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deadzone1003
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 9
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 Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:18 pm Post subject: Political or Personal? |
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I've been following the Swiftvets for the last 10 days and I have come to the conclusion that the battle between the swiftvets and Kerry is a personal one. The battle appears to be in the political arena with the Kerry camp believing that this is a political battle. However, reading "Unfit for Command" and following the many interviews of the Swiftvets has lead me to the conclusion that for the Swiftvets it is a personal battle, one to regain their dignity, stripped away by John Kerry and the anti-war crowd in the 1970's. This is an opportunity to refight a fight that should have occurred after the war.
After being shot at by the Viet Cong in Vietnam and being called "War Criminals" or "Baby Killers" by the strangers upon returning from Vietnam, being called a "liar" by John Kerry's people is nothing for the Swiftvets. For the Swiftvets, they are trying to regain their dignity and honor. So, to the Kerry people, this battle is not political, its personal. The battle will not be over until John Kerry is destroyed or the Swiftvets are destroyed. May the best man win!  |
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Chuck54
PO1
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 466
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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The swiftvets were willing to let bygones be bygones as long as Kerry stayed in the shadows. But to allow him to be C in C without speaking up....nothing doing.
Yup, the fight is between Kerry and the swiftvets, not Kerry and Bush. But it is more than just personal, its about truth, integrity, and honor, such things that good people hold dear to them.
The swiftvets are clearly the better men, regardless of the outcome  .
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"And no pair has been more wrong, more loudly, more often, than the two Senators from Massachusetts, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry"
Zell Miller |
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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It's ALWAYS been personal. Kerry is the one who made it political. From the moment he joined the VVAW and pitched his decorations, hung out with Hanoi Jane, testified falsely before Congress, then consorting with the enemy in Paris, then running for the Senate, and now running for CIC.
Kerry is one one who is the politician in this skit. Not the Swift Vets.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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jwb7605
Rear Admiral
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 690
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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I have a close friend at work, who was "kicked out" of Tajikistan for being Jewish in 1991. No kidding. They took his citizenship away, and put him on a plane! He was in the Russian Army Reserves (attending College) in Moscow while I was in the Navy. He's a genuine official U.S. citizen now, and very proud of it. If you think some of the people in this group are conservative, you "ain't seen nothing".
He asked me today "how can the people in this country even consider voting for this man (Kerry), after what he did back then? He was referring to the VVAW activities, and could not have cared less about the military service.
I told him I had no idea. It was just a personal thing, with me, at this point.
I also told him I'd be sure and pose the question on this board somewhere, giving him full credit for his background, of course.
He appreciated that, and said that in other countries, Kerry never would have made it this far ... what was WRONG with people? This wasn't a political thing. |
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Which reminds me of a question I have:
Does anyone recall the DATE of the "ribbon toss"? Was it BEFORE or AFTER the DATE of the testimony before the Senate shown in the ad where Kerry is seen wearing his ribbons (VERY against regulations, as I recall)? The ones he pitched over the White House fence, I assume.
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USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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If you go back to the earliest archives of this forum, you will see this refrain repeated often: This is not political...it's personal.
Kerry and the DNC still don't get it. It is a personal war being fought in the political arena.
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"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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Kerry's failure to understand that this is a deep issue of integrity, honor, and character....and has nothing to do with mere party affiliation...is costing him his campaign. I don't think he would be able to see reality if it hit him with a 2x4....and that left him totally unprepared for what happened.
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-Polaris
Truth is Beauty |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | the fight is between Kerry and the swiftvets |
Many of the rest of us vets are here supporting the Swiftvets because it is also personal for us too. Kerry smeared us all and I for one don't forget all that easy.
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Clark County Conservative |
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MrBuzzcut
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: | | Quote: | | the fight is between Kerry and the swiftvets |
Many of the rest of us vets are here supporting the Swiftvets because it is also personal for us too. Kerry smeared us all and I for one don't forget all that easy. |
Many of us are far too young to have been personally smeared by Kerry in 1971, but his actions then hurt us because they hurt men fighting for us.
I recall being 4 or 5 years old in 1970 or 1971 and seeing the hippies and Ho Chi Mihn lovers marching on the nightly news, burning the flag and smoking dope ... I had no idea why, but they repulsed me.
As a young child it never occured to me that anyone would besmirch courageous men fighting for freedom vs. communism ... only in my teens did I learn how these men were treated when they came home. I was appalled and continue to be.
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Visit The Ponderosa -- http://www.vandelay.com |
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Marine4life
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 591
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:04 am Post subject: |
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I just read the lies on my MSN homepage. They claim without a doubt that we are connected with Bush and he is calling the shots. Bald face lies and it is in the article where Kerry filed his cry baby claim. Anyone have a suggestion for a new homepage? I emailed them and it was so hot it almost burnt my screen on the way out. Semper Fi.
