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HardCorps · Ensign Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 65 Location: San Diego

Swanlady, On 12 Aug I printed all three Silver Star citations from the official Kerry-Edwards page to do my analysis and make my initial post: "Kerry has 3 altered Silver Star Citations", unfortunately two days later on 14 August the 1st and most important Citation was removed without explanation by the Kerry page. So now you can only find #2 and #3 from Kerry's page http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Silver_Star.pdf

EDIT UPDATE(21AUG 21:31)- The Kerry'-Edwards website "Silver Star Citation".pdf link is still missing the 1st Silver Star citation originally located with #2 and #3. The 1st citation can be found on the Kerry site separate from the other 2, under "Military Service Awards" pdf. Why did they remove #1 from the other 2 ? what's important is the contradictions of #1 and #2.

Since then, Brit Hume and others have talked about the two citations and why John Lehman signed one in '86. No one in the media has compared #1 and #2.

It can be found at :
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/jkerry/jksilverstar.pdf

To understand why the changes are significant and deliberate, you must read the Navy Awards manual excerpts (my initial post) and reference the other corroborating evidence and reports. Please feel free to ask me any questions you may have about my conclusions.
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RETIREDTOP · Seaman Recruit Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 5

Harcorps, seems your up on Navy Awards. Have acouple of questions.

1. How can a citation be re-written without the original Award Recommendation? (is this navy form 1650?)

2. Has any seen this form for kerrys silver star? (saw one for the bronze star, but not this)

I know in the army, if you request a new citation you have to have the award recommendation 638 to get it re-written

Whats up

"Essayons"

Navy_Navy_Navy · Admin Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777

I posted the first two Silver citations and the two Bronze citations here:
http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4051
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HardCorps · Ensign Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 65 Location: San Diego

EDIT UPDATE(21AUG 21:31)- The Kerry'-Edwards website "Silver Star Citation".pdf link is still missing the 1st Silver Star citation originally located with #2 and #3. The 1st citation can be found on the Kerry site separate from the other 2, under "Military Service Awards" pdf. Why did they remove #1 from the other 2 ? Who cares, what's important is the contradictions of #1 and #2. Thanks to RiflemanDD730 for the heads up.

RETIREDTOP: I usually tried to avoid entering the admin shop at all costs but was forced to learn this award stuff while submitting combat awards for my men. I wish some experienced S-1 type would explain how or why to significantly re-write an already approved and awarded medal (photograph and all). Here's what I think.

1.) Previously awarded citation certificates that do not have typos or misspellings do not need to be changed. Period. When the actual events that occurred in the citation are being re-written as to alter the facts and the original certificate, to me that’s a new award which requires a new 1650/3 (Navy/MC) or a AR-638 (for Army). In addition, the original eyewitness statements and summary of action narrative would also have to be changed and submitted. But Kerry already has the darn medal why go through so much trouble? Three times?

The only reason I can think of for Kerry to try and get rid of the original citation certificate signed and awarded in 1969, is that he needed to make disappear the words "an ENEMY SOLDIER sprang up from his position not ten feet from PCF -94 and fled." and instead insert "Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire....". This is the crux of the Silver Star, a medal for a single act of gallantry not the rest of the filler in the citation.

2) I can not find Kerry's 1650 Recommendation, Summary of Action, or Eyewitness statements anywhere for any of the 3 citations. But I know of a place in Tijuana where they can make new ones.

3) As you have pointed out, the Army requires a new recommendation submission AR-638 for a citation re-write.
_________________
__________________________
-USMC - Always Faithful
-Platoon Cmdr - Somalia
-ANGLICO FAC - Iraqi Freedom

sevry · Commander Joined: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 326

ARW3A · Seaman Recruit Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 18

Descrepencies in the 1st citation (and Rood) vs, the 2nd and 3rd (and Rood):

1. No mention in the 2nd & 3rd of demolition team 13. Rood admits this in his editorail as does his own citation. But only Rood's citation specifically mentions "THIRTEEN."

2. The 2nd & 3rd have Kerry beaching twice. The 1st is not so explicit and it reads as if it was only once. Rood,strangely, is similarly vague as to whether the first ambush had 94 beaching. His own medal citation does not say the boats beached during either ambush.

