SwiftVets.com

[UT2Woody]

I was in Olongapo 14 times from the 80s to the early 90s. I never saw anything like that maybe it was different in the early 70s but I doubt it. I did hear about terrorists leaving heads in the fountain at victory circle but I don't know if that was true or not. Even if it was that was only a one time thing. I am pretty certain that nobody in the military when I was on active duty would have left a starving baby in the street much less babies I know I couldn't. Sounds like Kerry's imagination has run wild again.
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Construimus Batuimus

[UT2Woody]

I am also married to a Filipina and we have 2 kids and one on the way. We were in PI May-June of this year. John Kerry is a filthy liar.
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Construimus Batuimus

[Paul]

“In front of God and everyone.”

For it’s worth, I think that I do understand why even guys who themselves exaggerate or were generally surprised by Subic now object to distortions by such as John Kerry and others, and suspect some may even overcompensate a bit in reaction to it where Subic and Olongapo are concerned.

Something else that I suspect that’s a factor today is how much has changed in our own nation and around the world and the problem of relative differences over time. Even Juarez and Tijuana are different from the '60s and '70s due to numerous changes, including the influx of the drug trade into Mexico and increased corruption due to it. I don't even drive into Mexico any longer.

Some people try to call the windows in the red light district of Amsterdam, “cultural.” Rubbish. It’s open prostitution and live pornography and nothing more. “Porn Stars”??? They’re prostitutes with a movie contract. Pot houses in The Netherlands as "advanced" and "progressive?" Bull. They’ve been corrupting a lot of the youth of western Europe, something that increasingly even many of the nihilistic Europeans have been coming to recognize.

Back in the ‘60s and ‘70s, then let’s face it, there was a lot seen in the clubs in Olongapo, and other ports in the world as well, that were not acts that one would tend to see here in the United States, except maybe in some joints in Times Square in NYC, parts of San Francisco and a few other places in major US Cites, and even there only to a very limited degree. In the mid ‘70s when in Florida, then a pal from NY noted how surprised he was that Total Nudity was allowed in the strip joints around Orlando because it wasn’t in NYC. Even Pasties and / or g strings were still mostly required there. Some of the acts that were seen in clubs in Olongapo was still purely “sub-culture” and back alley, mostly in large cities, here in the US, just as it was years later in such as the Culture Show (I mistyped Club above) in Yokosuka.

Boogy Street in Singapore used to be seen as wild and exotic, hence the draw of all of the European tourists even.

Today, then forget it. One can find clubs with some of this kind of garbage spreading in one place to another across our own nation, especially in the past 20 to 30 years.

Whether the City of Olongapo should have enacted local statutes against much of it back in the ‘60s and ‘70 and shut down some of those places, especially such as those like Jolo’s, then I won’t argue isn’t reasonably argued. Personally, I won’t defend the indefensible and really can’t defend something that Olongapo probably did just fine without before they began to open.

Olongapo is different today then what it used to be in the ‘60s or ‘70s or ‘80s, but from all that I see, it was different then from the ‘40s and ‘50s, even though the naval station was in place and prominent then too. Prior to the ‘40s is a tough comparison since Cavite was the main US naval station. There’s no doubt in my mind that allowing some of that rot had a substantially bad impact on the town and on the area as a result.

However, Olongapo was not without standards and law and order. One reason that the really debauched stuff was found in the places outside the city limits of Olongapo, and beyond its jurisdiction, about 15 miles or more away in Subic City.

But in Olongapo itself, there was no debauchery or lewdness that was tolerated out on the streets in public, by citizens of the city or military personnel.

Not to be an apologist for the navy, but in fairness, the navy, at least in this regard, assisted the city of Olongapo in limiting any such acts on the part of any of our people in the armed forces on liberty in Olongapo: via the Armed Forces Police (APs) [2-year shore duty and 6-month TAD billets as I recall] and their being supplemented by the guys on duty assigned to the uniquely navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard auxiliary duty of Shore Patrol who were placed under them.

Did some sailors and Marines get out of hand sometimes? Yes. Was most of it able to be dealt with on the spot, even without hauling a guy in and pressing charges? Yes. Did some spend the night in the brig because they violated a law or statute? Yes. Did some go to Captain’s Mast and lose stripes and money and end up on restriction or three days bread and water because of their actions? Yes. Did some go to jail or federal prison for other acts? I would think so. Was the place rowdy? Yes. Did the overwhelming majority restrict even their worst behavior to only being rowdy and not breaking any laws? Yes.

Yes, I’m aware of the category of “never got caught.” I was awarded the Undetected Crimes (aka Good Conduct Medal) twice myself. It’s irrelevant.

After years of having watched these types like Senator Kerry and listened to them, then personally, I don’t believe that it’s hard to recognize how even the image of Shore Patrol being marched down the main drag in ranks could be misused and exaggerated by some of them . . . .

