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d19thdoc PO3
Joined: 17 May 2004 Posts: 280 Location: New Jersey Shore
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:27 pm Post subject: "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" - Sound Like K |
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SEE IT AT: http://www.geocities.com/ptypes/narcissisticpd.html
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (American Psychiatric Association, 1994, pg. 661) describes Narcissistic Personality Disorder as a pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
· has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements);
· is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love;
· believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions);
· requires excessive admiration;
· has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations;
· is interpersonally exploitive, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends;
· lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others;
· is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her;
· shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes. _________________ For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide" |
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Aristotle The Hun PO1
Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 488 Location: Naples FL
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" - Sound Li |
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d19thdoc wrote: | SEE IT AT: http://www.geocities.com/ptypes/narcissisticpd.html
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (American Psychiatric Association, 1994, pg. 661) describes Narcissistic Personality Disorder as a pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
· has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements);
· is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love;
· believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions);
· requires excessive admiration;
· has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations;
· is interpersonally exploitive, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends;
· lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others;
· is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her;
· shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes. |
I have also been looking at Kerry with a diagnostician’s eye. I am a psychotherapist and have noticed Kerry’s red flags for several years. Too be honest, I seem to be able to see red flags in politicians quite easily.
Remember that what you describe is a Personality Disorder. Personality Disorders almost always come in clusters, so If John Kerry is indeed Narcissistic he is also several other things. Look at all 14 personality disorders and see which fit Kerry the best and then you have the nomenclature of the cluster. Keep in mind, this is not science, however, all science begins with speculation . . . “What if. . . “
Is a Psychiatric examination required of presidential candidates? If not, why not? _________________ Deportè Monsieur Kerrè |
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SwanLady Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 95
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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LOL funny you should post this. I mentioned it in another area where they were discussing Kerry possibly apologizing. People with NPD (most are male, btw) don't APOLOGIZE. They devalue the "object" (person) that once fed their need, but apologize?? Never! |
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Navy_Navy_Navy Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for backing me up on this - I'm no clinician of any sort, just interested in psychology and I've thought for a long time that there was more than mere "egotism" involved, that it probably went into clinical pathology.
The most recent examples:
1 - Doesn't listen to his lawyers and insists that the letters of threat go out to bookstores, television stations. Seeks in other ways to silence the Swifts - calling it a Bush smear campaign.
2 - Doesn't understand that more than a handful of vets just MIGHT be a little ticked off at being labeled misfits and drug-crazed rapists and killers. Doesn't seem to understand the concept that his actions encouraged this smearing of the reputation of the American soldier.
3 - Thinks all he has to do is say, "It wasn't you Swifties, it was all the other veterans.... " and his "Swifts problem" will go away?
Hell, just his visibly intentional moves to completely mimic the life of the REAL JFK is sick. And who builds a life around four months of duty and ignores the rest? It's like his VVAW years and his career in the Senate don't even exist.
He's showing signs of breaking - this phone call to Brant, last night, his fights with campaign staff - his persona may be more fragile than I thought it was. He's had so many years to build it that I thought it would keep him propped up a lot better than it appears to be doing.
I wonder what else might be in the cluster.... _________________ ~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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SwanLady Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 95
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" - Sound Li |
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d19thdoc wrote: | SEE IT AT: http://www.geocities.com/ptypes/narcissisticpd.html
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (American Psychiatric Association, 1994, pg. 661) describes Narcissistic Personality Disorder as a pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
· has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements);
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"I was in Vietnam and got all these medals...."
In response to a man asking him questions at a town hall meeting, Kerry INSISTED the man tell his political party affiliation and for whom he voted in the last election (not something a person HAS to reveal).
A $1,000 a shot haircut, with the hairdresser flown in? A personal servant to make his peanut butter and jelly sandwiches?
Quote: |
· is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love;
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He walked out on his first ideal love when she was in the middle of a second nervous breakdown (1st wife Julia);
He's always wanted to be President, he mentioned that before he joined the Navy, back when he was in college.
He marries wealthy heiresses only?
Quote: |
· believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions);
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His circle of friends includes only the wealthy;
Nobody, including the Swifties, is allowed to speak out against him;
Quote: |
· requires excessive admiration;
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Democratic National Convention, anyone?
