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Bronze Star Award Documents - Is This Stuff Legitimate?

 
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Doc Farmer
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Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:37 pm    Post subject: Bronze Star Award Documents - Is This Stuff Legitimate? Reply with quote

A guy on my board (guess who his political support goes to!) has posted the information below. I have to admit that I'm not sure how to respond to this information, and would appreciate your comments either here or on my site - http://forum.chronwatch.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8646 - to either verify or debunk this data.










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FF1047
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:20 pm    Post subject: Multiple posts have pointed out ... Reply with quote

1) Kerry more than likely wrote the after action report ...

2) The time between picking up Rassman and towing # 3 to "safety" was over an hour (if they were under small arms fire the entire time why no bullet holes in the other boats reported besides a vague reference to 3 holes in Thurlows boat)
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depotoo
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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Location: WPB FL

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could these have been doctored ( Very Happy ) Look at the ink OVER the official stamp. Just wondering...
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got the copies of the fitreps - those appear to be authentic.

What your opponent is missing is an understanding of officer fitness reports and reading beyond the surface. Just the placement of the X's in the top section of those pages are like big red flags for a promotion or other selection board. In the Navy of that time, 90% of the personnel ranked in the top 10% of the personnel. (I believe ADM Zumwalt first commented on this, but it was true as late as the early 80's, when an attempt was made to overhaul the fitrep/eval inflation problem.)

There is an excellent analysis of how to read John Kerry's fitreps here:
http://www.swiftvets.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Fitreps

I've never looked at the Bronze Star award recommendation and I'm not terribly interested in it - this is the "worksheet" which would have been prepared using the After-Action Reports written by..... (may I have the envelope, please?) ...... JOHN KERRY!!!! Wink
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NavyChief
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Joined: 12 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc Farmer,

see my post http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4541

- instigator
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ArmyWife
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Joined: 06 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are 2 different documents posted. The first one appears to be an award recommendation form for Kerry's Bronze Star. The second one appears to be an officer evaluation...his report card for the 4 months in Vietnam.

The award recommendation is what it is, but the supporting documentation is not here. Was the award based only on Kerry's version of the events? Rassmann's account? Anything else? That's why everyone wants Kerry to sign Form 180 and get ALL the records released.

As for the officer evaluation, Kerry's peers and commanders would have to tell you if that was a good one for the time. Nowadays, if you read Army ones, they are so full of positives and superlatives that everybody sounds like a hero. It takes reading a few to understand the difference between a good one and a bad one.
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tvaughan
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the best of my knowledge no one has denied the fact that Kerry was awarded a bronze star.

The official account of the bronze star action is the very thing being disputed.

(Among a great deal of things, mind you)

If the official version of events is the thing in question, then the official version of events cannot be used as evidence to the accuracy of the official version of events.

It simply doesn't make any sense.

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    tvaughan
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I repeated again. Sorry.
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