For those of us who were in the service, then if one gives it a few moments thought back to the basic infantry training that we all received in boot camp, then personally I don’t believe that it’s difficult to recognize that the infantry formations and maneuvers developed over the centuries really were very efficient means of moving about large and small bodies of men, ranging in size from squads to platoons to divisons to corps. Shore Patrol was pretty basic and marching us from point A at the naval station to point B at the mustering point for that particular beat in Olongapo was an efficient means of getting large numbers of men to where they needed to be in the late afternoon and then back after midnight, sweeping up any service personnel who were violating the curfew established by the City of Olongapo (and maintained even when lifted elsewhere in the nation) on the way, nothing more, nothing less.

It’s not in the least as if we were putting on any shows of any kind. No one ever called anything like Counter March as an order! At that point, we’d have no doubt been surprised and probably would have screwed it up, to be honest. . .

The large numbers of shore patrol teams walking on the streets and the APs patrolling in jeeps along with the city police throughout the evening helped to keep everything mostly orderly and the streets safe places to be, even for such as the hustling kids and those Mormon missionaries mentioned (and who did look a bit dazed and disoriented that evening. . . ).

There’s also the problem of speaking about Hookers. Frankly, I’d say that probably the majority of prostitutes in the Olongapo area, even those quick witted and clever, and however rowdy some were in some places were gals who tended not to be overly fouled mouthed, or for some at all fouled mouthed, and who knew how to conduct themselves with some degree of decorum, even if I’ll sure stop well short of using “classy.”

To be blunt, I’d say now that most Filipino prostitutes in the area displayed a higher degree of dignity than a great many average American women in our own nation today, many that I know and encounter who are fouled mouthed and slutty in their behavior. “Nice” people who often do very un-nice things. Crude, crass, and not at all the sophisticated and advanced people that some of them wrongly envision themselves as being. . . Whatever their education levels or income in many instances, or lack thereof.

And I’ll say it again, and not only college and high school kids at some of their gatherings, but a lot of what I’ve seen at such as Marde Gras, and the rest of the year in places like the French Quarter in New Orleans, or some parts of Houston, even in smaller cities, . . . . would NEVER have been seen on the streets of Olongapo back in the old days. . . And that’s a fact.

It’s also pathetic that many so-called average American women now behave worse in public at some times, then was true of most Filipina prostitutes in Subic years ago. But it’s true.

Hey, one of my first ports other than Yokosuka was Keelung, Republic of China. One tall, leggy, slim Chinese gal in a bar there wasn’t shy in the least. She came right over to our table, sat down, and gave a flash demonstrating her very substantial endowment of very large breasts. Hey, I know what she was “advertising” and why. And I also suspect that even she wouldn’t have done it out on the street (I won’t swear that she wouldn’t have either. . . ).

What I can’t figure out is what in the world are the college girls, and adult women of a host of normal routine professions and whatever other “ordinary” gals doing lifting their shirts on the streets of New Orleans and elsewhere for nothing more substantial than for some characters on a float to throw plastic beads and other such wampum to them or elsewhere for whatever reasons. . . ? And what was done under tables inside seedy joints in Subic City is now done on the streets of New Orleans and elsewhere at some times, including the instances of junior high school girls on school buses that have made the news.

This is no sea story, I watched a college age gal in an SUV full of what looked like college kids raise her shirt and flash her breasts in response to a car that they had cut off honking them for it. Why????? In her particular case, God only knows. . .

It’s a different population of Americans and we’re essentially a different nation because of it. Even for the majority who don’t do these things, then the majority is mostly tolerant of them. Dive joints with variations of what was seen in some of those clubs in Olongapo, are increasingly not uncommon at all here in the United States, even in small cities and towns and far worse. It sure isn’t on the internet or even cable. We’re a long way from the days of pasties in strip joints. . . . One can ridicule the legalistic and disingenuous calling of the hookers “hostesses” in Olongapo all one wants. But calling the whore houses “stress relief clubs” as is common in the US now is no different and the term doesn’t change the fact of what they are: whore houses.

Even relatively speaking, there’s not a comparison any longer. One the whole, I suspect that while far rowdier and seedy and probably a bit rougher, it was probably far cleaner in Olongapo than a lot of areas now in parts of no few US cities and towns, even some small ones. And what’s our excuse? To call these novelties and changes of the past few decades in which debauchery and perversion are now claimed as “freedom of expression”, “freedom of privacy” or a sign of American “strength” and “democracy” then, please, what nonsense.

But with a Vice President with an openly lesbian daughter, the daughters of a sitting President of the United States who it’s announced will attend a “homosexual marriage ceremony”, former President Clinton, Monica Lewinsky and his “it depends on how you define ‘is’”, and a good bit else that all of these people openly support or avoid even questioning, never mind criticizing, then why would anyone be surprised at what our nation is becoming?

What in the world is all of this fuss about Olongapo thirty to forty years ago???

