s not Silver Star stuff. That‘s not even a good story.

(CROSSTALK)

HURLEY: You should hang your head in shame for what you‘re saying about the other men who served and were there that day, sir.

O‘NEILL: I have nothing but respect for the other people who served that day. I‘m sorry that many of them were not decorated at all and that...

(CROSSTALK)

HURLEY: They were decorated. They were decorated for the service and the honor and the courage that they showed that day, unlike you‘re showing now.

O‘NEILL: Yes, and one of them is right here today, John, with all the rest. His name is Larry Lee (ph). He was on the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) boat. Thanks, Larry, for being with here. He‘s with the 50 or 60 other comrades of John Kerry that have gathered in this study to meet with the press and to bring the truth to the press about John Kerry‘s lies, both about Vietnam and the post-Vietnam period.

SCARBOROUGH: Gentlemen, stay with us. We‘re going to have much more when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH: A new book by Vietnam vets says John Kerry‘s unfit for command and his purple hearts weren‘t really injuries. They could have been treated with something any more than a band-aid. We‘ll talk about that in a little bit, but first let‘s get the latest headlines from the MSNBC news desk.

(NEWSBREAK)

SCARBOROUGH: Welcome back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. We‘re talking about John Kerry‘s service to this country in Vietnam and right now, we‘re talking about the medals that he received from the United States Navy, the government. John Hurley, let me go to you. We‘re going to talk next about the Bronze Star that John Kerry was awarded and in Mr. O‘Neill‘s book, he claims that the Bronze Star was awarded for the tragic killing of a father and a son. Talk about the Bronze Star and whether you believe John Kerry deserved it.

HURLEY: Well, I certainly know that he deserves it, Joe. I think the best way to address this is to read directly from the Bronze Star award recommendation that was written on March 23, 1969. And it says, shortly after starting their exit from the river, a mine detonated under one of the boats, PCF-3, lifting it two feet above the water and wounding everyone onboard.

Almost simultaneously another mine detonated close aboard PCF-94, that‘s John Kerry‘s boat, knocking first Lieutenant Rassmann into the water and wounding Lieutenant JG Kerry in the right arm. PCF-51 immediately went to the aid of PCF-3, while PCF-94, Kerry‘s boat, provided cover fire.

Shortly after that, Lieutenant JG Kerry was informed that he had a man overboard. He immediately turned his boat around to assist the man in the water who by this time was receiving sniper fire from the river banks. Lieutenant JG Kerry, from his exposed position on the bow of the boat, managed to pull Lieutenant Rassmann aboard despite the painful wound in his right arm.

Meanwhile PCF-94 gunners provided accurate suppressing fire. And the report concludes Lieutenant JG Kerry proved himself to be calm, professional and highly courageous in the face of enemy fire. What‘s interesting about that Joe is that in addition to those words there, this is witnessed by Del Sandusky and it is signed by Commander George Elliott. Commander George Elliott is the same man who now says he was one of these swift boat veterans for Bush who says that John Kerry is not entitled to the Bronze Star. It is specious. Again, if you go back to every single document that was written and in existence in 1969, they support John Kerry‘s version of what happened there.

SCARBOROUGH: And John Hurley, that report that you read, that‘s a United States Navy document?

HURLEY: It certainly is. It‘s an award recommendation dated March 23, 1969, pardon me. It was—the award was recommended by Lieutenant Commander George Elliott and approved by Commander Horn and subsequently approved at a higher level. The Bronze Star medal was approved. Now let me tell you what the answer‘s going to be Joe. Right now Mr. O‘Neill is going to say yes, but it was based on lies. He does this all the time. It‘s not based on lies. It is based on what the United States navy said in 1969.

SCARBOROUGH: All right, John O‘Neill, why did Mr. Elliott say one thing in 1969 and is saying something different in 2004?

O‘NEILL: It isn‘t as simple as that, Joe. The problem that they‘ve got is all the documents show that John Kerry lied.

SCARBOROUGH: What documents, what documents showed that he lied?

O‘NEILL: Are you asking me, Joe?

SCARBOROUGH: Yes, I am.

O‘NEILL: We can start off with John Kerry‘s own book, “Tour of Duty.” John Kerry reported to the Navy that he had a hip wound and an arm wound and used that to get his third purple heart. He said that they were from a water mine. But if you check pages 313 and 317 of his book, “Tour,” quoting from his journal, he wounded himself with a grenade that morning. It had nothing to do with a water mine. A second report --

SCARBOROUGH: so wait, I‘m sorry. What book states—where does John Kerry admit that he wounded himself with a hand grenade?

