SwiftVets.com

[LewWaters]

SFT, ask yourself, why did Senator McCain write an article in the early 70s broadly condemning John Kerry, yet today, they are friends and McCain has spoken out against the Swift vets and no one questions him?

Just like McCain did with Kerry, some of the Swift vets supported Kerry until they found out the depth of his deceit. They have now come together and aligned themselves against Kerry.

If you really want to question past sayings, question why it was that Kerry was saying military service during Vietnam made no difference, when he was supporting Clinton's bid for office, yet today, he has made it central to his campaign.

If past support for Kerry is an issue now, why isn't the past comments by Kerry equally at issue? Where his past comments false and in need of rebuking?

All the evidence needed is found in some good old fashioned common sense.
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Clark County Conservative

[Bhist]

I couldn't have said it better, Lew. Good job.
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Watch Kerry Implode Because Of Truth!!
Watch Rather Implode Because Of Lies!!

[Search for the truth]

In today's AP supported Miami herald, the article states that none of these 15 people actually served on a boat with Mr. Kerry.
Roy Hoffman is on record praising Mr. Kerry
George Elliot personnally recommended Mr Kerry for silver and Bronze medals for valor.
Mr. Elliot is quoted as saying that Mr. Kerry is calm professional and highly couraguos in the face of enemy fire.
The article goes on to give eferences to these quotes.
Are they accurate?

[GoophyDog]

Search; I'm not a member of Swift Vets however I am a vet. I'm honored that they allow me to participate here.

Now, to answer some of your questions. Perhaps you missed the basis of forum:

That Kerry served is not in question and it is applauded that he did go.

HOWEVER

There are serious doubts to the validity of the awards presented based on embelished after action reports, timing of the awards, and their ultimate use to leave Vietnam nearly 8 months earlier than any of his peers.

FURTHER

Senator Kerry's activities upon returning to the states are questionable in that he, has been seen as giving aid and comfort to the enemy; conducted unauthorized and illegal private negotiations with a foreign goverment; and most seriously, gave false testimony before congress that slandered all who served at that time, placing them in greater danger and exacerbating the conditions of those who were held in captivity.

IN ADDITION

Senator Kerry has made these acts a foundation of his campaign. Groups such as Swift Vets feel it their duty to bring to light the falsehoods, misrepresentation and blatent prevarications that form this foundation. Others can question Kerry's lack of dedication to his current elected office (76% absenteeism), his lack of firm committment to any issue (flip flop extreme) and proven poll hunting technique of leadership.

What forums such as this one discuss and bring forward are simply facts that have carried over for 30+ years showing Mr. Kerry is not fit, qualified, or worthy to serve in the highest elected office in our country.
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Why ask? Because it needs asking.

[LewWaters]

Nice try, SFT, but the "served on the same boat" canard is just a smokescreen. Several Kerry supporters also didn't serve on the same boat, so how can they be believed?

Look here to see how the boats operated and judge for yourself if what the Swift vets are saying was what they actually saw,

http://pcf45.com/notsameboat.doc
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Clark County Conservative

[twinkleUSA]

If you are referring to the stuff that I saw yesterday on Hannity & Colmes. Colmes did a little piece he called "what they say now and what they said then". I cannot remember the names of the guys... but at least one of them is in the newest SBVT ad. He now is against Kerry, but in 1996 he stood up and praised Kerry.

I say SO WHAT!!
I fail to see the relevance of a couple of people who once stood up and supported Kerry in a 1996 Senate election who have since then found out more facts about Kerry and have now changed their minds about him.

From what I understand, these guys were basing their praise on the standing official records. From what I understand, in the 8 years since they praised Kerry for his military service, they have uncovered the truth about Kerry based on the firsthand accounts of those who served WITH Kerry... as well as one of them said that he originally supported Kerry until he read the "Tour of Duty" book that is supposedly based on Kerry's experiences in Vietnam. This man (wish I could remember names...lol) said that the book was full of embellishments as well as outright lies and he changed his mind about Kerry.

Personally, I don't see how the fact that someone who once supported Kerry (8 years ago) and now has changed their mind can be used to discredit the SBVT one single bit. After all, one of the latest ads I've seen, either from Kerry himself or the moveon.org, portrays a man (a general or admiral I think) who says that in the 2000 election he supported Bush but this time he is gonna vote for Kerry. If the men who once supported Kerry should be discredited because because they changed their minds and do not support Kerry.... then shouldn't the man in the Kerry ads be discredited because he changed his mind as well?

I don't think it makes sense to discredit someones opinion simply because they have changed their minds. I ask this to anyone reading this post: Haven't you ever had a friend or somebody that you spoke well about, or praised, or supported or whatever and then some turn of events played out to make you change you opinion of them to a negative one?

Search for Truth... I wish you well in your search for Truth and I hope that you do not base your vote flimsy and irrelevant material such as was in the question you posted. Please keep on digging through this site and you will find the truth at least about Kerry's "hero" <cough> status. If you do end up basing your vote on who is keeping their story straight... then I have no doubt in my mind that whether you vote for Bush or Nader, you will not be casting a vote for Kerry. His camp has a lot of nerve to try and discredit a couple of SBVT members because they changed their opinions, when Kerry & his supporters shift, change and even recant their stories on a daily (and sometimes) hourly basis.