Quote: |
· has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations;
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Its okay for moveon.org to slam the Pres. but not okay for the swifties to tell the truth...
He's fired (or dehired) campaign workers he once had to hire on old Clinton campaign people.
Quote: |
· is interpersonally exploitive, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends;
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1st wife
2nd wife
former ship mates
every man left in Nam while he was pursuing his career at their expense..
three Marines in a Burger King he tried to coopt into a photo op...
Quote: |
· lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others;
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-Walked out on first wife during her nervous breakdown
-Trying to get Catholic church to formally anul his first marriage, even though that makes his kids "bastards" in the eyes of the Catholic church, thus painting his first wife in a bad light in the eyes of the Catholic church;
-NO apologies to all vets he messed over in 1971
-Declared MIA/POWs dead, in spite of pleas from family members and in spite of evidence so that his cousin could get a rebuilding contract in Nam.
Quote: |
· is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her;
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ie: George W. Bush
ie: John F. Kennedy *kerry is a kennedy wannabe*
Quote: |
· shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes. |
-cussed out Secret Service man because he (kerry) fell on a ski slope
-accused the media of being a front for Bush (he did this off air, but his mic was still on) simply because they questioned him about his time in Nam
Need I go on? |
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Aristotle The Hun PO1
Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 488 Location: Naples FL
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Most Borderline Personality Disorder patients are female. Got any female politicians we could speculate about?
Good news from DNC!
Ted Kennedy has offered to drive Hillary home and John Kerry is in charge of the security detail.
John will later claim that he deserves a medal for his heroic actions even though his clothes never got wet and Hillary drowned.
How could life get any better than that?
Sam _________________ Deportè Monsieur Kerrè |
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SwanLady Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 95
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Aristotle The Hun wrote: | Most Borderline Personality Disorder patients are female. Got any female politicians we could speculate about? |
Nancy Pelosi? |
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Aristotle The Hun PO1
Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 488 Location: Naples FL
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:10 am Post subject: |
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SwanLady wrote: | Aristotle The Hun wrote: | Most Borderline Personality Disorder patients are female. Got any female politicians we could speculate about? |
Nancy Pelosi? |
Oh good, we could turn this into a long thread. I don't know how "mission oriented" this is but, here goes. Dear Nancy is clearly Obsessive Compulsive.
Do you remember how nasty Jack Nicholson was in "As Good as it gets"? He played an O/C kind of person. I suspect Nancy is really nasty to people close to her. Ask her husband. You will probably find that she is Borderline as well. Remember the cluster.
Now, go check the DSM, keep a close eye on Nancy and report your findings to another researcher. Me, I hope.
Sam _________________ Deportè Monsieur Kerrè |
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Dwight Callaway Ensign
Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 71 Location: Boise, ID.
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:04 am Post subject: |
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This thread needs to be developed and turned into a serious diagnosis of Kerry, who is mentally ill, IMO. That diagnosis should then be turned into another issue to paint Kerry with. I am serious! But I know the core Swifties will probably not be interested. However, that does not stop some other group or individual from taking this issue to the media. Hitting Kerry with such a diagnosis is the logical continuation of the charges that have come out so far. This diagnosis gives greater weight and commands more media attention for the charges on the table now.
By the way Aristotle, you can be free of that fear of a Kerry administration, if you had an effective therapeutic method. Try www.emofree.com. Probably heard of it and it may reactivate some of your "clusters". But EFT and it's cousins are the future of your profession, so you might as well get with it.
Dwight _________________ We have the Government and the Institutions that we deserve. If you want better government then YOU want to be a better citizen. |
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jalexson PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 272 Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:13 am Post subject: Re: "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" - Sound Li |
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Aristotle The Hun wrote: |
I have also been looking at Kerry with a diagnostician’s eye. I am a psychotherapist and have noticed Kerry’s red flags for several years. Too be honest, I seem to be able to see red flags in politicians quite easily.
Remember that what you describe is a Personality Disorder. Personality Disorders almost always come in clusters, so If John Kerry is indeed Narcissistic he is also several other things. Look at all 14 personality disorders and see which fit Kerry the best and then you have the nomenclature of the cluster. Keep in mind, this is not science, however, all science begins with speculation . . . “What if. . . “
Is a Psychiatric examination required of presidential candidates? If not, why not? |
I hope you will continue your observations and report them here or elsewhere. I'm a generalist rather than a specialist.