O‘NEILL: In the book “Tour of Duty” on page 313.

SCARBOROUGH: Douglas Brinkley‘s book?

O‘NEILL: Yes, Douglas Brinkley‘s book under a contract with John Kerry authorized and reviewed by John Kerry quoting John Kerry. Now, that‘s John Kerry‘s wound. The second wound he claims to have had is an arm wound. You remember, the bleeding, all that? The actual records show that he had a minor bruise. He entitled it contusion, minor. There was no bleeding arm. The treatment of it was a cold cloth put on it. And yet he used this and this self-inflicted wound to leave Vietnam 4 ½ months early.

With respect to what actually happened, you recall the citation, you just heard said in effect all boats fled the scene, you can read this on John Kerry‘s Web site. There was a mine that went off under PCF-3. All boats fled the scene and then John Kerry came back. Sitting right here in Washington are Dick Pees, the commanding officer of PCF-3 which was mined, Larry Thurlow, the commanding officer of second boat and Jack Chenoweth, the commanding officer of a third boat, Van O‘Dell, the gunner. PCF-3 didn‘t go anywhere. PCF-3 was blown into the air. What happened is all our boats closed on PCF-3 to save it and save the sailors that were in the water except one boat. That was John Kerry‘s boat. He fled. He fled until it was clear there was no return fire and then he came back.

SCARBOROUGH: OK. John, I‘ve got to ask you this, John O‘Neill, because during the Boston convention, I gave John Kerry credit. The story‘s a remarkable story. A man goes overboard, he turns his boat back around. He turns it into the shore, goes towards enemy fire, saves a guy that he says is one of his band of brothers, brings him up, gets the award for it. Rasmussen is there, hugs him, thanks him, says he owes his life to him. Have I been duped? Has Rasmussen been duped or is Rasmussen a liar?

O‘NEILL: You‘ve been totally duped, Joe. It‘s a big lie around a small truth. The truth is that Kerry did come back and Kerry did rescue Rasmussen, put him on his boat, shortly before the Chenoweth boat, within 10 yards of the Chenoweth boat. There was no fire Joe. There wasn‘t—these boats were sitting in place. Kerry reported to the Navy that there was 3.2 miles of fire from both banks. Joe, you can talk to all these people tomorrow morning if you want to. They‘re here in town. After the initial mine, there was absolutely no fire. There‘s not a bullet hole in any boat. Nobody was wounded except the people on PCF-3. It was a total fraud on the American people. He did come back. He did come back when there was no fire and he did pick up Rasmussen shortly before the other boats picked up Rasmussen. They had been engaged in picking up sailors in the water from PCF-3. It couldn‘t go anywhere, Joe. It didn‘t have any screws. It didn‘t have any crew. They sat there to save him.

SCARBOROUGH: All right. John Hurley, I‘ll have you respond. Go ahead.

HURLEY: Joe, it‘s hard to figure out how to respond. That‘s so ludicrous, that so defies what is said in these Navy documents. The Navy documents say a mine detonated under PCF-3. It says that another mine detonated blowing Rasmussen in the water and injuring John Kerry. That‘s fact. That‘s not fiction. What Mr. O‘Neill is engaging in is fiction. He‘s trying to recall 35 years after the fact what happened and he‘s doing a terrible job. He says that there‘s no damage to the boat. Let me read for you the after action report that is the damage assessment of PCF-94, John Kerry‘s boat, this is the next day back at An Thoi and it says, two starboard and one port main cabinet windows blown out, VRC 46 radio and all remote unit pilot house inoperable, AC wiring shorted out, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) generator inoperable, steerage control after helm, inoperable. And it goes on like that. The boat was unserviceable. And let me—

O‘NEILL: Can I respond, Joe, to that point?

HURLEY: Let me add one other thing. That is it was John Kerry‘s boat that towed the PCF-3 back to port. This is just revisionist history Joe. It makes no sense. It‘s dishonorable and dishonest. The United States Navy documents which Mr. O‘Neill ought to accept but disagree with his political agenda because it does not agree with his Republican smear campaign. He ought to accept what the United States Navy said, what every crewmate that served on those boats with John Kerry had said and he ought to accept it with honor and stop this sham.

SCARBOROUGH: John O‘Neill?