3. The 2nd & 3rd no longer have Kerry personally killing a lone enemy soldier. Rood confirms the 1st.

4. No mention in the 2nd or 3rd of coming under enemy fire while backing off the beach after ambush 2 nor during their exit down the river. Rood doesn't mention these last two events in his article but his citation does.

5. No mention in Kerry's 1st of intense enemy fire at the second ambush site. Rood's citation does as does Kerry's 2nd & 3rd but Rood's article fails to mention intense enemy gunfire.

6. The 2nd and 3rd citation adds the tidbit that Kerry ordered 23 and 84 up river to the second ambush site in response to a request from those on the ground at the first ambush site. The 1st does not nor does Rood's editorial or own citation.

Now, I have two questions:

First, How is it that an enemy soldier jumped up 10 (3+ yards) feet from the 94(1st) and started running but only made it an additional 12 yards (Rood) behind a hooch in the same time it took Kerry to spot him, jump off the boat, wade through mud and water, and them move his ungainly frame across dry land to behind the hooch? That was must have been one damn slow vietcong. Or a very scared little boy or an injured enemy soldier or both.

Second, did anyone witness Kerry killing the enemy soldier?

Dane · Lt.Jg. Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 114 Location: Chile

I spent hours last night at Kerry´s site and put together a complete timeline of events based upon his released documents. This timeline is only as accurate as the documents on his site. We know what that means...

Kerry´s Silver Star was approved on some date prior to 23MAR69. This is based upon the recommendation for the Bronze Star which states that he, on that date possessed the SS, PH1, PH2 and had a third PH pending.

Also, as someone pointed out, approved citations are like diamonds: they´re forever. The Nomination form OPNAV 1650/3 and the approved citation only are sent to CNO who provides a copy to BUPERS for the SNO service record and a copy is sent to the archives where they remain for all eternity. If someone loses a copy, they simply request a replacement. I have never heard of a revised citation although it is possible under certain circumstances. If there was a legitimate revision mades, there had to have been a request and documentation of the justification. These documents will be on file with the original citation in the archives. They should also be released to show that Kerry is not pulling some hanky-panky. The fact that they have not been released indicates to me that they do not exist.

Dane

sevry · Commander Joined: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 326

BMG Mike · Seaman Recruit Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 19

Guys,

I managed to snag all 3 copies of the Silver Star citation. Tell me how to post it and I will do so tomorrow. I don't think my email addr shows, so try bmgman_AT_swbell.net

I'm not out to get Bush elected - I'm not voting for either of them. The lesser of two evils is still evil, and there is at least 1 more choice. I do want to understand the truth.

The BIG mystery here is: Where is the Silver Star recommendation? What did the eye witness write? How did it get approved so fast?

A second mystery to me is why does the Bronze Star recommendation give an incorrect date for the action that the Silver Star was awarded for?

Where is the request and authorization for the DD215 modification of his 214? I'm a little puzzled by the 4 campaign stars for the VN Service ribbon, but I suppose his Gridley tour might account for some of them. His award orders only authorize two.

Someone in high places must have been greasing the skids for Kerry. And Bush.

BMG Mike

vickie · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 94

http://www.martyrdomoperations.com/Articles/articlesQ.html

Photocopies of all three are in this article. Number 3 is on two pages.

http://www.martyrdomoperations.com/Articles/articlesQ.html
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vickie · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 94

http://www.martyrdomoperations.com/Articles/articlesQ.html

All three are at the bottom of this article....

Herb · Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Wheres the 1650

ARW3A · Seaman Recruit Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 18

[quote="Herb"]

ARW3A · Seaman Recruit Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 18

Nevermind.

lrhachat · Seaman Recruit Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 5

I went to Kerry site and read the award, what I don't understand is the format. I checked my awards and the date signed is alway shown, and the seal of the department. Kerry's is just a piece of paper no dates, nothing. Also why isn't the order awarding him the medals on site also.

I spent 22 1/2 year in the Army mostly in admin. Once a award is awarded it is never rewriten