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SwiftVets.com
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Hesiod
Former Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 49
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 Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 5:37 pm Post subject: Swift Boat Veterans Refuse to Open Their Own Records. |
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After repeated requests, members of Swift Boat Veterans for (ahem) "Truth" have consistently refused to open up their own military records for public scrutiny. The very thing they ask of John Kerry.
They made their records an issue when they accused Kerry of LYING about their actions in Vietnam. Did he? OK. Prove it.
Open up your service records.
Do't hide behind FOIA or privacy laws.
If you are not willing to post your records online, like Senator Kerry has done, then you will prove that you are nothing but partisan hacks working for the Buhs campaign.
Put up or shut up.
One veteran in particular, Roy Hoffmann, has been reported in some media accounts as being particularly bloodshirsty. One critic even labelled him as "psychotic" even before John Kerry ran for President.
Is he right? Who knows. But Hoffmann claims Kerry lied about him.
Sounds like Hoffmann's records should be opened up for everyone to see whether or not he's telling the truth. |
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JC_Christian
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 8:22 pm Post subject: Swift Boat veteran's records |
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I don't think the swift boaters against kerry people should open up their records. Some of them might not even be swift boaters and that would adversly affect the good work their doing. If the last four years have taught me anything, it's that style is more important than substance. I think the swift boaters should continue to reflect that. It works.
Four more years.
_________________
Heterosexually yours,
Gen. JC Christian, patriot
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com |
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Jonathan
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Swift Boat veteran's records |
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| JC_Christian wrote: | I don't think the swift boaters against kerry people should open up their records. Some of them might not even be swift boaters and that would adversly affect the good work their doing. If the last four years have taught me anything, it's that style is more important than substance. I think the swift boaters should continue to reflect that. It works.
Four more years. |
If they refuse to release their own records, it calls into question their truthfulness, pure and simple. Several of their statements have already proven misleading.
I do agree with you, though, that revealing their actual military records (e.g. whether most of them actually served with Kerry) would likely affect their "good work" adversely. The truth has never been the friend of anonymous smear groups.
The bottom line appears to be that they're very willing to attack someone else on the grounds that his war record doesn't add up, but don't have the courage to do what Kerry's already done.
A pity. I'm sure many of them exhibited courage under fire. I wonder what happened to that bravery. |
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Louielouie
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Swift Boat veteran's records |
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| Quote: | | If they refuse to release their own records, it calls into question their truthfulness, pure and simple. Several of their statements have already proven misleading. |
You do realize what your saying here don't you? No? Let me explain. Your saying that if swiftvets don't release their records it calls into question THEIR truthfulness... pure and simple. Meanwhile - none of THESE swiftvets are running for president. This presidential candidate isn't releasing his record... what does that say about him? Now ask yourself - do you want a man like that in office? You already claimed that by not realeasing their own records they can't be trusted....
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Jonathan
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Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: Swift Boat veteran's records |
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| Louielouie wrote: | | Quote: | | If they refuse to release their own records, it calls into question their truthfulness, pure and simple. Several of their statements have already proven misleading. |
You do realize what your saying here don't you? No? Let me explain. Your saying that if swiftvets don't release their records it calls into question THEIR truthfulness... pure and simple. Meanwhile - none of THESE swiftvets are running for president. This presidential candidate isn't releasing his record... what does that say about him? Now ask yourself - do you want a man like that in office? You already claimed that by not realeasing their own records they can't be trusted....
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[/quote]
Kerry has released at least as many records as Bush--enough to verify anything he's ever said about his service. Where have you been?
Go to Kerry's website -- they're available for anyone to see. |
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shoebowl
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 2
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 9:43 pm Post subject: Records |
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These other gentlemen aren't running for the highest office in the world. They are making certain that an incompetent competitor doesn't get the bid by default. I've served in the military as have many brothers, my father and my daughter, their records are none of your concern. The only records anybody should care about are the records of one John F. Kerry.
That he refuses to provide ALL his records should be alarming enough. His answers to the questions of his military service should be incorporated into a remake of "Glengarry Glen Ross" Al Pacino would be perfect to lie as he does.
He is so obviously a liar, manipulator and all-around cheat that it begs the question of your intellect if you are prone to accept such half-truths as facts. Good lord, I have my reservations about the state of the union as there are so many well-meaning people who haven't the wisdom to see through bald-faced lies.
He is an opportunist, cashing in on the deaths of those many who we'll never see again. If you can contain your concience and look past that, good for you, but all the uncertainty aside, I know my brother came back to bigoted hatred and he'll never be the same. Shame on all of you pigs who let them down. |
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Hesiod
Former Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Records |
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| shoebowl wrote: | These other gentlemen aren't running for the highest office in the world. They are making certain that an incompetent competitor doesn't get the bid by default. I've served in the military as have many brothers, my father and my daughter, their records are none of your concern. The only records anybody should care about are the records of one John F. Kerry.
