SwiftVets.com

[dbogdan]

Perhaps I'm missing something obvious here, but isn't it "commonly accepted by all sides" that John F'n Kerry's tour of duty in Vietnam was "very brief," or "abbreviated." Some 4 months and 12 days in Vietnam with 3 purple hearts and a silver star behind him, then he came home?

Isn't it further stipulated by all parties that an incident with the Swift Boats occurred on a Vietnamese river on March 13, 1968 the actions of Mr. Kerry being the subject of controversy?

If he only served for 4 months and 12 days, and everyone agrees that he was physically there on March 13, 1968, then how could he ever have conceivably been anywhere near Cambodia (or in Southeast Asia for that matter) by Christmas of 1968 on his "secret mission" while the President (Nixon!) was denying military incursions into Cambodia? Even if he had served six months in Vietnam, he'd still have shipped out (dubious purple hearts and silver metals grasped firmly in his slimy hands) by the middle of September - at the latest!!

Could someone help explain this to me? I don't hear anyone else bringing up this timeline issue. Perhaps there's something that might have happened that I'm not aware of... like maybe he was "near" Cambodia before he was "in" Cambodia. Perhaps it depends upon the meaning of the word "sear..." (as in "...seared - seared into my memory...")

Maybe if he changed his story to say it was really Christmas 1967 - but then he'd be creating another discrepancy - since Nixon wasn't in office until well over a year from then!!

[dbogdan]

Maybe I'm wrong, as now I'm seeing reports that the infamous March 13 incident took place in 1969... which leaves just a little bit of "wiggle room" for John Kerry. Still, it seems implausable at best that as a "newbie" in Vietnam in December of 1968, John F'n Kerry was sent on a "secret mission" to Cambodia at and/or near the border to ferry ostensible "secret agents" in and out of the forbidden territory for various and sundry nefarious practices...

Still, I'm wondering: have I gotten the dates and times wrong, or do they still not jive up correctly? I wish someone would answer this lingering question: did he "engage the enemy" in Cambodia in December of 1967 or 1968? Did the infamous "Swift Boat incident" occur in March of 1968 or March of 1969? Depending upon the answer, then he is either an absolute liar or someone who can't be sure when he served or where he served... In either case, it seems a reach (at best) that he was a hero of the war... before he was against it...

[ASPB]

Kerry was only in COSDIV 11 From 05 January 69 until 17 March 69. He had been there breifly in December of '68, From 07 Dec 69 until 13 Dec 1968, before complaining about the danger and being transferred to COSDIV 13 in Cat Lo, where he served until sent back to COSDIV 11 on 04 Jan 1969.

Christmas in Cambodia was spent 55 miles from Cambodia in Sa Dec on the Song Co Chien in the COSDIV 13 AOR. This was 24 Dec 1968, the only December Kerry spent in Vietnam. This is from his own official biography and confirmed by all of his crewmen. What he said later was a total lie. The man is a pathological liar. You just need to read a few chapters of 3 books to know this.
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On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB

[stylin19]

Sen. Kerry reported to Coastal Divsion 14 on 17 November 68.

Looks like 4 months is an ok number
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U.S.M.C. - 1969-1971
RVN- 1970-1971

[dbogdan]

[You GottaBeKidding]

dbogdan,

The dates are 12/7/68-12/13/68.

[Dane]

Then he went to COSDIV 13 on TAD. I just spent hours reviewing his FitReps. Detached from 14 on 06DEC and reported to 11 on 08DEC. There is a Continuity FitRep from 06-13DEC. The final in-country Detaching FitRep covers 14DEC68 to 26MAR69. The continuity checks. If he was TAD, he should at least have had a Concurrent FitRep from 13. I wonder if one exists? Maybe that would explain why he was sent back to 11??? Hmmm......

Dane

[Dane]

Yes, you are correct in one respect. Even if 11 were to send a PCF to Cambodia (in PBR territory), the CO would not send a boot officer that had been in-country only one month and had practically zip.point.**** navigation and combat experience in the rivers.

Dane

[Dane]

Come to think of it, there is absolutely nothing in the records released on Kerry´s site that shows he was ever with COSDIV 13. I wonder if this is a fairy tale invented to back-up his "Christmas in Cambodia" tale?

Dane

[Reg]

Two points regarding Cambodia:

1. Though the "Sa Dec" X-mas eve story has been largely discredited there is still a question of how close the boat was to the border. Kerry's War Notes say after he stops at Sa Dec and then PCF-44 continues up river. How far?

