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ccr
Commander
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 325
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 Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:18 am Post subject: WTH? A second good Wash Post Story.... |
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There are some important quotes in this story....
| Quote: | | Yesterday, Kerry did not respond to the new allegations, although aides said his testimony was directed at military leadership, not the soldiers fighting in Vietnam. |
And...
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Kerry, who hoped to focus on domestic matters, finds himself plotting a response to a veterans group that did not even exist a few months ago over an issue he thought had died. He has been forced to spend money and valuable time responding. Kerry talked with aides throughout the day about a strategy to put the issue of his Vietnam service and protests to rest.
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But my favorite...
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Most distressing to the Kerry camp, the survey found that 44 percent of independent voters considered the ad very or somewhat believable....
The new ad could prove even more damaging, according to several Democratic strategists
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The URL...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20193-2004Aug20.html
| Quote: | Group to Air Ad Attacking Kerry's 1971 Testimony
Democrats Counter on TV And With Legal Challenge
By Jim VandeHei
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, August 21, 2004; Page A01
The fight over Vietnam and valor consumed the presidential campaign yesterday, as a group of veterans accused John F. Kerry of betraying fellow soldiers and dishonoring the country when he became a leader of the antiwar movement upon his return, and Democrats launched a new counteroffensive.
A new ad by the anti-Kerry group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth condemns the Democratic nominee for making allegations of war crimes and atrocities committed by American soldiers. "It hurt me more than any physical wounds I had," a Vietnam veteran says in the ad about Kerry's highly publicized testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971.
With polls showing attacks on Kerry's war record reaching large numbers of voters and resonating with many independents and veterans, the Democratic National Committee defended Kerry with a new ad, featuring retired Air Force Gen. Merrill A. McPeak -- a Bush supporter in 2000. "John Kerry has the strength and common sense we need in a commander in chief," McPeak says in the ad. Kerry will try to shift the focus back to President Bush with an ad that will be unveiled tomorrow, a top aide said.
Yesterday, Kerry did not respond to the new allegations, although aides said his testimony was directed at military leadership, not the soldiers fighting in Vietnam. The Kerry campaign filed a legal challenge against the veterans group, alleging it is illegally colluding with the Bush campaign. Aides denounced the president and his aides for what they called a smear campaign.
Debate over war and protests three decades ago drowned out discussion of issues such as Iraq, terrorism, the economy and health care. It is dominating the strategy sessions of the two campaigns and changing the political calculations of both parties.
Kerry, who hoped to focus on domestic matters, finds himself plotting a response to a veterans group that did not even exist a few months ago over an issue he thought had died. He has been forced to spend money and valuable time responding. Kerry talked with aides throughout the day about a strategy to put the issue of his Vietnam service and protests to rest.
Bush is trying to distance himself from the attacks and capitalize on them at the same time. A local Bush-Cheney organization in Florida, for example, is listed in a new brochure promoting an upcoming rally of the anti-Kerry Swift boat veterans. Steve Schmidt, a Bush spokesman, said the effort was not approved by Bush headquarters.
Underscoring how personal the dispute has become, Bush's campaign chairman, Marc Racicot, went on CNN and said the Kerry campaign has come "unhinged," and that Kerry himself "looks wild-eyed." Earlier yesterday, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Kerry is "losing his cool." In 2000, the Bush campaign used similar language to portray rival Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) as potentially too unstable to run the country.
David Wade, a Kerry spokesman, responded in kind: "Maybe if George Bush had seen combat up close his hired-gun mouthpiece wouldn't be so flip." Not to be outdone, Kerry spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter said, "Mr. McClellan needs to understand that John Kerry is not the type of leader who will sit and read 'My Pet Goat' to a group of second-graders while America is under attack." On Sept. 11, 2001, Bush remained in a Florida classroom for several minutes after learning that planes had flown into the World Trade Center.
Cutter said Bush's military service may become a bigger issue in the days ahead. "If George Bush continues to smear [Kerry's] service, voters have a right to look at Bush's failure to serve out his time in the National Guard," she said. Bush maintains that he fulfilled his duties.
Kerry, who has been criticized by Democrats for mishandling the controversy, has been damaged by the veterans' accusations, according to two polls. Three weeks after the anti-Kerry veterans questioned whether the Democratic nominee lied to win decorations in Vietnam, a CBS poll showed Kerry dropping 18 points behind Bush among veterans. The candidates were even only weeks ago.