That he refuses to provide ALL his records should be alarming enough. His answers to the questions of his military service should be incorporated into a remake of "Glengarry Glen Ross" Al Pacino would be perfect to lie as he does.
He is so obviously a liar, manipulator and all-around cheat that it begs the question of your intellect if you are prone to accept such half-truths as facts. Good lord, I have my reservations about the state of the union as there are so many well-meaning people who haven't the wisdom to see through bald-faced lies.
He is an opportunist, cashing in on the deaths of those many who we'll never see again. If you can contain your concience and look past that, good for you, but all the uncertainty aside, I know my brother came back to bigoted hatred and he'll never be the same. Shame on all of you pigs who let them down. |
They aren't running for the highest office in the land, to be sure. But they are attacking someone who is. And they are basing THEIR attack on their own "credibility" as Swift Boat veterans. Moreover, they pronounced Kerry "unfit" for the office of President by virtue, among other things, of his supposed "lies" about Vietnam veterans.
Therefore, THEIR records are now at issue. If they say Kerry is lying about them, then prove it. Open up your files, or forever hold your peace.
Especially since they have the hypocritical gall to ask Kerry to open up his files (which he has done).
I'm not saying Kerry shouldn't have opened up his files. I'm saying that people who make claims like these folks have, ought to back it up with something. Especially since almost none of them said diddly squat about Kerry until he was beating Bush in the head to head polling and Kerry unveiled his big advertising campaign. (Suddenly they all got religion!) If they were so concerned, why didn't they say something during the primary when it could have elevated someone else to the Democratic nomination?
Sounds like a partisan sandbagging job to me. Not the work of honorable gentlemen. |
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JC_Christian
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Sure, Kerry's released at least as much of his military records as Our Leader has, but there is nothing in those record about his "little soldier". My guess is that he's embarrassed by it because it does not meet the standard specs. I haven't see Our Leader's, but I'd guess that His little guardsman is absolutely huge and at least as effective as His foreign policy.
I now think the swiftboat vets should lay it all out on the table. It might serve to embarrass the Kerry folks. I know that at well over three inches, my little soldier is nothing to be laughed at despite the exagerated claims by feminists about what is considered to be "normal." Can anyone beat that?
_________________
Heterosexually yours,
Gen. JC Christian, patriot
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com |
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stumpy
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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As a vet, I know the importance of performance reports. As far as I know, Kerry has released all of his. In contrast, Fearful Leader has released only those from his early years of service and none from his last, and quite questionable, 18 months of service.
For the sake of fairness, I think this organization would demonstrate its honesty and impartiality by demanding the release of those records as well. |
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JC_Christian
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 10:46 pm Post subject: Our Leader should set the standard |
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I agree with the above. Our Leader should release all of his records including any that have to do with discipline or the reason for hie grounding. That'll show the Kerryites. They'll see that while Kerry was lying around in a hospital doing nothing but recovering from wounds inflicted by the Viet Cong, Our Leader was working undercover seaching for communist infiltrators in bars and brothels across the South.
_________________
Heterosexually yours,
Gen. JC Christian, patriot
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com |
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rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 11:28 pm Post subject: Re: Swift Boat veteran's records |
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| Quote: | | If they refuse to release their own records, it calls into question their truthfulness. |
Obviously you overllooked the poignant scene of Joe Ponder struggling
to get to the podium at the news conference on his crutches. He lost a leg
while on a mission in the delta rivers opposite Kerry
Release his records? Question his truthfulness? Both were there for all to see.
You sir, are as misguided as Wade Sanders, Kerry designated hit man for
activities associated with Swift Boat sailors: "If we cannot silence them or
respond to their opinions, use whatever outrageous claims that can be
made to discredit them" seems to be the strategy of the Kerry campaign
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have absolutely NO ties to the Republican
campaign ... as stated repeatedly ... and NO ONE in the Bush campaign
has EVER questioned Kerry's service while IN Vietnam.
But his activities AFTER he returned, having completed only one-third
of his obligation, IS in question: Meeting with representaives of the North
Vietnamese enemy, and then starting a media blitz, the core of which was
that ALL U.S. soldiers in Vietnam were "war ciminals" using allegations
which have NEVER been substantiated. He even had the poor judgement
to suggest to Congress that they adopt, point by point, the Communist
Vietnamese terms for surrender.
Stick THAT in your call for records and truthfulness
.
