SwiftVets.com

[Wing Wiper]

Kerry's first Purple Heart story has now been reduced to: he fragged himself with an M-79 HE grenade he fired short and was caught with a piece of wire from the fragmentation charge. I think that's a pretty well-established fact.
It's stated his M-16 jammed and he grabbed the M-79 from the bottom of the boat. That sounds pretty plausible, too. Now, here's where I need some help.
Had Kerry, as a Reserve Officer, ever fired an M-79 before that night? (It's stated it was hid first combat mission). Did he have ANY experience with that weapon? Or was he a butterbar that htought he knew how it worked and just started flinging rounds out into the dark, assuming it was a line-of-sight weapon like an M-16. Anybody that's fired the weapo knows what happens if you sight down the barrel, you get a short round. I saw a trainee try that and put one into the turf about 10 yards ahead of us. Luckily it didn't arm.
So, is there a way to see Kerry's small-arms training records that prove it wasn't his first experience with that weapon? If it was, it might go a long ways in explaining what happened, and making a case that he endangered himself and his own crewmen that night.
Anybody know if the M-79 was a standard weapon that a Reserve Navy officer would be trained on in 1971, prior to assignment to Swift boats?

Thanks

[ALMOUNT]

I had to carry a M-79 for a while and I hated it.

They could have easily had one on board for any reason.

God knows why you would want a little pop gun like that when you had TWIN 50's

I can't remember, (Hell, I can't remember what I had for supper)
but an HE projectile had to make ? number of revolutions after leaving the barrel before they would detonate..
_________________
101st Airborne Div.
Vietnam 67-68


http://www.DELTARAIDERS.COM

I killed a six pack....just to watch it DIE

[roughfun]

A lot of M-79s I used had their rear sites removed and you used old fashioned "kentucky windage". With a claymore bag full of rounds you could have multible rounds in the air at the same time. If I remember right it was 15meters to arm the round so somtimes it had to be used like a morter when fighting was to close. You must be very good to do this but Ive seen it done. In our unit the squad leader carried it so very seldom where they in inexperienced hands. Semper Fi. P. S. Has any read "the Phantom Blooper"? Hard to find but any Marine From I Corps would love it.

[AMOS]

I seem to remember it was 12 revolutions before the round was armed. I wish I could remember why I remember that. It was supposed to be far enough so as not to injure the shooter. So, I don't know if I believe Old Dumbo Kerry on this one either.

[nakona]

I've used a Blooker and it's modern version, and M-203.

It's an easy enough and obvious enough weapon to operate that someone who didn't know what they were doing could easily pick one up and fire it, even if he'd never seen one before.

As has been pointed out, if a guy like that tried to sight it like a rifle, it wouldn't work the way he expected it too.
However, and this is just taking a W.A.G., I doubt that's what happened to Kerry.

I would figure he basically fired it one handed, trying to "sight by feel" and the motion of the boat caused an unexpected trajectory.

Frankly, I don't think, if that surmisal is correct, that Kerry should be blamed for being a dumb@ss, because ANYONE could make a mistake like that. However, if it'd been ME, I'd have just pulled that splinter out, splashed some alcohol or even just water on it, and stuck a bandaid on it. I for DAMNED sure would be to embarresses to put in for a P.H. for it.

I would, however, use it as an excuse to get the other guys to buy me a beer.
_________________
13F20P

[Arty Guy]

I can easily believe that Kerry fired a short round or hit a tree branch or something too close. We had an aerial observer do exactly the same thing from an airplane at tree top height. Dumb.

[AMOS]

Dumbo Kerry coulda pulled that splinter out after HE stuck it in his arm. Another "before/after" deal for him.

We called 'em Bloop guns. There, I remembered sumpin else.

[LimaCharlie]

Being inexperienced, untrained, or just plain arrogant (stupid); he may have mistaken an HE round for a flare round and shot it up in the air. We would shoot up a flare round at night before using HE's for effect.

We went to general quarters (battle stations) one night for a light moving around on top of the hill behind us in a free fire zone. We were given the go ahead to fire on it. One of our junior officers pinched his finger trying to load his weapon. We never came close to hitting the light because it was Venus rising. The junior officer applied for a Purple Heart. I don't think he got it.