Although the Swift boat group says it spent just $500,000 airing its first ad in three states, a new poll by the University of Pennsylvania's National Annenberg Election Survey found that more than half of voters questioned had seen or heard of the ad, often on cable news shows. Most distressing to the Kerry camp, the survey found that 44 percent of independent voters considered the ad very or somewhat believable.
The new ad could prove even more damaging, according to several Democratic strategists. The ad, which will air next week in Pennsylvania, New Mexico and Nevada, takes selected portions of Kerry's antiwar testimony from 1971 to portray the nominee as brutally critical of Americans in Vietnam. "They had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads," Kerry is shown testifying in the opening clip. A few seconds later, Ken Cordier, a veteran, says: "He betrayed us in the past -- how can we be loyal to him now?"
"This is another ad from a front group funded by Bush allies that is trying to smear John Kerry," Kerry spokesman Jonathan Beeton said in a statement. "The newest ad takes Kerry's testimony out of context, editing what he said to distort the facts. He testified as a 27-year-old Vietnam veteran. He opposed a war that, at that point, cost over 44,000 lives of the 58,245 names that are on the Vietnam Memorial wall."
In defense of Kerry, aides distributed a copy of the candidate's comments on NBC's "Meet the Press" earlier this year, when he conceded the language was sometimes excessive. "I think some soldiers were angry at me for that, and I understand that and I regret that, because I love them," Kerry said on the April 18 program. "But the words were honest, but on the other hand they were a little bit over the top."
An official with the Swift boat group says it raised more than $300,000 via the Internet on Thursday, because of the publicity the attacks are garnering.
The Kerry campaign filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission yesterday, hoping to force the group to pull its ad attacking the candidate's service in Vietnam. But election experts -- and even some Kerry aides -- concede it is highly unlikely the commission will intervene. Several aides are pushing Kerry to directly challenge Bush's stateside service in the National Guard and force the president to prove he fulfilled his service requirements in 1972.
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LewWaters
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Joined: 18 May 2004
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Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Kerry talked with aides throughout the day about a strategy to put the issue of his Vietnam service and protests to rest. |
Maybe, if he hadn't made it central to his campaign and hadn't brought it up ever few minutes, he wouldn't have this worry now. 
It also says he thought it was a dead issue. He thought wrong. You don't malign some 3.5 million people, especially veterans, and expect them to forget easily.
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IpsoFacto
Seaman
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:28 am Post subject: |
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Well, at least in this one they do more "reporting" and less "opinion" than the previous.
But the way the liberal media is framing this, the advices that they seem to provide to Kerry and the frustration shown in their powerless words show you that these veteran's campain is proving to be lethal for Mr. Hanoi Kerry, ehem, excuseme, Mr. John Kerry  |
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Maybe, if he hadn't made it central to his campaign and hadn't brought it up ever few minutes, he wouldn't have this worry now.
It also says he thought it was a dead issue. He thought wrong. You don't malign some 3.5 million people, especially veterans, and expect them to forget easily.
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Well its not just vets. For me it's about dishonoring both my grandfathers WWII service and their stoic nature till the day they died not to talk of their heroism. This cuts a nerve with many people for many reasons.
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"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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efuseakay
Ensign
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:42 am Post subject: |
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An official with the Swift boat group says it raised more than $300,000 via the Internet on Thursday, because of the publicity the attacks are garnering.
Excellent! |
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ArmyWife
Lieutenant
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:42 am Post subject: |
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GenrXr,
Great post! I'm glad that you can connect with this issue on the basis of your Grandfathers and WWII.
As you can guess by my moniker, I am married to a current soldier. I have wondered many times, even on this board, if folks without more immediate military family members can possibly grasp the seriousness of the issues here. I wonder if they can understand how important Honor is to people in uniform. You are giving me hope. I had feared that 2 generations was too far for it to carry. |
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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Guys,
The fact that the Washington Post of all papers would break ranks and print hard hitting articles with regard to Kerry has got to have the DNC very worried.
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CAVLRRP
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 8
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:59 am Post subject: |
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Hanoi John and Hanoi Jane!
Where's the new urinal stickers?
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jack white
Seaman
Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:59 am Post subject: |
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Polaris writes:
<<The fact that the Washington Post of all papers would break ranks and print hard hitting articles with regard to Kerry has got to have the DNC very worried.>>
This is on the money.
To illustrate Pollaris' point, only yesterday did the WaPo do a semi-hatchet job. This shows that, despite their op-ed position, their reporters have been disturbed by what has flushed to the surface.
This is, as previoulsy pointed out, the turning point. The WaPo and everyone else at some later date can lament that Kerry came so close.