I urge you to keep on searching for the truth. Please don't let your quest end at this website. The lies that Kerry tells are not only based on his military antics... he has been plenty deceitful in all aspects of his "glowing" career and continues to do so in the speeches he gives that are unrelated to military service. I lost count of how many untruths he has stated the past couple of weeks alone, not even counting his attacks on the Bush campaign and the SBVT.

Remember, if in the end you do decide to vote for Kerry... you would be voting for a man who is bending over backwards, using litigation and bullying tactics to keep the truth hidden.

[rb325th]

SFT, you have been repeatedly asked for links to the stories you are quoting.
As to your contention that none of the Men who are denouncing Kerry did not serve on the same boat, well being in the the same group is just as good. You see they went out together, were based together, were only feet away from each other.
The comment you made is nothing more than Spin from Kerry and the DNC. Were you a Veteran yourself, perhaps you would have a better understanding of Military Units and the close proximity in wich you work and socialise.
Being on the same boat is not an issue, when some of the action for wich they Question Kerrys version were ones they themselves were on!
Kerry himself has already backed off and recanted some of his claims. Speciffically the Rassman incident where he claimed the other boats left and he remained, when in fact it was the other way around. The BSM Citations are based on someones After Action Report, with none of the other Commanders stating it was theirs, leaving Kerry to be the one who submitted it.
Kerry was never in Cambodia as he claimed. Kerry made claims of Atrocoties committed and has now tried to weasle his way out of it by stating he was just repeating others words (and most of those were phoneys). He has NOT released all his Records, has refused to sign the neccessary form to do so. Why?? There is a lot more, like his trip to Paris to meet with members of the N. Vietnames Govt. in direct violation of U.S. Law!!
You sound not like omeone looking for the truth. You sound like someone with an obvious agenda here and that is to further the DNCs Smear Campaign against the Swift Boat Veterans!
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U.S. Army 1983-1995, 11C1P/11H2P NBTDT

[mr_mechanical]

[twinkleUSA]

[twinkleUSA]

One more thing... even though I'm sure this could go under another post...lol

Why... WHY WHY... do they keep saying that it's not the people "who served on the boat" who are attacking Kerry???? There is at least one person who served ON Kerry's boat that denounces Kerry's claims of the incidents that took place.

Why does every news report toss Steve Gradner to the side. Even if it's ONE person, it's not right to discredit his accounts.

grrrr

[tvaughan]

How could someone come on to this forum, or any forum with veterans and pull the "not on the same boat" stuff?

Do they actually think not being on the same Swift Boat (They keep forgetting about Gardner, who served with Kerry the longest) makes them unable to judge? To anyone with any knowledge, that contention is just plain silly.

But anyone who knows, would have to know that this is the last place one could get away with that garbage.

I think some of the Dems actually believe it. No, wait. They can't actually believe it because they quote favorable comments from guys not on Kerry's boat all the time.

But I can't imagine so many people flat out lying. Do they perhaps think they believe it? Convince themselves mainly?

They confuse me.
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Talking point #1: Sign 180
Talking point #2: Sign 180
Talking point #3: Sign 180

[Hoopdy_Doopdy]

Removed by moderator:

If you can support Kerry without bashing others and making unsubstantiated negative claims about the Swift vets, please do so. Otherwise, if your goal is to slander the Swift vets, please go elsewhere. We are here to discuss Kerry's worthiness as a potential President, respectfully.

[hanna]

As a lifetime civilian with no ties to the military whatsoever, I come from a different perspective.

It has become increasingly clear to me that Kerry has gone through life getting what he wants by lying.

Aside from lying about his adventures in Vietnam, I documented here, today, an article written in the WP about how he lied about having submitted legislation, in order to make himself look good so as to be elected. It was not true and he was caught. That is just one and for me, the most recent examples. The man is sick. Truly SICK, and therefore dangerous for our country.

Remember him saying he had talked to other foreign leaders and they said they preferred he be elected as opposed to Bush. Remember how he skirted around that? Well I am convinced that was yet another lie.

[Bhist]

Hoopdy_Doopdy

All the facts point to many lies that Kerry has stated over the years, including on the Senate floor, to do nothing but move his political career forward. If that met lying to smear Nixon, Vietnam Vets then and today, it didn't matter to him.

And, the hypocrisy of all hypocrites is the fact that people like you dare call the SBVT liars and smear mongers but not Kerry the same.
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Watch Kerry Implode Because Of Truth!!
Watch Rather Implode Because Of Lies!!

[twinkleUSA]

Hoopdy... it's clear that you have not been reading much here because there are plenty of HARD facts to support the SBVT. First and foremost... their goal is not to smear Kerry, as you put it. If you had read 1/100th of what has been reported by the SBVT then you would notice that their mission is not to smear Kerry... but to clean up the smeared reputation that Kerry has heaped upon them.