I'm especially concerned about Kerry's apparent preoccupation with the action when he personally killed a VC including making a movie reenactment that he could look at later. Those who think that killing someone somehow makes them more important often end up as criminals. As compared to those who view having to kill someone as something required by circumstances, particularly for self defense or to protect others, and prefer to forget about it afterwards. _________________ "That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
-- Mark Twain |
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jalexson PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 272 Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Dwight Callaway wrote: | This thread needs to be developed and turned into a serious diagnosis of Kerry, who is mentally ill, IMO. That diagnosis should then be turned into another issue to paint Kerry with. I am serious! But I know the core Swifties will probably not be interested. However, that does not stop some other group or individual from taking this issue to the media. Hitting Kerry with such a diagnosis is the logical continuation of the charges that have come out so far. This diagnosis gives greater weight and commands more media attention for the charges on the table now.
By the way Aristotle, you can be free of that fear of a Kerry administration, if you had an effective therapeutic method. Try www.emofree.com. Probably heard of it and it may reactivate some of your "clusters". But EFT and it's cousins are the future of your profession, so you might as well get with it.
Dwight |
Good point
I believe Watergate occurred in part because of personality problems Nixon had in dealing with the electorate. Incidentally, I also believe that Nixon could have been a great president without this flaw. Kerry seems to have Nixon's bad qualities without any of his abilities. _________________ "That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
-- Mark Twain |
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Wing Wiper Rear Admiral
Joined: 09 Aug 2004 Posts: 664 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Those who think that killing someone somehow makes them more important often end up as criminals. |
Well, he did, didn't he? |
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depotoo Seaman
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 150 Location: WPB FL
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Kinda mimiks Michael Jackson's symptoms other than the child thing.
Doesn't listen to others, above all others, etc. _________________ May God Bless us all and let truth reign. |
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ETEE Ensign
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 64 Location: New Iberia,La
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Doc, I have a Psychologist friend that could not agree with you more. She has sent me Emails over the course of the campaign and in each one tells me what Kerry will do next.............it's scarey. She can see right thru the guy.
I had an older brother that was a liar throughout his life. He would appropriate other peoples "stories" and made them his own. His "story" always had to be bigger and better than everyone elses. It cost him two wives, the respect of all of his kids and every one of his brothers. He died alone. No one wanted to be around him because you never knew when he was telling the truth.
Kerry, in some ways, seems like my older brother in that respect. The PCF Officer, a "loner" telling "stories" that are grander than everyone elses. |
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Aristotle The Hun PO1
Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 488 Location: Naples FL
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:45 am Post subject: |
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ETEE wrote: | Doc, I have a Psychologist friend that could not agree with you more. She has sent me Emails over the course of the campaign and in each one tells me what Kerry will do next.............it's scarey. She can see right thru the guy.
I had an older brother that was a liar throughout his life. He would appropriate other peoples "stories" and made them his own. His "story" always had to be bigger and better than everyone elses. It cost him two wives, the respect of all of his kids and every one of his brothers. He died alone. No one wanted to be around him because you never knew when he was telling the truth.
Kerry, in some ways, seems like my older brother in that respect. The PCF Officer, a "loner" telling "stories" that are grander than everyone elses. |
I suspect your Psychologist friend is slightly uncomfortable with such speculation, as I am. This kind of thinking can be dangerous and should be kept at the "What if" level.
However, I must admit that it is fascinating to track down the clues to Kerry's psychological profile. If others would like to play the game without bothering to get a PhD, may I suggest a book?
John M. Oldham, M.D. authored the section of the DSMIV on personality disorders. He developed a method for determining the "TYPE" of a person by matching diagnostic scores to personality types. The book contains a self-test so you can see what type you are.
New Personality Profile
John M Oldham, M.D.
ISBN 0-553-37393-5
I use it in my practice to weed out the simply neurotic from those I need to refer to a psychiatrist.
This book will give you all of the diagnostic criteria to play the game of "What is John Kerry's DSM code?"
Sam _________________ Deportè Monsieur Kerrè |
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