God bless republican (small "r") democracy. |
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Chuck54
PO1
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 466
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| efuseakay wrote: | An official with the Swift boat group says it raised more than $300,000 via the Internet on Thursday, because of the publicity the attacks are garnering.
Excellent! |
Grass roots support....so much for the wealthy republican angle.
Go swiftvets, keep that money rolling in from people who value truth, integrity, and honor.
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:05 am Post subject: |
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ArmyWife!
Support your soldier good woman!
None of my siblings have been in the military and were all getting old. I wanted to go in during desert storm 91', but my family said we had paid enough blood let others go. I really regret not enlisting because for me I believe it's a personal duty and sacrifice all young men should go through. Well last month my youngest sister said she wanted to keep our family in the military and enlisted as a surgical tech in the army at the ripe ole age of 25. She recently called on the phone from boot camp in MO and my father answered the phone. Dad said he heard cissy crying and a drill sergeant in the background yelling then the phone click dead. I loved that. I had tears in my eyes not only for my sisters anguish over her realizing she is now property of the government but the fact that she made the sacrifice none of her siblings did. When 9/11 happened I was on the comp and saw the drudge report pics of plane one landing in thw world trade center. Well the moment I hit refresh their was a second pic of both towers being hit. I called my dad and said this is it. We must put boots on the ground our isolationist policies will not cut it anymore. We have to give the middle east prosperity and educate these backward people. But only way to do that is by as any full bird will tell you 'kill people and break things'. It was definately time for war. My best friend is EOD Navy officer and did a lot of command out of Bahrain for the Afghanistan campaign and I can tell you from his word to me and what hes heard since we are doing the right thing. But more then that I go back to my initial reflection to my father on 9/11 when I said we must put boots on the ground. We have and it is becuase of people like your husband ArmyWife. Be proud and I hope he comes home safe to you.
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"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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Lily
Lieutenant
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 244
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:32 am Post subject: |
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I was never going to vote for Kerry, the SBVT ads have just served to reinforce that decision. However, what I have noticed is the lack of presidential temperament of John Kerry. George Bush and even Bill Clinton had everything but the kitchen sink thrown at them and remained cool underfire.Kerry seems almost childish in comparison hiding behind lawyers, lashing out at George Bush and engaging in name calling because someone dared challenge his "war hero" persona.Kerry could call a news conference like Geraldine Ferrao(sp) did when she was a vice presidential candidate and questions were raised about her finances.She answered questions and was pretty impressive underfire. Kerry won't call a news conference because he can't risk being asked embarassing questions he'd rather not answer.
I'm also struck by the amateurish handling of this by the Kerry campaign. So far three different people have shown up on talk shows to debate John O'Neill and O'Neill has demolished everyone of them. If Kerry can't handle the Swiftboat Vets how's anyone to believe he can handle Iran, North Korea or the war on terror? I'm sure none of this is lost on undecided voters.
Last edited by Lily on Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | However, what I have noticed is the lack of presidential temperament of John Kerry. George Bush and even Bill Clinton had everything but the kitchen sink thrown at them and remained cool underfire. |
See my thread on resting heartbeats 
http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3750
_________________
"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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Robert Cooper
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 134
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Washington Post: In defense of Kerry, aides distributed a copy of the candidate's comments on NBC's "Meet the Press" earlier this year, when he conceded the language was sometimes excessive. "I think some soldiers were angry at me for that, and I understand that and I regret that, because I love them," Kerry said on the April 18 program. "But the words were honest, but on the other hand they were a little bit over the top." |
The words were honest - but, not totally honest. Do you recognize a familiar format here. Why can't the man just come out and say: "Sorry, guys - but I in fact did look those Senators in the face at the 1971 Hearing before Congress and just flat told them bald faced lies in order to further my agenda."
With these words being said recently on "Meet the Press" does it sound like he has changed in his character since 1971? I can hear it now: "I am President Kerry and I am here to tell you the truth about the state of our Union." At this I would have to turn channels - I mean, really - why waste my time listening to him - he's a congenital liar!
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Lily
Lieutenant
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 244
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| GenrXr wrote: | | Quote: | | However, what I have noticed is the lack of presidential temperament of John Kerry. George Bush and even Bill Clinton had everything but the kitchen sink thrown at them and remained cool underfire. |
See my thread on resting heartbeats
http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3750 |
The article notes that the Bush campaign described Kerry as looking "wild eyed", "losing his cool" and his campaign as "unhinged".When you are President of the United States they should never see you sweat. Apparently not everyone can handle the pressure.
Last edited by Lily on Sat Aug 21, 2004 6:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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