Last edited by rbshirley on Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:28 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 11:38 pm Post subject: Re: Swift Boat veteran's records |
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| rbshirley wrote: | ["Louielouie"] | Quote: | If they refuse to release their own records,
it calls into question their truthfulness. |
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Just to clear things up, "Jonathan" is the one that posted the following:
| Quote: | | If they refuse to release their own records, it calls into question their truthfulness, pure and simple. Several of their statements have already proven misleading. |
LouieLouie actually posted the following in response to Jonathan.
| Quote: | | You do realize what your saying here don't you? No? Let me explain. Your saying that if swiftvets don't release their records it calls into question THEIR truthfulness... pure and simple. Meanwhile - none of THESE swiftvets are running for president. This presidential candidate isn't releasing his record... what does that say about him? Now ask yourself - do you want a man like that in office? You already claimed that by not realeasing their own records they can't be trusted.... |
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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stumpy
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| rbshirely, missing limbs not longer mean a thing after what was done in '02 to triple amputee Max Cleland. The GOPers have taken decency in discourse to a record low and must now live the result. |
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Hesiod
Former Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 11:43 pm Post subject: Re: Swift Boat veteran's records |
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| rbshirley wrote: | ["Louielouie"] | Quote: | If they refuse to release their own records,
it calls into question their truthfulness. |
Obviously Louielouie overllooked the poignant scene of Joe Ponder struggling
to get to the podium at the news conference on his crutches. He lost a leg
while on a mission in the delta rivers opposite Kerry
Release his records? Question his truthfulness? Both were there for all to see.
You sir, are as despicable as Wade Sanders, Kerry designated hit man for
activities associated with Swift Boat sailors: If we cannot silence them or
respond to their opinions, use whatever outrageous claims that can be made
to discredit them ... seems to be the strategy of the Kerry campaign
Theresa Heinz escalated this campaign mud slinging Friday by calling her
husband's opponents "unpatriotic" for raising questions about Kerry's
Vietnam service. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have absolutely NO ties to
the Republican campaign ... as stated repeatedly ... and NO ONE in the
Bush campaign has EVER questioned Kerry's service while IN Vietnam.
But his activities AFTER he returned, having completed only one-third of his
obligation, IS in question: Meeting with representaives of the North Vietnamese
enemy, and then starting a media blitz, the core of which was that ALL US soldiers
in Vietnam were "war ciminals" ... using allegations which have NEVER been
substantiated. He even had the poor judgement to suggest to Congress that
they adopt, point by point, the North Vietnamese terms for surrender.
Stick THAT in your call for records and truthfulness Louielouie
. |
Well...maybe Ponder lost his legs in a drunken hand grenade accident. You know, like what Ann Coulter said about staunch Kerry supporter, Max Cleland?
Why should anyone take his word for it?
You see my point.
And Teresa Heinz didn't question the patriotism of EVERYONE who criticized her husband. Just quadruple deferrment, Dick "I had other priorities" Cheney.
By the way, Kerry never said ALL the soldiers serving in Vietnam were "war criminals."
And the Winter Soldiers testimony was heavily vetted. At the time, Kerry had no reason to doubt any of it. Especially after My Lai.
In fact, it would have been unpatriotic for him NOT to repeat what he heard there, if he believed it to be true.
Just like it would be unpatriotic not to report on Iraqi prisoner abuses today.
As for North Vietnam's terms for withdrawl, isn't that pretty much how we got out of Vietnam anyway? It sure looks a lot like the Henry Kissinger treaty to me. Only difference is, how many thousand of our young men died while Nixon fiddled around with unnecessary bombing campaigns to obtain "peace with honor," whatever the hell that meant.
I agree that Kerry used poor judgment in talkng to both sides of the negotiating table. But so what? He didn't have any authority to make any deals, and he didn't have any leverage back home.
All he could say was "this is what the North wants." |
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administrator
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:21 am Post subject: Re: Swift Boat veteran's records |
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| rbshirley wrote: | ["Louielouie"] | Quote: | If they refuse to release their own records,
it calls into question their truthfulness. |
Obviously Louielouie overllooked the poignant scene of Joe Ponder struggling
to get to the podium at the news conference on his crutches. He lost a leg
while on a mission in the delta rivers opposite Kerry
Release his records? Question his truthfulness? Both were there for all to see.
You sir, are as despicable as Wade Sanders, Kerry designated hit man for
activities associated with Swift Boat sailors: If we cannot silence them or
respond to their opinions, use whatever outrageous claims that can be made
to discredit them ... seems to be the strategy of the Kerry campaign
Theresa Heinz escalated this campaign mud slinging Friday by calling her
husband's opponents "unpatriotic" for raising questions about Kerry's
Vietnam service. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have absolutely NO ties to
the Republican campaign ... as stated repeatedly ... and NO ONE in the
Bush campaign has EVER questioned Kerry's service while IN Vietnam.
But his activities AFTER he returned, having completed only one-third of his
obligation, IS in question: Meeting with representaives of the North Vietnamese
enemy, and then starting a media blitz, the core of which was that ALL US soldiers
in Vietnam were "war ciminals" ... using allegations which have NEVER been
substantiated. He even had the poor judgement to suggest to Congress that
they adopt, point by point, the North Vietnamese terms for surrender.
Stick THAT in your call for records and truthfulness Louielouie
. |
Geez.... read the whole thread before you attack me please.  |
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