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Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes. |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: | | Quote: | | the fight is between Kerry and the swiftvets |
Many of the rest of us vets are here supporting the Swiftvets because it is also personal for us too. Kerry smeared us all and I for one don't forget all that easy. |
It's personal for us non-vets, too! I lived thru the Nam era and over these many years, I have found it extremely difficult to look at his face or hear him speak. I loathe the man.
It's personal for all citizens that bother to do some research if they don't have the memories about JK, because it concerns JK being an unfit choice to even have the audacity to think he can run for president wearing the honor of his service, a service he spit on before a nation he condemned -- he attacked the soul of this country and now thinks he can lead it?
As the SBVFT said at their Press Conf in May, JK is a liar and a fraud and unfit to be CiC -- The SBVFT are fighting for themselves and they are fighting for us and this is damn serious business! JK continues to lash out at Bush in a vain attempt to make this political and to keep this political -- and so the battle is engaged. It's rather disgusting to watch him continue to attack the vets, except of course for those he has manipulated onto his side -- oh these are the real veterans and those other guys are just nothing -- that's what he's saying by dismissing their charges. Just like in the anti-war years of his protests as he compared the numbers of his supporters as opposed to all the rest of the vets that O'Neill tried to defend in the '71 debate....
-- pretty much shows his feelings towards them hasn't changed much in all the years since he condemned them. He scoffed at their speaking out back then, and he wants to quash their speaking out now. He knows who these guys are and he knows they are telling the truth...
His job right now is to try and keep the blindfold on this country. I absolutely believe he will NOT be able to do that a SECOND time! Not here in America! GO SWIFTEES !!!! |
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bach04
Lieutenant
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 212
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:58 am Post subject: |
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I apologize if this has been posted before, but I think that this piece, at
http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/001197.html
summarizes the feelings of alot of veterans and nonveterans regarding his treasonous actions. It writes about Mr. Paul Galanti, who are among the veterans in the ad. Reading this, how can you forget or forgive such actions? It is certainly becomes personal after reading that. |
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jrsdad
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| Polaris wrote: | | Kerry's failure to understand that this is a deep issue of integrity, honor, and character....and has nothing to do with mere party affiliation...is costing him his campaign. I don't think he would be able to see reality if it hit him with a 2x4....and that left him totally unprepared for what happened. |
My biggest gripe about how people debate this is missing the point that it's about character, and thus very personal. Of course, the Dems make it personal with their ad hominem attacks on the Swift vets, and they attempt to spin it away from the central issue - did Kerry lie or embelish to create his "heroic service". They have to make it seem like this is a pro-Bush effort, missing the fact that it is anti-Kerry. They cannot see that there is a difference. Yet this is the very idea behind 527s - they cannot advocate for a candidate. The Dems have spent some $62 million on "ant-Bush" ads, so you would think they would understand.
As usual the Dems turn the attack around (Judicial committee memos showing Dems carrying out the wishes of special interest groups, turn it around that Reps leaked). They are much better at politics. The Swift vets want their story heard. The media don't understand the issues, even when they want to defend the SBVFT.
I just listened to Michael Reagan trying to respond to Alan Colmes who showed changes in what Lonsdale and Elliot said in 1996 and today. No one seems to have gotten it through to Reagan that the reason they changed is that since ToD was published they learned the truth. In 1996 they were basing their stateents on what Kerry had written about his "heroics."
Time to donate some more to SBVFT. They need to get some of the basic arguments before the defenders so they understand what is really being said. |
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MarineBrat
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 144
Location: Right edge of the loony left coast.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:18 am Post subject: |
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It's personal for me. My father fought in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. Total of 8 tours (3-2-3). Anyone who labels him a war criminal is the target of my own very personal disagreement. If the Swifties never showed up I would have never known about Kerry's VVAW days, and I'm thankful to them for alerting me (and the rest of us). So, Hanoi Boy and myself will have a "thing" between us for the rest of our days, assuming he's not able to come clean and apologize to me and all of the other service members and their families.
Semper Fi, to all of you Vets, and family! Welcome to your healing. Welcome Home!
MarineBrat
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God Bless Our Veterans Of The USA! Thank you for your service!
If you can read, thank a teacher. If you can read in English, thank a Veteran! |
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Tom Poole
Vice Admiral
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 914
Location: America
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:45 am Post subject: Personal or Political... |
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The world would be a better place if these terms dictated the same or at least very similar behavior. It seems the Swiftees have it right and the world already is a better place for me. Now, if the politicians would simply personalize the issues, well...
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'58 Airedale HMR(L)-261 VMO-2 |
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