O‘NEILL: Joe, all you have to do is read “Tour of Duty,” John Kerry‘s book on page 304 and you‘ll learn that those three windows were blown out on the 12th of March, not the 13th. It‘s right there in John Kerry‘s only journal. What they do is try to take damage on the 12th and convey it to the 13th. With respect to the theory wait, we‘re trying to attack Navy doctrine, what John Kerry did was provide a false report to the Navy.

When Chenoweth and Thurlow who saved the boat or Dick Pees, when they saw the ad, they thought it was something that they weren‘t involved in. They thought it had to be some other incident. They were shocked to learn that John Kerry had written the report he did and obtained the fraudulent Bronze Star he obtained. He had no arm wound. It wasn‘t bleeding. He had only a minor bruise. The records show it. The wound, supposed wound in his hip, his own book admits he gave to himself. All you have to do is read page 313 and page 317 of “Tour.”

This is all summarized in our book, “Unfit for Command,” but this isn‘t just he said, she said. The problem John Kerry has, as with Christmas in Cambodia, is that when you lie, sometimes you tell the truth by mistake. It‘s not just all the guys, all of whom will talk to you who were there, it‘s actually the documents. The problem is he‘s caught. It‘s up. The jig is up.

SCARBOROUGH: All right. John O‘Neill, John Hurley, thank you so much for being with us tonight. We greatly appreciate it. If you want to read more of John O‘Neill‘s book, “Unfit for Command,” you‘ll find an excerpt at joe.msnbc.com. Take a look. Also, if you want to get the other side of the story, you certainly can go to John Kerry‘s Web site. They certainly are going to be talking about this in the coming weeks. We appreciate both of these gentlemen coming on. Tell you what, they‘ve given us all a lot to think about.

[integritycounts]

the problem with just links is ---- Links expire in days.. months ..years, you can loose the entire content ....

removed my duplicate post

[Me#1You#10]

Admin note:

To the forum:

This type of thread is a fine idea and a welcome addition. However, as it's being implemented here, it's making it difficult for an interested reader to be selective in what they wish to view. The replication of entire transcripts creates nearly an endless scroll of material that would turn away even the most intrepid would-be viewer.

In the future, please do not post the entire content in the forum. While it might be appropriate to present a short excerpt as an "appetizer", please link instead of reproducing.

For those who have already contributed to this thread, consider editing your posts to effect the above changes.

I think you'll find that it will present a much more user friendly format than the one now being utilized.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Admin

[Me#1You#10]

[You GottaBeKidding]

I have never run a board like this, but is there a way that you can save each transcript in a separate file stored on this site (perhaps with a reference at the top to the original source and URL), with a link in the message to the file on the site.

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

Unfortunately, we don't have access to the site, or I could do that in about an hour.

We only have access to the board, itself.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[You GottaBeKidding]

Is there any chance that the mods can create the docs from info posted here then e-mail them to someone who does have access to the site? There has to be a way to do this.

[kate]

will wait on outcome before deleting.....

in the meantime, to make the thread easier for users --I put a list in my post#1, of which transcripts are here. That should make it a bit easier on readers, to scroll around to a particluar show/person.
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one of..... We The People

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

[kate]

JOHN ONEILL
Wednesday, August 18, 2004
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129343,00.html
This is a partial transcript of "Special Report With Brit Hume," Aug. 17, 2004, that has been edited for clarity.


BRIT HUME, HOST: The man at the center of the allegation that John Kerry has misrepresented his war record is an old adversary and fellow Vietnam veteran who once debated Kerry on television more than 30 years ago. He is John O'Neill (search), co-author of the book "Unfit for Command," which reports the sharply critical views of dozens of the men who served with Kerry in Vietnam and who strongly dispute Kerry's version of a number of the events in there. He joins me now.
Welcome to you, sir.

JOHN O'NEILL, AUTHOR, "UNFIT FOR COMMAND": Thank you, very much, Brit.

HUME: Now, do I take it that your role in this book was principally editor and author-writer, rather than witness?

O'NEILL: Yes. There's a chapter relating to the debate but the bulk of the book contains the recollection of more than 60 people who served directly with John Kerry (search). About 17 of the officers who were with him, all of his commanding officers — I'm a person who is putting down their recollection for most of the book.

HUME: There have been a lot of question about your motivation. You debated him back on the old "Dick Cavett Show" back in the early '70s. That seemed to be about the criticisms Kerry made of what was going on in Vietnam after he had come home. May I take it that you still feel strongly about that and that is a factor in your participation in this project now?

