SwiftVets.com

[Robert Cooper]

I recall Thurlow on one of the radio talk shows say that when the mine was detonated, all the Swift boats (except Kerry) automatically opened fire at the banks as a matter of procedure because it was typical of the enemy to wage small arm at times when swift boats are vulnerable due to distraction and slow down attempts to rescue - he further w ent on to say, that once they were convinced that there was no incoming fire, they ceased fire.

I speculate that Rassman, coming to the surface of the water - Kerry long gone - hears fire and instinctively resubmerges assuming the presence of enemy fire and continues this ducking until he doesn't hear fire anymore.

I further speculate that Kerry, quite embarassed having lost Rassman in his sudden retreat, offered an excuse to Rassman of his actions - an excuse that probably involved a claim that he had received enemy fire during the short time that the Swiftboats were firing at the banks - all Rassman knew is that he was dunked, heard fire and was glad to be out of that water.
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Know the difference between Politics and Mesmeratics - one embraces, propagates and promotes the truth, while the other manipulates it!

[Harley90]

A career military man, Lambert is no fan of Kerry's either. He doesn't like Kerry's post-Vietnam anti-war activity and doesn't plan to vote for him.


"I don't like the man himself," Lambert said, "but I think what happened happened, and he was there."


A March 1969 Navy report located by The Associated Press this week supports Lambert's version. The report twice mentions the incident and both times calls it "an enemy initiated firefight" that included automatic weapons fire and underwater mines used against a group of five boats that included Kerry's.


Kerry's Bronze Star was awarded for his pulling Special Forces Lt. Jim Rassmann, who had been blown off the boat, out of the river. Rassmann, who is retired and lives in Florence, Ore., has said repeatedly that the boats were under fire, as have other witnesses. Lambert didn't see that rescue because Kerry was farther down the river and "I was busy pulling my own boat officer (Thurlow) out of the water."


Thurlow could not be reached for comment about Lambert's recollections.


But speaking for the Swift Boat Veterans group, Van Odell, who was in the task force that day, remembers it differently from Lambert.


"When they're firing, you can hear the rounds hit the boat or buzz by your head. There was none of that," he said in a telephone interview from Katy, Texas, where he lives.


On Thursday, the group released a 30-second Internet ad disputing Kerry's contention that his swift boat crossed into Cambodia. Kerry's campaign has acknowledged that he may not have been in Cambodia on Christmas Eve of 1968, as he has previously stated, but that he does recall being on patrol along the Cambodia-Vietnam border on that date.


Lambert said the swift boats were on their way out of the river when a mine exploded under one, PCF-3.


"When they blew the 3-boat, everyone opened up on the banks with everything they had," he said. "That was the normal procedure. When they came after you, they came after you. Somebody on shore blew that mine."


"There was always a firefight" after a mine detonation, he said.





"Kerry was out in front of us, on down the river. He had to come back up the river to get to us."

Lambert retired in 1978 as a chief petty officer with 22 years of service and three tours in Vietnam. He does not remember ever meeting Kerry.

[Harley90]

I understand what Kerry did when he got back to the states in '71 as you can read the whole report on line.

Double edged sword here....

He also was co-founder of the VVA (Viet Nam Veterans of America)

Asked for input on this before.....

[baldeagl]

[baldeagl]

[Jack Mclaughlin]

When our reps. appear on talk shows their message for this incident should be simple and short and it should be the following: If we were receiving sustained fire from both banks and they couldn`t hit one of the 5 50ft. boats, nor any of the 30 crew members or special forces people they must have been the most incompetent enemy we ever faced. But they were not, they killed 58,000 of our guys. Also as I understand it a search of the banks after the incident, little evidence of spent shell casings were found.

[jataylor11]

That's an excellent analysis. Are there "Navy documents" that would detail the search of the banks after the incident?

Who could obtain such documents. Are they at the Navy Yards Archieves @ Anacostia?

[Harley90]

[No, he was co-founder of Vietnam Veterans Against the War - VVAW, not VVA.[/quote]

Actually....he was co-founder of the VVA. (Vietnam Veterans of America)

http//www.vva.com

Vietnam Veterans of America (VVA) has received an assortment of e-mails which (1) incorrectly assume VVA has endorsed Senator John Kerry for President; or (2) criticize Senator Kerry for his involvement with antiwar activities after he served in Vietnam; or (3) incorrectly assume that Bobby Muller, the President of a different organization (Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation), is the President of VVA. In response to all such e-mails, VVA says:

1. VVA's Constitution prohibits it from endorsing any candidate for any elected office. Article IV, Section 3. E. of the VVA Constitution clearly says that "[a] member, Chapter, State Council, or the Corporation [VVA] may not endorse, on behalf of the Chapter, State Council, or the Corporation, any candidate for any elected office or position."

2. John Kerry was a co-founder of VVA in 1979 and he is a life member of VVA.

3. Bobby Muller is not the President of VVA and he does not speak for VVA. Bobby Muller is the President of the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation, which is a separate corporation with a separate board of directors and with separate funding sources. Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation is not a membership organization like VVA.


do your homework

[4moreyears]

[jrsdad]

[Putt4eagle]

Can someone tell me how long it would take one of these boats at full speed to go 5000m or 3.1 miles down river and then return. It has been posted earlier in this thread that it would take 10 minutes. That seems a bit short to me but what do I know.

I think it is a relative point because it apprears to me as if JK bugged out leaving his fellow vets in what he called a hot zone. That in itself doesn't sound very 'Bronze Star worthy'. But beyond that it seems, and by his own admission, that he only return after he realized MSF Rassman was in the water. Although he tells a different story it also appears as if he only returned AFTER whatever fire there may have been coming from the banks had ended.

My gut is telling me that his return to the area was due to some type of self-preservation. I would imagine that his CO would not be too happy had he returned to base without a MSF advisor that left in his care. Especially since he bolted the area when the heat was on.

Anyway, how long would it take to get 3.1 miles down river, turn and come back?

Thanks
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Thanks to all our brave Vets.

[Jack Mclaughlin]

Back to " no empty shell casings found on banks " my notes indicate Larry Thurlow, on one of his MSNBC appearances said that a special forces search immediately after the incident found no evidence of Viet Cong or enemy presence.

[jrsdad]

[NavyChief]

[NavyChief]