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Craig
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 Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Greenhat wrote: | | Craig wrote: |
Some were proved to be liars. A way lot more were not proved to be liars and very many were substantiated.
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Document that. Who was substantiated? |
Screw you. It is your crew who makes such issue about "they" be proved liars. And you seem to think that you have come up with some new challenge that has not been addressed numerous times.
You provide verification of your claims and then I will consider if I want to deal with it. Other than that the best I will offer is that you look back through a lot of posts where what you demand has already been posted numerous times.
Going to the work to find links once or twice or again and again does not seem to take on such as you who be like the goose wakes to a whole new world every morning.
And don't even bother coming back with some crap about me not providing what I know and you know you have been provided well enough and plenty but you have an agenda and I do not even care if you might even have yourself convinced of your own crap.
On second thought - go ahead and bother to come back with the crap that I know you will.  |
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waltjones
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Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 392
Location: 'bout 40 miles north of Seattle
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 12:38 am Post subject: Substantiated? |
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Craig wrote:
Some were proved to be liars. A way lot more were not proved to be liars and very many were substantiated.
Craig:
Can't you get anything right? You have done zero research on this, correct? Sigh ... let me help. It turns out that the Navy was ordered to investigate because of some alleged Marines' testimony; they got nowhere - nobody cooperated, even if offered immunity. Not one single soldier or Marine's so-called "testimony" that Kerry cited in the Senate was substantiated. There were also cases which were proven to be unsubstantiated because false identities were used. Hell, look at Al Hubbard (if you know who he is) - that was the VVAW's style. Kerry was giving false testimony, and he knew it (I suppose I'll have to educate you about that, too!). So now that you've been proven dead wrong (again), are you going to leave like you said you would, or can we look forward to more of your idiocy?
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Walt Jones (USMC, '65 - '69) It says much about the person who defends a man with no honor. |
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mikest
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Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| I've stayed out of this because it is something I don't know much about. Plus I think many of you feel Kerry accused you of this, a position I disagree with. But I have a question. Didn't the Toledo Blade story pretty much confirm much of Kerry's testimony? |
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Craig
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 12:58 am Post subject: Re: Substantiated? |
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| waltjones wrote: | Craig wrote:
Some were proved to be liars. A way lot more were not proved to be liars and very many were substantiated.
Craig:
Can't you get anything right? You have done zero research on this, correct? Sigh ... let me help. It turns out that the Navy was ordered to investigate because of some alleged Marines' testimony; they got nowhere - nobody cooperated, even if offered immunity. Not one single soldier or Marine's so-called "testimony" that Kerry cited in the Senate was substantiated. There were also cases which were proven to be unsubstantiated because false identities were used. Hell, look at Al Hubbard (if you know who he is) - that was the VVAW's style. Kerry was giving false testimony, and he knew it (I suppose I'll have to educate you about that, too!). So now that you've been proven dead wrong (again), are you going to leave like you said you would, or can we look forward to more of your idiocy? |
Cool. You say something is proved and and that is proof enough.
You should be a district attorney. Maybe you are. You are certainly honost and honorable enough for the job.
Yup - there was given some fals testimony for sure.
That brings to mind of something recent.
Let me see what is it that it brings to mind?
Is it evidence and proof of WMD that it brings to mind?
A song comes to mind.
I think it was a guy named Joe singing something about Cakewalk to Baghdad
http://www.countryjoe.com/cjb.htm#cakewalk
Yea - that's the ticket.
Not some of his best work but I gather it was spur ofd the moment and he is about somthing better.
Oh - since you seem to have short memory span - even if you did manage to prove your case of the moment it was not the issue I was talking about.
Oh! Maybe i should impose conditions on what kind of links that you be allowed to present. I saw some Kerry hater doing that the other day emanding that links to something be not from kerry site.
When you provide your proofs I do not want to see any from known right wing slander sites. I would prefer sites that tell the truth or that lie blatantly. None of that half truth stuff. |
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Craig
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| mikest wrote: | | I've stayed out of this because it is something I don't know much about. Plus I think many of you feel Kerry accused you of this, a position I disagree with. But I have a question. Didn't the Toledo Blade story pretty much confirm much of Kerry's testimony? |
I dunno.
I think that I did overstate my case though. I should not have used the word "very".
The issue has had me talk a bit to folks. Shame that it would be incredibly rude to try to drag some folks I only know through friends to come here to tell some stories. Would not be worth squat anyway. Would be no way to tell if I made up stories and pretended to be someone or even if someone I drug here made them up.
The person who would have the most to tell is one who folks do not like for the issue to come up around him. He can get pretty intense with his regret.
I do get pretty weary of these Bill Gates sorts. "... an aberration ...." one can wonder how many isolated incidents can add up to a trend. |
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Carl Bowman
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Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 2:06 am Post subject: |
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Craig, Does this statment mean you were on trial for manufacturing methamphetamine? No wonder you are a Kerry Supporter.
| Quote: | | Now at my trial there was an "expert" witness who said that in his opinion I was manufacturing methamphetamine. There was also a statement he made that he had just recently read that Hydriodic acid could be made by refluxing iodine and muriatic acid |
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Craig
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| Carl Bowman wrote: | Craig, Does this statement mean you were on trial for manufacturing methamphetamine? No wonder you are a Kerry Supporter.
| Quote: | | Now at my trial there was an "expert" witness who said that in his opinion I was manufacturing methamphetamine. There was also a statement he made that he had just recently read that Hydriodic acid could be made by refluxing iodine and muriatic acid |
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I do not follow your reasoning.
