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Ragnar · Seaman Recruit Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 10

I have read about Kerry's first Purple Heart and the allegations that the tooth-pick-sized piece of metal poking into his arm came from the M-79 that he himself fired.

Having no experience with this weapon myself, I was wondering if some of the veterans here can tell me what the weapon was like. It looks like it just fired like a shotgun.

More importantly, I was wondering if it was common for a person firing the weapon to be exposed to some ricocheting shrapnel. Was this simply a hazard of using the M-79? Was Kerry just a really bad shot? What do you think?

Thanks in advance.

LewWaters · Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:57 pm Post subject:

You might do a web search on M-79 and you'll get many hits, showing the weapon and how it was used.

Usually, it was fired up in the air to lob a round (40 mm in diameter) towards the enemy position. It defintely isn't a close range weapon, like a shotgun would be. Instead of shot, it sent out a grenade that would explode upon impact.
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torque-pylit · Seaman Recruit Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 12

To Add:

The Army version of the weapon with which I am experienced, was similar to a large barrel, breakdown shotgun. such as you see in the "cop" movies when they shoot teargas. The Army version could fire grenade rounds, teargas round, a parachute flare round or a shotgun round for close-in fighting.

Wing Wiper · Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:30 pm Post subject:

I have some experience with the M-79. The high-explosive projectile had a "pinwheel" type arming device that required it to travel a certain distance before it could explode (in case of accidental discharge/brush/ etc.). I'm not sure of the exact distance the HE grenade had to travel, I believe we were told 25 meters, but don't quote me on that. I did witness, during training, a grenade impact (from the trainee beside me), about 8 yeards in front of me and bounce off through the grass (yeah, great moment Shocked

). From the sound of the shrapnel in Kerry's arm, would say he fired an HE grenade at close to the minimum arming range (25 meters, but someone with more experience could perhaps extend this a little). I fired against targets at less than 75 meters, repeatedly, and didn't witness any shrapnel passing around me. I hope this helps.

Wing Wiper · Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:34 pm Post subject:

Addition: Yes, there were high-explosive, flare, buckshot and training (green smoke) rounds. You could visually see the grenade fly to the target, like a real fast tennis ball. The sights were mounted on a "ladder" on the left side of the weapon, you dialed the sight to the range where you wanted the grenade to hit, and at 200 yards plus, the barrel was pointed WAY over the line of sight. If you're inexperienced, or forget to set the sight or estimate the range correctly, it's REAL easy to fire a short round.

JN173 · Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:34 am Post subject:

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that distance to arm is along trajectory or flight of the projectile not distance across the ground. Therefore If you didn't pay attention as Wing Wiper stated and fired the weapon in anything approaching vertical youu were in deep d** d**. Embarassed

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ASPB · Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:15 am Post subject:

I was always taught they armed after 25 meters. I can tell you though that I still have a piece of shrapnel in my stomach from a short M-79 round I fired from my boat onto a river bank 15-20 yards from the boat. No I don't have a PH for that incident. Laughing

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torque-pylit · Seaman Recruit Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 12

ASPB

I believe the grenade round armed itself after so many "revolutions" after leaving the tube. Therefore, the slower the muzzle velocity along the ground, the "closer" to the shooter would the grenade be armed such as higher muzzle angle.

Wing Wiper · Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:08 am Post subject:

I'm quite sure it was a weight on a twisted shaft that was "wound down" by inertia. It should have been fairly consistent and related to time-of-flight, therefore distance. If you shot it straight up, it still would arm after 14-28 yards (according to several web sites I found), but of course if it came back down close enough to you, it could wound you.

"The grenades also incorporate an arming system which requires a certain number of rotations (imparted by the rifled barrel) before the grenade goes "live" and can explode, the minimum distance the grenade has to travel is about 25 metres (the grenade has a wounding radius of about 5 metres)."

Look here: http://www.diddybop.demon.co.uk/blooper.htm

That's an exact copy of the one I fired, using ammunition with a gold ogive (I'm fairly sure it was the M 406 round in the picture). I'm thinking if you fired one of these at 15 meters, and it went off, you would have a good chance of needing a band-aid (and a Purple heart if your name was Kerry)

Ragnar · Seaman Recruit Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 10

Thanks for the info, guys.

So other than ASPB (and JFK, of course!), do any of you know of someone who received shrapnel from a short M-79 round?

ASPB · Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:00 am Post subject:

Yeah! I know two more guys from my crew that were hit when I screwed up with the M-79! Laughing

No Purple Hearts for them either! Laughing

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Wing Wiper · Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:07 am Post subject:

ASPB

Remind me not to get too buddy-buddy with you when you're in the mood to bust caps, okay?

Wink

ASPB · Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:09 am Post subject:

I've gotten a lot better in the last 35 Years! Laughing

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sevry · Commander Joined: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 326

armymp · Seaman Recruit Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 10

I have a sceondary MOS of 55R30, Ammunition Control Specialist. HE rounds arm between 30-32 revolutins which equals about 25 meters. I have seen people get shrapnel flying by, at the range if they shot too close or hit rocks or debri. One other thing is that a Navy Doctor such as Letson couold tell US shrapnel from a M-79 round in a heart beat..