Yes I know Gardner says not very far others in PCF-44 say they were very close to the border. We need factual primary source quotes that fix PCF-44 location. For example, Kerrry describes a fire fight very near the border when he meets 2 PBRs. Which PBRs? Can't we find the OinC of the PBrs?
Did they file a spot report? Where is PCF-44 spot report?


2. When Kerry was the OinC of PCF-94 in 1969 he was at times very very close to the Cambodian border w/ SEALs. We have 12-14 Feb spot reports that establish this issue rather firmly. So we must be careful on what we say w/ regard to "near" Cambodia. We still have no evidence that Kerry went across the border in '68 or '69.

The most interesting outstanding issue on Cambodia and Spec. Ops is the recent Kerry campaign statement that "...on one occasion crossed into Cambodia at the request of members of a special operations group operating out of Ha Tien."

If someone could shed light on this Ha Tien story that would be a major breakthrough. Were Sp. Ops on Ha Tien? Were they apart of MACV SOG? Did any swift boats ferry them? Do we have after action reports from this group during early 1969?

Yes I know that none of PCF-94 crewmates support this Ha Tien story. We still need more information. Given the current environment these issues need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Update:
Fox News Sunday 8/22 w/ Chris Wallace...

WALLACE: I take it then the answer is no, you don't have a single crew member who will say he was in Cambodia, five miles inside Cambodia, on Christmas Eve 1968 or any other night.

HURLEY: On other nights, yes, they will say that. On December 24th, they will not say that.

WALLACE: Who's going to say that? Because I haven't heard a crew member who's...

HURLEY: It was the 94 boat. This issue hasn't come up. And it's the reason why it hasn't been addressed. But on Christmas Eve, he was on the 44 boat. They were near the Cambodian border. They may or may not have crossed over. On a different occasion, on the 94 boat, they were five miles deep into Cambodia. It was a month later, a month and a half later. The crew will testify to that.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is a very interesting development. I wonder if they are going to hang their hat on the 12-14 Feb mission?

[baldeagl]

If you have any questions about Kerry's timeline in Vietnam, visit my blog. I have documented everything that is proveable - with links so you don't have to take my word for it.

http://antimedia.blogspot.com/2004/08/kerrys-vietnam-timeline.html
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antimedia
USN OST-6 68-74
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/

[JROTC]

Hopefully this link helps!

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/

Exerted from the above:

Of course, all of this has been explored on numerous blogs, including here. But Muravchik adds this bombshell that has been missed thus far:

Now a new official statement from the campaign undercuts Brinkley. It offers a minimal (thus harder to impeach) claim: that Kerry "on one occasion crossed into Cambodia," on an unspecified date. But at least two of the shipmates who are supporting Kerry's campaign (and one who is not) deny their boat ever crossed the border, and their testimony on this score is corroborated by Kerry's own journal, kept while on duty. One passage reproduced in Brinkley's book says: "The banks of the [Rach Giang Thanh River] whistled by as we churned out mile after mile at full speed. On my left were occasional open fields that allowed us a clear view into Cambodia. At some points, the border was only fifty yards away and it then would meander out to several hundred or even as much as a thousand yards away, always making one wonder what lay on the other side." His curiosity was never satisfied, because this entry was from Kerry's final mission [emph mine - CE].

John Hurley and the rest of the talking heads that the Kerry campaign has sent out over the past two weeks to debunk the debunking of John Kerry's Excellent Cambodian Adventure/Bogus Journey can't spin out of that one. If he had spent time in Cambodia, he would have known exactly what lay on the other side of the banks, if indeed he ever even got that close to Cambodia in the first place. And the revelation that his later journals were actually written after his return to the States for an abortive book proposal makes this even more odd, since he had already begun his anti-war activities -- and an illegal Cambodian excursion would not only add to his radical street cred, but it would have made a book deal more likely.

[baldeagl]

Guys, you're completely missing the point. Kerry said he was ordered into Cambodia. That is proveably false. Any claims to have "wandered" across the border or been in the "murky waters near the border" are nothing but smokescreen to obscure the fact that Kerry lied about being ordered into Cambodia.

Focus guys. Focus.
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antimedia
USN OST-6 68-74
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/

[afanofosc]

Here's another Kerry Christmas reference which I don't recall having seen mentioned before:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22247-2004Jul28.html

[Reg]