I was on trial for manufacturing methamphetamine therefor we know why I am a Kerry supporter?
I think that you have more unproven assumptions than you can deal with.
Do you suppose that had I been on trial for manufacturing cocaine would have made a Bush supporter of me?
I'd suppose that either one of them did felonies they were just not caught but I would put my money on Bush doing the way lot more drugs than Kerry.
But that is easy to say since there would be no way to verify the bet.
I never manufactured any drugs and I got pissed at ******** who kept pestering me to do so. - I did have dealings with drugs and i guess I must have said something like "valance bond" sometime that someone heard and they thought I must be the grand master cook of the universe.
I messed with a lot of chemicals and I guess the closest to drug that I wanted to manufacture would be chloral hydrate and that was not for drug purposes but for a thing called Meltsers - metslers - some kind of reagent that sounds like that for staining mushrooms as an approach to trying to identify some. I could scan the page with the recipe - it uses chloral and water and iodine - I forget the proportions. - and sodium iodide. I think that is an aid for Iodine to be more soluble in water, ??
And it was for identifying edible mushrooms. I don't need no dye to recognize the fun ones.
I'd told the most of my drug associates to go to hell the year before a person had a problem and figured that it would be better that I dealt with it than him having to.
I only ever read a Correctional officer off one time. I said "You are the one who brought it up. - and then it is rude of you to say "they all say that" when you know goddamned well that all of them are not lying when they say "I didn't do it" "
I was not shy to admit that I done other things that would have gotten near as much time. But I'd gotten fed up maybe over half a year before I got busted and - like I said I told most of my associates "friends" to not bother visiting me anymore.
I got along fine enough in prison even though I refused to use the local vernacular and would not respond to being called "wood" - Contraction of peckerwood. Generally what white guys is called - but maybe I was only one in prison who knew the origin that it was someone who screwed his slaves in the Old South. |
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Carl Bowman
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Joined: 16 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| Craig your responce says it all, the only lower than Kerry is a drug dealer |
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carpro
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Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| mikest wrote: | | I've stayed out of this because it is something I don't know much about. Plus I think many of you feel Kerry accused you of this, a position I disagree with. But I have a question. Didn't the Toledo Blade story pretty much confirm much of Kerry's testimony? |
Not hardly , Mike.
If you are talking about Tiger Force, it was still only 1 platoon. Less than 40 men.
Millions served. 1 platoon isn't "commomplace" and "all levels of command".
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"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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mikest
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Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| carpro wrote: | | mikest wrote: | | I've stayed out of this because it is something I don't know much about. Plus I think many of you feel Kerry accused you of this, a position I disagree with. But I have a question. Didn't the Toledo Blade story pretty much confirm much of Kerry's testimony? |
Not hardly , Mike.
If you are talking about Tiger Force, it was still only 1 platoon. Less than 40 men.
Millions served. 1 platoon isn't "commomplace" and "all levels of command". |
I just don't know enough about it. I'll take your word for it and drop out of this conversation. |
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Craig
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Carl Bowman wrote: | | Craig your responce says it all, the only lower than Kerry is a drug dealer |
LOL - and I assure you that my decision to quit was not any religious sort of seeing the light or any great moral revelation. I was mostly fed up with the ******** - and actually there was a multitude of reasons but none of them I am sure that you would find morally redeeming.
I did not repent and I am not ashamed. I had even said to someone once that if I could remove the damned stuff from existence I might except that would probably just result in more use of even worse ****.
People did get a better product and better deal from me than they did elsewhere. For whatever that is worth.
"Thou shall not commit adultery" that religious quote does not have any to do with why I didn't use cut in my product and just peddled it as I got it. I did think it funny though that folks have been adulterating white powders for way long time. There was some bread found in some ancient tomb - I forget what percentage of it was found to be talc.
Isn't that amusing? Filling but less fattening? 
What do you think of child molesters then?
Kerry would be worse than a child molester but maybe a child molesting drug dealer would be about as low as one could get?
Well, thanks for your hilarious response - or responce if you prefer.  |
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Carl Bowman
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Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 4:02 am Post subject: |
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Craig, I think drug dealers are one of the worst child molesters, This country has thousands of children with their minds ruined by drugs, on the street selling their bodys to support their drug habit, the prisons are full of thieves who were caught stealin to support a drug habit.
By the way, how are you going to vote? I don't think convicted fellons have a right to vote? |
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waltjones
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Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 392
Location: 'bout 40 miles north of Seattle
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 4:43 am Post subject: |
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Craig, no wonder you defend a man with no honor; you appear from your above remarks to be a sociopath. I'm so sorry ..... Thatisall.