One of our Navy advisors was drunk one night returning from an Army club in Qui Nhon, Viet Nam and fell off the vehicle pulling another friend whose last name was Knapp off the vehicle landing on top of him. He was in the hospital with a ruptured spleen from the accident when it was visited by dignitaries. One of them asked him why he was in the hospital and he replied he was hit by a Knapp. While still in the hospital, he received a Purple Heart with the write-up of being hit with a Knapp. He had to refuse it and explain what a Knapp was to the officer.
_________________
I was going to become an anarchist, but they had too many rules.

[Paul5388]

LC,

That advisor acount is part of the problem with Vietnam. There were a lot of people who didn't refuse a PH for the same quality injury. The end result is more than one John Kerry type individual walking around today. "Three Purple Hearts and he didn't bleed", quote from Senator Bob Dole.

I was looking through my 1st Med Cruise book (10 May 63 - 15 Dec 63) the other night and noticed there weren't any ribbons on anyone less than 1st Class PO's. Now people get ribbons for making it through boot camp!
_________________
"FLUSH THE JOHNS"
Bumper sticker seen at Shreveport VAMC

www.usslittlerock.com

[Wing Wiper]

There are some good answers here, but I was looking for information on whether or not Kerry ever received any training on the M-79. I had a small-arms training card (sorry, I can't remeber the DD form number) listing every weapon I was trained to use and the score I received on it (M-16, M-60, M-79, 12 Ga. shotgun, etc)
Kerry had one, too.
Did his list training on the M-79? A Swiftboat vet of the era would know if it was SOP to train on the M-79 before the first combat mission.
If Kerry was employing a weapon he was not trained to handle, we might go somewhere with this.

[Sgt-Keeper]

Re: the M79.. I carried it, loved it, & was pretty good with it. But enough said about it. What I have been dying to ask the SVBs is this: Did you guys have training in using hand grenades and how did a "butter bars",
JFK get his hands on one in order to throw it into a rice basket? I mean, we were pretty good at tossing those things, but hardly used them unless we had to. Were hand grenades standard issue on a PCF? No wonder he had rice frags in his butt! And a pix (Xray) would answer his 3rd PH once & all. Wouldn't even have to take it out! Let's see what's in there. What kind of fragmentation piece is it?
BTW, I saw a PBR in the water on the Fox River. What a primative & spartan piece of equipment!! I still want to see a PCF up close. Keep the faith SBVs. You have our support too.
_________________
Fix the problem, not the blame.
USMC E5 Nam vet 65-66

[LimaCharlie]

I was an enlisted man in the Navy from 1963 to 1976. They didn't document small-arms qualifications to my knowledge. I qualified on an M-1 in basic but the documentation just says I successfully completed basic training.

I don't know what training Kerry received in Swift Boat School. I went through Naval Advisor Training School that was the same for both enlisted and officers. We spent time at Camp Pendleton training on small-arms from the pistol through the .50 cal including grenades. It is funny how much further you can throw a live one compared to a practice one. We also ran around Camp Pendleton doing ambush/counter ambush training. We went through basic EOD and had to qualify with a shaped plastic explosive charge. We also went through SERE School and Vietnamese Language School. My documentation says successfully completed Naval Advisor Training, SERE School, and Vietnamese Language School.

Yes, there were grenades in the boats. We dropped a lot of concussion grenades over the side looking for swimmers around ships and waterfront bases.
_________________
I was going to become an anarchist, but they had too many rules.

[Paul5388]

LC,

I don't remember anything being issued that stated weapons qualifications. I qualified with the M1 Garand in boot camp and after that we just shot off the fantail every couple of years. Neither of my DD 214's or NGB 22 has anything about weapons qualifications on them, even though I was authorized M-16 Sharpshooter and M1911A1 Expert.

The weapons possibly included on the Swift Boats is listed here. The listing (TO&E in the Army) includes the M-79 along with grenades.

[Wing Wiper]

[Paul5388]

I don't have a copy of my Navy 201, so I don't know the answer to that one. Maybe I can find out.