O'NEILL: It is, Brit. My children didn't even know that I had debated Kerry, to tell you the truth. It was more than 30 years ago. But yes, I feel John Kerry lied when he accused U.S. troops generally of war crimes and specifically our unit. And the people in our unit, all of them feel very strongly about that.

HUME: Well, that obviously takes up a good part of the book. But the book is also given over to a number of incidents, including those for which Kerry was decorated. Where the veterans that are on your side on this, critical of Kerry, are disputing the official record. And I want to ask you about that because for example, one of the fitness reports, George Elliott (search) mentioned earlier by Major Garret, this was December 14, 1968 to March of 1969.

Quote, "Kerry was unsurpassed. He emerged as the acknowledged leader in his peer group." Later on he said, quote, "Kerry rapidly assessed the situation and ordered his units to turn directly into the ambush. This decision was resulted in routing the attackers with several enemy KIA." That means of course killed this action.
Now, that's the official Navy record. And Kerry, you know, points with some pride, I think and so do his supports to that. This is what you and the other veterans are up against. This is what the official record says. Why would we not want to believe that official record?

O'NEILL: I think the problem, Brit, is when you look at the record, the actual record, many of them are the very strongest support that we have. The fitness reports you've read basically place Kerry in the middle of the pack at that particular division as Commander Elliot has explained. But Commander Elliot was not with Kerry on his operations. He relied on the reports that Kerry actually submitted.

And what we have done is go and take the actually reports that Kerry submitted and compared those to Kerry's own accounts in books like "Tour of Duty." And we find that he...

HUME: That's the Douglas Brinkley...

O'NEILL: Absolutely.

HUME: The historian Douglas Brinkley's book about Kerry and his Vietnam service, published to considerable acclaim some months ago.

O'NEILL: Exactly. For example, there's the sanpan incident, outlined in Kerry's book "Tour of Duty," in which it's undisputable it was a tragedy. There was a husband and a wife and a child and a baby, on a sanpan. The husband was killed. The child was killed. We don't criticize that, although it could be criticized. But what we did is get the actual report out of the Navy Archives and all of a sudden, there is...

HUME: Now, which actual report is this? This is the after action report that was filed by whom?

O'NEILL: By John Kerry on January 20, 1969, but which he has omitted from his Web site. That report, which went to Commander Elliott, shows no longer the child being killed, the child that John Kerry said in "Tour of Duty," would be seared in his mind forever. All of a sudden, it shows an entire squad, five Viet Cong on the boat that were never there in the real world being killed. It shows the mother and child as Viet Cong captured in action.

It went up the chain of command and John Kerry received back congratulations. Just like the ones you are reading from commanders that had no idea that he had lied to them.

HUME: So what you're saying is that when Elliot said these things, he was based on Kerry's say so. And he has changed his mind now because he no longer believes these things to be true.

O'NEILL: What Commander Elliott said was like Churchill; Kerry was a guy who knew history would treat him kindly because he wrote it.

HUME: I understand. All right. Now, let's just to talk about you a little further here. There are allegations flying — I saw some of them today on web sites and so on — that you are a Republican activist. And partisan, who has been a registered Republican for the past 20 years or so and has given something on the order of $14,000 to Republican candidates. Your response.

O'NEILL: Well, first of all. Of course, there are 254 guys in our operation, 60 of them won the Purple Heart. I'm only one of many people, but as to me, that is not true either. The actual records, which I actually drawn, show that I have given more money to Democratic candidates than to Republican candidates.

But I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. I have always voted for the person. I have given money for example to Duane Sand who went to the Naval Academy. On the other hand, I have given money to Bill White, who is a Democratic candidate for mayor of Houston. And I've done that because I thought they would be good people.

HUME: Well, what about the 14 grand? Were those contributions you actually did make to Republicans?

O'NEILL: Actually, about half of them were mine and I've given in excess of $25,000 to Democrats over the same 15-year period. About three times as much.

HUME: What about the rest of the other $7,000?

O'NEILL: Those are actually funds, as nearly as I can tell, that were given my law partner who has almost the same name, Edward J. O'Neill. I simply didn't give them. I would have been happy to give them. I just didn't.

HUME: Mr. O'Neill, it's nice to have you. Thank you for coming. Hope we can see you again.

O'NEILL: Thank you very much. Thank you, Brit.
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one of..... We The People

[sevry]

Excerpted, transcribed:

Steve Gardner - Savage Nation, 6 AUG

Ted Peck - David Gold, 15 AUG