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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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 Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:57 pm Post subject: Fret: Need to Kill, "Navy Records Agree" |
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Everyone,
We need to kill this idea that the Navy Records agree with Kerry. We all know the real reason why they do, but outside our immediate circle this canard is costing us badly in credibility. Worse, we need to get something new going....or media outlets will stop paying attention.
Sorry if I am fretting on this...but I'd hate to come so close and then see it fall apart.
_________________
-Polaris
Truth is Beauty |
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efuseakay
Ensign
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Even Fox is reporting the "Navy records agree with Kerry" angle...  |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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The media does not and has not ever understood the military.
The media has an almost complete and utter disdain for the military, unless some facet of it suits their purposes.
The word is getting out - bloggers and web sites like this lead the way. Talk radio and online newspapers lead the way. The facts are getting out, the sky is not falling.
The book is barely hitting the shelves... as Sean Hannity says, "Let not your heart be troubled." Alarmism isn't productive.
Do something that IS productive to get your mind off of fear.
Write short, respectful emails with one or two salient and concise points in them.
The talking heads have the attention spans of gnats, for the most part and we have to keep their "Sesame Street" depth of focus in mind. Explain what you want to explain quietly and politely.
Send them out to all the media outlets that you wish to address. Keep in mind that millions of others are doing the same things that you are.
You don't have to write a "book" fisking every article on the internet. What you don't cover, someone else will. 
Smile. It drives the Kerry people crazy.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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efuseakay
Ensign
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Perhaps a form letter stressing the points the Swifties are trying to make is in order... that way we can all send them to the news outlets? |
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FF1047
Lieutenant
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 222
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:08 pm Post subject: Actually the Navy records do not agree ... |
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For the Bronze Star incident there is no damage report that lists ANY bullet holes from the mining action ... there is supposed to be a reference to 3 bullet holes in one of the boats but that could easily be from EARLIER in the day when they came under small arms fire ...
There is a damage report for Kerry's 94 boat (may actually be the 3 boats damage report, misfiled) but even it does not list any bullet holes ...
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JJC
USNA class of 1980 |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Form letters do not get read. In fact, they can result in all mail from your email address going straight into the bit-bucket. At the least, the sysadmins can set up the incoming mail to dev/null all letters that contain the exact phrase, "_________."
Just look at this forum - the third time that you see an article posted, do your eyes not glaze over?
Short letters with concise points, personally written (and spell-checked ) are much more likely to get attention than form letters.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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Truegrit
Lieutenant
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 246
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Polaris,
SBVT is getting a very hostile reception from Wolf Blitzer of CNN. Continually he focuses on alleged ties between Bush and the SBVT campaign, with distortions, as for example today, on the link between the lawyer whose firm is advising the Bush campaign, and who apparently also has SBVT as a client.
Did he look at the factual content of Michael Moore's allegations, did he check out links between Moore and the Kerry campaign, or whether they hobnobbed on the democratic convention floor, and colluded together?
Write to Blitzer to tell him to provide fair and balanced coverage. Wolf@cnn.com -- I think that will get to him.
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Ted Harwood, Ph.D.
Enlisted, U.S. Army ('57-'60) |
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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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True Grit,
I just did email both Mr. Hume and Mr. Blitzer. I also sent the following letter to Mr. Hume and also (with appropriate name change) to Mr. Blitzer.
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Dear Mr. Hume,
Many people are reporting that the Navy records agree with Sen. Kerry implying that this is the end of the story. It is not.
In the first place the most critical Navy records do *not* agree with Kerry. Specifically the Damage Reports and Casualty Reports call Sen. Kerry a liar. There is no way that a PCF could go 5000 meters under heavy enemy fire at point blank range and *not* have severe small arms damage and casualties.
In the second place, Sen. Kerry lacks credibility because he has already changed his story at least once with regard to this incident. Remember during the Democratic National Convention and in his book Tour of Duty, he claims that while the other boats sped out of the ambush site, he stayed behind to rescue Rasmann. Now everyone agrees it couldn't have happened that way.