_________________
Walt Jones (USMC, '65 - '69) It says much about the person who defends a man with no honor. |
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Craig
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| Carl Bowman wrote: | Craig, I think drug dealers are one of the worst child molesters, This country has thousands of children with their minds ruined by drugs, on the street selling their bodys to support their drug habit, the prisons are full of thieves who were caught stealing to support a drug habit.
By the way, how are you going to vote? I don't think convicted fellons have a right to vote? |
It is interesting what you think.
Drug dealing is a tough job but somebody's got to do it.
It came to me that it didn't need to be me doing it so I retired and went about other things and fancied that I might even been becoming a pretty straight citizen not even doing much of anything illegal other than if someone might offer me a toke or a line or some such. I was even turning that down for the most part anymore.
Hell, I was just trying to think when I last did anything of a drug. I am not even certain if I might have smoked any pot this year.
Yea I can vote and have even done so. I didn't vote for anyone in primary because I am not registered to any party that had a candidate.
How am I going to vote? I suppose with a pencil marking a paper unless they come up with some of them new fangled machines in my locality. I am betting that they stick with the pencil though.
There are a lot of people in prison who are thieves. I thought it funny that there was a fellow in drug rehab for stealing cars. He said that he didn't even use drugs but doing the rehab thing would get him less time than just going to regular prison for car theft.
I knew another fellow who dealt drugs to support his own habit and he was excluded from the rehab for sake of "profiteering" because he had drugs and a thousand dollars when they caught him.
Someone steals a forty thousand dollar car and is worthy to rehab and someone with too much money is not rehab material. But even the cops at Hotel California might tell you that the system is designed to fail.
Looking back I kinda think it hilarious that I was excluded from that CRC. I had a lot of chemicals. Never mind that 90% of them could not have anything to do with making drugs - I had a lot of chemicals and i had glassware. The glassware was the cutest little miniature set of stuff that I really admired. I think that if I'd had all the things to attach it all together Might have been able to turn out maybe a quarter ounce every couple of days.
None of the folks I dealt to dealt to kids - though I would suppose that some might have gotten to some kids somehow or other. For the most of them I do not suppose it to be high ethics that they didn't deal to kids it was just that they didn't. Maybe they just didn't know any drug using kids. ??
Whatever. Anybody who was going to get drugs was going to get them whether I dealt them or not. Some couple of them folks even had screaming fit at me when I said that I was not doing it anymore and that since our "friendship" was pretty much based on drugs they did not need to visit me anymore. Well, one woman had a tantrum fit the other only raised her voice a little. The fellows went with more grace than that. I wasn't anyones only source but I was their best.
Oh well. You are certainly an opinionated piece of work.
What do you think of farm workers who cheat their customers? I used to own a truck and hauled silage. Can you believe that I got fired for sake of my reluctance to cheat the dairymen on the weights of loads?
I did accept stolen merchandise a couple times in trade for some drugs. I had someone take a shotgun to the police and I hope they were honest about getting it back to its rightful owner. Beautiful piece of work it was.
I found the person whose name was inscribed in a gold ring one time. He thought I was a nutcase and said he'd sold the thing years before. Cops finally stole that from me.
What do you think of TV commercials that present lying and stealing as cute? |
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Craig
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| waltjones wrote: | | Craig, no wonder you defend a man with no honor; you appear from your above remarks to be a sociopath. I'm so sorry ..... Thatisall. |
I don't have great desire to get out and socialize a lot these days.
No honor? I don't know. Maybe whatever his might be just does not agree with your own. I've known some folks who i did not especially agree with some of their standard but i was respectful enough that they had some. It seemed to me a refreshing thing that even is rare in a lot of law abiding citizens.
LOL - I sure would get some strange responses from some of my drug dealing peers when i would remark that "I may be a criminal but I'm honest." I think that drug dealing gives some folks a bad self image such that because they do one illegal thing that they might toss all values over the side. Or maybe they didn't have any to begin with.
LOL - It is funny this drug carrying on got me looking back. Thirty some years ago I was not interested in dealing drugs at all but I did have a buddy who had good connections so I had good source for pot and hash and LSD now and again. He kept wanting me to deal **** for him but I declined until I shared rent with a buddy when i went to junior college. When he met my other buddy they decided to do some drug dealing so I figured if I was going to live where it went on I might as well do it some. So it came pretty quick to my doing all the damned work and having to socialize with a lot more folks than I really cared to.
The room mate went on to become a cop. I don't know what became of the other fellow. the both liked drugs a lot more than I did. i suppose that the cop one has had to quit smoking the pot now. We are not friends anymore - that came about before he became a cop. He is probably a good cop for this area since he was a lying sack of .... stuff.
What do you think of cops who lie under oath?
I would not take the oath and I did not lie at my trial. I refused to answer a couple questions about peoples names and i thought that good example of why it be not wisdom to be making oaths. Had i taken the oath I would have found myself in a dilemma of having to dishonor the oath or to have had to done dishonor by naming names.
Is it not a grand absurdity though - that I would not lie and they felt it necessary to lie to get me convicted of something that I had not done and had particular intention to not do?
What do you think an oath is worth in this day and age? Does it depend on what the definition of is, is?
Is a man as good as his word then? |
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