Further, maybe our old memories of events wouldn’t be so difficult for some others to believe anymore. Some of the high school kids might be able to give us “pointers” and see us only as a bunch of wusses (sp?). We are a different nation.
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Paul

[Paul]

". . .would have left a starving baby in the street much less babies. . "

In Subic? Geez. A claim like this would be totally outrageous and absurd.

Does Kerry claim this also about Subic?
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Paul

[UT2Woody]

When I was a BT on active duty I was stationed in Yokosuka on the Knox. So I have been a lot of places over there more than once but PI stole my heart. Yes I did things there that I am ashamed of now but I was a teenager at the time and settled down a lot the last few times I visited with the Navy on the Jouett. I'm not saying it was Pleasantville over there but it wasn't Rwanda either. Once you got away from the bars you discovered the real PI and it is cool. The people are old fashioned even today. They are better educated than in America. Nearly everyone knows at least 3 languages. It just pisses me off to see that wannabe Kerry exploiting my 2nd favorite country in an attempt to decieve my #1 favorite country.
On a lighter note in June I spent 3 days in Baguio. I will have a house in Baguio! We stayed at Camp John Haye in the new hotel it was AWESOME! If you go back to PI you have to go to Baguio. They have a big mall now that rivals anything in the US. McDonalds are everywhere and KFC they even have a Popeye's chicken. Although the burgers suck because the meat isn't as good. Most of the time we spent in Naga City and it was hot. I also went to Clark. The US left PI a lot better than we found it. And the filipinos know it, they miss the US Military. We may have done some partying while we were there but we did some good too.
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Construimus Batuimus

[Paul]

"had a Piso on his tongue. . . "

Hi Richard:

Just a side note. Thanks for the story. Although, I'd never heard anything about a guy swallowing a piso before. You're right, I'd have been very skeptical. Stories about pisos being picked off guy's tongues were common, and I don't doubt them. Some others with other variations that I don't doubt but never saw personally, some others that I'm skeptical about still. . .

I mentioned the picking of the piso off the forehead because it's what a buddy opted for (he works in Las Vegas these days). It's a "purer demonstration," so to speak, since due to the lack of sensation by the man during the gal's plucking up the piso, there's no question about the degree of muscle control and precision. . . Like I said, it's striking what some learned to do with some portions of the human anatomy.

I have wondered before about how much practice it must have required -- what I suspect was at least hours worth on the side. . . what would one practice on? Books or other flat surfaces?

At the same time, it's not something that I ever did or would now spend much time contemplating. Given the skanks in those places that did that stuff, then I don't much like even the idea of even trying to envision it. . . Just a curiosity I never actually asked any of them about. . .
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Paul

[Paul]

"I havn't been ignoring the conversation Paul, in fact I have really enjoyed it. I got admitted to the hospital though for a heart attack monday and just got released today. I have to make some changes to my life and take it easy, which means staying off kerry and political sites for a while. I will try to look in every once in a while a little later on though so I do give my best to swiftvets and the people that support them. (Snappy salute)."

Hi Xsquid:

Sorry, this is the only place I know to answer or I'd have sent an email instead.

Man, I'm sorry to hear about your heart attack, guy.

Of course no problem at all for not posting. I understand perfectly. In fact, I appreciate your message here. You're a real stand up guy for doing it, as far as I'm concerned. Thank you!

You take it easy and take good care of yourself!

Nod back at you in acknowledgment [I'm uncovered ].
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Paul

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

Bob Chamberlain, now xsquid... I hope you guys are following doctor's orders and will get back to blooming health REAL fast!

Bless you!
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[UT2Woody]

There was a distinction between the girls there. The girls you saw giving the peso shows were not the same girls serving drinks. Not all the women were easily relieved of their virtue by a US dollar. Most of them were poor girls from the provinces trying to support their families which were many miles away. There was a difference between the hostesses and the "buy me drink I love you no **** girls". The hostesses were more often than not serving drinks only and also probably virgins. Yes women in PI usually stay virgins until they are married. The ones you saw in Olongapo or Subuc City that went short time or long time were not comparable to the nasty whores here in the US. Even the "hookers" had more morals than their contemporaries here in the US. I have seen peso shows in PI and heard all the "sea stories" about the wilder stuff. I do know they played "smiles" in Subic City but I never participated in the game. I sowed my wild oats in Olongapo and Subic for sure but I never tried to hurt anyone. All the bar girls I met in PI were head and shoulders above the bar girls I met anywhere else in the world including the US. It's hard to describe and probably nearly impossible for anyone else to understand unless you had been there as many times as I have. I did things and acted in a way I am not proud of now. If I could go back in time I would do things differently and help more people there.
I resent John Kerry trying to further his political ambitions by embellishing what he saw in Olongapo. But I am not suprised given the fact that he can't even tell the truth about his own service.
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Construimus Batuimus