In the third place, it is virtually certain that Sen. Kerry wrote the spot (after action) report. It is this after action report that would be filed and repeated for all Navy records. How do I know that then LT (jg) Kerry wrote it? Well the spot report was certainly written from his point of view. However, there is a stronger indication. None of the other surviving OICs claim to have written it, and not only has Sen. Kerry not, I repeat *NOT*, challenged this, but he has also not pointed to anyone else that did.
Please look into this and see that this misunderstanding is corrected. As always, I appreciate your interest and fairness on this issue.
Sincerely,
(deleted)
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I hope I did some good.
_________________
-Polaris
Truth is Beauty |
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drjohn
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 550
Location: CT
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Wolf
Why do you have no interest in the connections between John Kerry's campaign and Democratically funded 527's?
Why is it made to appear that only Republicans fund 527's?
The total absence of equal and similar coverage of Democratic activities makes it appear as though the sole intent of the media is not to inform but to discredit any opponents of John Kerry. |
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Steve Z
Rear Admiral
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 687
Location: West Hartford CT
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:41 pm Post subject: Navy Records |
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Perhaps the reason why some "official" Navy Records agree with Kerry is because Kerry wrote the "after-action reports".
Is it possible to have a Swift Boat Veteran who knows how to read the reports (and determine their author) clearly state which reports were written by Kerry? In this way, the credibility of the "Navy records" imprimatur is removed, and then there remains a dispute between Kerry and his three defenders on one side, and 17 SBVT witnesses on the other.
Then, a clear statement that some of the after-action reports were written by Kerry could be sent to major media outlets for clarification.
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The traitor will crater! |
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wvobiwan
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:50 pm Post subject: My Letter to Wolf |
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| Truegrit wrote: | Polaris,
SBVT is getting a very hostile reception from Wolf Blitzer of CNN. Continually he focuses on alleged ties between Bush and the SBVT campaign, with distortions, as for example today, on the link between the lawyer whose firm is advising the Bush campaign, and who apparently also has SBVT as a client.
Did he look at the factual content of Michael Moore's allegations, did he check out links between Moore and the Kerry campaign, or whether they hobnobbed on the democratic convention floor, and colluded together?
Write to Blitzer to tell him to provide fair and balanced coverage. Wolf@cnn.com -- I think that will get to him. |
Below is my letter to Wolf. I used to think that Wolf was a pretty fair and balanced reporter, maybe we can 'save' him? :>)
Dear Wolf Blitzer, CNN:
Your liberal bias is showing Wolf.
Whatever credibility you had is 'swiftly' evaporating with your and your network's handling of the SwiftBoat controversy. Instead of actually looking into the sworn affidavits of the overwhelming majority of Senator Kerry's Vietnam compatriots, instead of finding out exactly WHO wrote Kerry's citations, instead of investigating the clear contradictions in Kerry's Vietnam stories over the years, you and CNN choose to shoot the messengers and take at face value official Navy documents that have been convincingly discredited. You even choose to ignore Kerry's own historical comments that contradict himself. You smear, discredit, and otherwise marginalize the Swift Boat heroes instead of doing your job - finding and reporting the news, AS IS. While CNN's reputation is, in my opinion due to their Iraq reporting and other obviously liberal 'news-managing', well beyond salvage anyway, I think yours can still be saved.
Kerry has based his campaign for President on his 'heroism' in the Vietnam war in a clear and cynical attempt to leave his anti-war betrayals behind, and trade on his questionable 'valor'. If, as Kerry clearly stated at the DNC, we are to judge his fitness for office based up on his Vietnam experience, then we NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT IT, and not just what Kerry tells you. He has already waffled on three long standing claims; Christmas in Cambodia, his 1st Purple Heart, and his accusations of 'atrocities'. Average citizens such as myself are very curious about what else he has lied about, a seasoned reporter such as yourself should be ferreting out his complete records and researching the SwiftBoat claims exhaustively and fairly. While you're at it, how about getting Theresa Heinz Kerry's financial statements and highlighting her affiliations with multiple 527 groups? How much of MoveOn's and others millions of dollars in Bush slanders came from Theresa? In this way your biased assertions about Bush's connections to the SwiftBoaters might have more balance, and therefore more impact.
