SwiftVets.com

lundymicron

Hello,

New member here. I've not read the book "Unfit for Command", but I sure am glad it's out there. I served 6 years active duty in the USAF. The majority of the time under Ronald Reagan as Commander-in-Chief. A good time to be in the military. Had the fantastic good fortune of never having to see actual combat. Just trained for it a heck of a lot. Well as much as us Air Force types did anyway. Wink

4 years with the 474th Tactical Fighter Wing at Nellis AFB (desert bomb loader of F-16s) and 2 years with the 552 AGS AWACs (RADAR technican - flightline) at Tinker AFB. My most exotic TDY was a month long visit to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Very educational, especially for this female veteran. Made me appreciate the USA all the more.

So my question is, I don't recall Mr. Rassmann's former rank, so I'll call him Mister... How did Mr. Rassmann end up in the water? If boat #3? hit the mine and dumped it's crew and Rassmann was on Kerry's boat, then Kerry's boat fled for safety, how did Rassmann end up in the water? Did the "driver" of Kerry's boat take off so quickly Mr. Rassmann fell overboard??? Who was piloting Kerry's boat?

Just trying to get the picture here. Thanks!

P.S. Kerry's bizarre campaign says to me he and his "entourage" greatly underestimate the intelligence of the average American voter. Sure hope that proves to be his downfall in November.
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LewWaters · Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:49 am Post subject:

That's one of the reasons we would like for Kerry to release all of his records. How Lt. Rassman ended up in the water depends on who you listen to.

According to kerry's side, he was blown off by a second mine. However, there was no damage done to the boat and no one else was blown off the boat, unlike the PCF-3 that actually did get mined. This was countered by it went off close to Kerry's boat, but still, there was no hull damage to Kerry's boat and the only injury on Kerry's boat was a contusion ( a bruise) to his arm. He later claimed he had sharapnel in his buttocks, but there is ample evidence it was actually rice from him blowing up a cache of rice earlier in the day and not running fast enough to get away from the area.

The Washington Post did an article and graphic just this past weekend showing that it was Kerry alone that throttled up and ran when the PCF-3 was mined. To me, that makes it sound like Lt. Rassman was leisurely sitting towards the rear of the boat returning after a mission and was thrown off as Kerry throttled the boat for a hasty exit from the area, believing he was being ambushed.

Until more records actually come forth, neither side can actually be proven. We only have the eye witness accounts of the Swift vets who were there and the Naval documents to rely on, which were written off of Kerry's own after action reports.
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Clark County Conservative

lundymicron · Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:07 am Post subject: BTW - Thanks to the Swifties!

I wanted to express my appreciation for all the effort the swifties are putting into getting out an alternative view of the Democrat Presidential Candidate!

It's amazing how much traction this little, comparitively, low funded 527 is getting compared to the toxic, slanderous hate being spewed by the left leaning 527s... Truth trumps money??? Can it be??? Ever hopeful and wishing November were here already!
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"Those who forget the past are condemned to relive it." -Santayana

The bandit · Commander Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 349

Honestly, I don't think Rassmann even knows how he ended up in the water.....

And don't forget that bogus PCF-94 damage report dated 14March, Lew.
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LewWaters · Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:57 am Post subject:

Right Bandit. All he knows is he ended up in the water and it was Kerry that pulled him out. Thats one reason he gets the benefit of doubt from me, at least, for that part of his testimony.
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Clark County Conservative

RA19667585 · Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:35 am Post subject:

If there was withering fire from both banks it seems strange that with five crews of men sitting ducks in the middle of the river not one got hit by enemy fire. What about bullet holes in the boats?

Damage reports are the thing
To catch the conscience of the would be king.

Also I heard that Rassmann dived to the bottom of the river to avoid enemy fire. How could he know what was going on if he was under water? And wouldn't he be disoriented after being blown off the boat? Could debris falling after an explosion be mistaken for enemy fire?

Seems that there may be other explanations why his account being wrong other than that he is a lier.

jalexson · Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:01 am Post subject:

blue9t3 · Admiral Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 1246 Location: oregon

The best I can make out one of the boats snaged a mine , and sitting on the rear he was blown back into the water. After hitailing out of there kerrys boat came back to pluck him out of the water.
As confusing as it is,it will stay that way because thats how kerry wants it unless everyone agrees with his version?? Question

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lundymicron · Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:28 am Post subject:

blue9t3 wrote: The best I can make out one of the boats snaged a mine , and sitting on the rear he was blown back into the water. After hitailing out of there kerrys boat came back to pluck him out of the water.

Lundymicron writes:
But Rassman was on Kerry's boat to begin with, not the boat that struck the underwater mine... First blush sounds like Kerry sheepishly returned when he realized there was no further danger and picked Rassman out of the water...