If you care to have any reputation for journalistic integrity at all I suggest you resign at CNN and join a growing network like Fox - CNN is a lost cause. If you choose to stay at CNN, I recommend that you not toe the corporate 'liberal line'. It's clearly not in your best interest as a reporter - will you sacrifice your entire career to stay in Ted Turner's good graces? If he fires you, I'm sure Fox would love to have you. That'd a make a good story, and you'd be a hero yourself to most Americans.
You report all sides, I'll decide if you don't mind.
Sincerely,
Doug Hillgren
Harpers Ferry, WV
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Doug
"Proud of my Dad, 2-tour veteran of VN."
Kerry/Edwards Foreign Policy Slogan: Accept our surrender or we'll sue! |
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jataylor11
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 856
Location: Woodbridge, Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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The theme of this thread has appeared many times this is the issue against you
(1) Navy records available are only those released by Kerry
(2) MSM can't read navy reports
(3) MSM does not understand how military operates when it comes to record keeping
(4) Record keeping if boring and difficult to explain
Response:
(1) Not all Navy records are released. Kerry has refused to sign Form 180, the records released were filtered through the Kerry campaign
(2) (See NavyChiefs analysis of records ---why they prove Kerry wrote his records) Kerry wrote the records that were released ---
(3) Kerry campaign only released records that supported his position -- records that he wrote
(4) Kerry wrote the records because he was the guy who went to war with a typewritter?
Keep up the good work guys --- but you need to give the MSM a tutorial in deciphering military records --- to the civilian it just looks like aphabet soup
#3 is not repeated enough --- but that is the response that needs to be addessed |
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rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Fret: Need to Kill, "Navy Records Agree" |
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| Polaris wrote: |
We need to kill this idea that the Navy Records agree with Kerry.
We all know the real reason why they do. |
Go find the posting by NavyChief and be patient
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efuseakay
Ensign
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: | Form letters do not get read. In fact, they can result in all mail from your email address going straight into the bit-bucket. At the least, the sysadmins can set up the incoming mail to dev/null all letters that contain the exact phrase, "_________."
Just look at this forum - the third time that you see an article posted, do your eyes not glaze over?
Short letters with concise points, personally written (and spell-checked ) are much more likely to get attention than form letters. |
Point taken... perhaps a list of things to say as a starting point for those of us who intend on contacting the media then?  |
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afanofosc
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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The Navy records to which Matt Kelley (AP) refers (see the AP wire story at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5818634/) are describing the entire day's operation - which did include enemy fire earlier in the day.
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A member of the group, Larry Thurlow, said Tuesday he stood by his assertion that there was no enemy fire that day.
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Kelley mistates the assertion made by Larry Thurlow. Thurlow asserts that there was no enemy fire during the PCF 3 rescue. Never has he said that they encountered no enemy fire throughout the entire day.
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The document, part of thousands of pages of records housed at the Naval Historical Center, is one of several that say Kerry and other servicemen were shot at from the banks of the Bay Hap River on March 13, 1969.
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Kelley mischaracterizes what these "several" documents say. The bronze star recommendations and citations do say that the boats encountered enemy fire in conjunction with the mine attack on PCF 3 and its subsequent rescue. Those documents are all based on the AAR written (almost certainly) by Kerry. The document to which the AP refers does not, however, say that Kerry and other servicemen were shot at from the banks of the Bay Hap River.
Here's how Kelley presents the information from the Task Force 115 report:
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The weekly report cites the incident twice, referring to its code name of Sea Lords 358. The first reference says the boats “encountered an enemy initiated firefight with water mines and automatic weapons fire.” The second reference also mentions “an enemy initiated firefight ... with water mines and automatic weapons.”
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Indeed, during Sea Lords 358 the boats did encounter both a water mine and automatic weapons fire. The automatic weapons fire was from much earlier in the day. The plural "mines" is almost certainly due to Kerry's fraudulent AAR report.
If the Task Force 115 report had directly tied the automatic weapons fire with the specific incident of the mine attack on PCF 3 you can be sure Kelley would have directly quoted it. I'd like to know why the AP doesn't provide a copy of the entire report on the web and what Kelley dropped with his "..." edit.
John Hansen |
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