It's my understanding that none of the other boats fled the scene, only Kerrys. Rassman probably thought his/Kerry's boat was hit by a mine too... no doubt a thought encouraged by a cowardly Kerry? (just a thought) though it would appear other records call into question the claim of a 2nd mine... see Lew's post above...
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"Those who forget the past are condemned to relive it." -Santayana

jalexson · Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:11 am Post subject: Re: fuzzy story

TEWSPilot · Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:41 pm Post subject: Sources for answers

The many answers to "Jim Rassman and John Kerry's Excellent Adventure" as well as several other questions have been researched and posted on this site. Take a look when you have a question and can't find the answer here.

Vietnam Special Forces Veterans Against Kerry

Some pretty powerful visuals at this site --
Scarry John Kerry
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vickie · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 94

I read somewhere that Rassman sitting at the back of the boat eating a cookie when the helmsman accelerated and threw him overboard.

There are other explanations like hitting a submerged log.
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Paul5388 · Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:54 pm Post subject:

I read a damage report, that's missing on Kerry's site now, that mentioned bent props (maybe screw) Onan generator not working, radio not working and windows blown out, but no hull damage and only maybe 3 bullet holes. Those refugees from the Alcoa plant would have had hull damage or at least some dings if a mine went off too close to it.

I have slept through some 30 degree rolls in the North Atlantic, according to the gyroscope in 5" plot, and never fell out of my rack. Our liberty launches were 40' fiberglass and we hardly ever got to tie up to a dock. Nobody ever fell overboard, even when they were drunk! I think there's something funny about the account.
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TEWSPilot · Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:56 am Post subject:

Damage to Kerry's boat was from action on previous day.

Someone needs to get through Bill O'Reilly's thick head. He keeps talking about Kerry and Rassman being the only "Primary Sources" of information as though they were the only ones on scene. Kerry cut and ran, and Rassman spent most of the time under water. Do your homework, please, Mr. O'Reilly, you are spinning out of control.

Who are the REAL Primary Sources for "Jim Rassman and John Kerry's Excellent Bronze Medal Adventure"? Swift Boat Veterans for Truth correct me if I have it wrong, but this is what I have been able to gather:

A. John Kerry -- initally on scene, now admits his boat was the only one that left the scene during the attack, returned several minutes later, pulled Jim Rassman from the water seconds before another boat was about to rescue him in sequence as it was rescuing others from PCF #3 who were in the water, jumped on the boat that was removing casualties to rear area for treatment and left scene although fully ambulatory, and was not present during 90 minute battle damage repair and towing operation. Left command of his boat with crew upon his hasty departure. Has recanted some key and previously highly emphasized sections of his account, such as "No Man Left Behind". None of the documentation supporting award of his three Purple Hearts mentions an arm injury alleged to have occurred during this action.
B. Jim Rassman -- an Awards and Decorations Officer performing a clerk's job in the field for a Special Forces unit, had to "correct" his claim that he was a member of Kerry's crew, blown or thrown off boat but has given two versions of which boat he was on but never said why he was there, possibly dazed and injured, in water, under water, in fear for his life, and has given multiple accounts of activities, some of which are conflicting, and some of which have been recanted by Kerry campaign officials. Has claimed John Kerry reached down with a bloody arm and rescued him and has claimed John Kerry jumped into the water and rescued him. Kerry crewmembers supporting his account have also given both mutually exclusive rescue descriptions.
C. Van Odell -- on scene entire time. Signed sworn affadavit describing action and after action and has invited lawsuit for libel if account is untrue.
D. Jack Chenoweth -- on scene entire time. Signed sworn affadavit describing action and after action and has invited lawsuit for libel if account is untrue.
E. Larry Thurlow -- on scene entire time. Boarded disabled PCF #3 and rendered aid to injured and stabilized boat to keep it from sinking and drowning injured unable to abandon ship. Boat would have sunk and drown injured on board had they waited for John Kerry to return. Signed sworn affadavit describing action and after action and has invited lawsuit for libel if account is untrue.
F. Versions given by Primary Sources C, D, and E have been verified by every other officer present and many others present. Signed sworn affadavits describing action and after action and have invited lawsuit for libel if account is untrue.

If you want the footnotes and sources I used to compile this list, your staff can easily find them, or you can email me. They are all available, and many are on the Special Forces site I posted earlier.
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kingfish · Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:27 am Post subject:

I've read most of the reports, etc on this,
Right now, to me, i think Rassmusen was on the starboard deck alongside the cabin, going forward, perhaps carrying ammo, cookies, etc to front tub gunner. According to reports, Kerry's craft had just cleared the fishing weir, with the bank close abeam to starboard. when the mine exploded, Kerry nailed the throttles, and turned to port, thus propelling Rassmusen a** over teakettle into the drink.
Makes sence to me! Laughing

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