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Bostonian
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 81
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 Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. French,
If you are reading this, I know this wasn't exactly the kind of combat you signed up for here--or maybe it was, knowing what the Left does these days.
Hang in there. You have friends. A lot of them. |
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Old Dude
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:00 pm Post subject: Al French |
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A few points of clarification here for those of you who haven't reviewed the links posted above.
It is not alleged that Al lied under oath or in a job application. He admits that he lied about an office affair to a former District Attorney, not to his present boss or in order to get the job from which he is now suspended. Although the Oregonian newspaper article which surfaced this item does not specifically say so, it is pretty obvious someone contacted the media with this information in order to discredit Al. When the media confronted Al with this allegation he did not lie. He admitted it. The Oregonian article does not name the other half of the affair, but implies that they know who she is by saying she was unavailable for comment. Therefore, Al could no longer protect her from the disclosure.
The Oregon State Bar will be looking for a reason to nail Al. They will try to make a case that Al lied in the Swiftboat affidavit because he did not disclose that he lacked first hand information for some of its contents. This will probably not fly. The affidavit is based upon personal information "and belief" which means that affiant either knows the information first hand OR believes it to be true. What may very well be Al's undoing is the lie he admits he told, from one lawyer (Al) to another (the DA). It won't matter that this happened years ago or why the question was raised or that the Bar has looked the other way in a dozen other similar situations that did not involve a white, male, politically conservative prosecutor. They will relish Al as prey and bask in the noteriety they achieve.
Al's bailiwick is high profile murder cases, often with the death penalty involved. This incident will now be used against him by every death penalty defense attorney that comes down the pike. Al is screwed.
Please don't miss my overall point. Al was easy pickings. Somone they can't discredit, well, they may have to be removed some other way. Are you all getting what I am saying here? Danger close. |
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nightingale97
Ensign
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 50
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Can these kind of tactics really work? People have to be taking notice of how the Dems are operating to get this man elected. It is horrifying that these same people want to be part of running our country. If it's so important to dig up old news on swifties then lets 180 it Kerry! I want to see YOUR files, especially those medical records. How do we know you are mentally fit to make the tough choices required to be CIC! I'm sticking with the guy I KNOW has it all together....President GWB!
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xleatherneck
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: Al French |
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| Old Dude wrote: |
The Oregon State Bar will be looking for a reason to nail Al. They will try to make a case that Al lied in the Swiftboat affidavit because he did not disclose that he lacked first hand information for some of its contents. This will probably not fly. The affidavit is based upon personal information "and belief" which means that affiant either knows the information first hand OR believes it to be true. |
That any affidavit is based upon the belief of the person whose statements are contained therein is self evident, even though as a matter of formallity it is expressly written as a qualifier in the first paragraph of the document as such:
"My name is Alfred J. French III. I am over the age of 21 years, and I am fully competent and able to make this affidavit. I am able to swear, as I do hereby swear, that all facts and statements contained in this affidavit are true and correct and within my personal knowledge or belief."
ALFRED FRENCH'S AFFIDAVIT
Given that, it might be technically correct to say that any given person whose statements reflect an agreement or disagreement to third party sources and heresay is free of impeachment, but it does nothing to render said affidavit as useful in any meaningful sense.
Here's the part of the affidavit that I think Mr. French has a problem with:
"Kerry has wildly exaggerated and lied about his record in Vietnam. By way of example, on two occasions Kerry obtain Purple Hearts under false pretenses from negligently self-inflicted grenade wounds in the absence of hostile fire. His first Purple Heart is the subject of widespread coverage. Thus, for example, his third Purple Heart of March 13, 1969 is attributed in his report of that day to a "hip wound" from an enemy mine while he himself admits on page 313 of Tour of Duty (by Douglas Brinkley; New York: Harper Collins, 2004) that he was wounded supposedly by a grenade placed in a rice bin by friendly troops. Kerry's commercials, for example, portraying him as a soldier with bandolier going through the jungle totally mischaracterizes his actual role in Vietnam."
I've seperated this paragraph into two parts...
1) The first part in italics which is a statement of charges or accusations
2) The second part in bold and underlined which is the qualifying evidence for the charges and accusations
The qualifying evidence in part two, in my opion, is nothing more than deductive logic based on information that is available to anyone. In other words anyone, you, me, vet, non-vet, could have authored a similar affidavit and professed a belief in it's truth. It would be nothing more however, than a common argument that anyone can make, affidavit or not.
However, if you level specific charges that a named person has "...wildly exaggerated and lied about his record in Vietnam... obtain(ed) Purple Hearts under false pretenses from negligently self-inflicted grenade wounds in the absence of hostile fire..." then I think it would be contingent upon the person making these charges to offer evidence by way of direct observation, especially if you are leveling these charges at a person who is the nominee for the highest position of power on the planet.
Formal charges, and make no mistake that's what these are, require something more than heresay to back them up...otherwise, you have a problem...which he does in my opinion.
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gee williger
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: Al French |
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| xleatherneck wrote: |
However, if you level specific charges that a named person has "...wildly exaggerated and lied about his record in Vietnam... obtain(ed) Purple Hearts under false pretenses from negligently self-inflicted grenade wounds in the absence of hostile fire..." then I think it would be contingent upon the person making these charges to offer evidence by way of direct observation, especially if you are leveling these charges at a person who is the nominee for the highest position of power on the planet.
Formal charges, and make no mistake that's what these are, require something more than heresay to back them up...otherwise, you have a problem...which he does in my opinion. |
the claim as I see it is that "Kerry has wildly exaggerated and lied about his record in Vietnam." and this is followed by the supporting examples of the two purple hearts. There is in fact, no claim made that this evidence was gathered by direct observation, but rather that the information was in part gotten on the first from "the widespread coverage" and evidence of the second is obtained through the cited authorized biography.
In addition, he provides positive testemonial evidence that atrocities were never commited in contrast to the claims made by Kerry in two television interviews.
I think French has a good case that his affidavit is truthful. On the other hand, I think it would have been prudent to stick with what he has directly observed. |
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gee williger
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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I am more interested in where the DA got the information concerning this ten year past affair.
If this information was provided by the Kerry campaign, then I really must say that they are utter hypocrites with no shame. Is it so important to impeach this man, that any peripheral 'sin' no matter how remote in time or relevance must be dredged up and exposed? Is a man's life and livelihood worth so little that they would destroy him simply for opposing them?
Destroy his fib, or sophistry--in vain!
The creature's at his dirty work again.
- Alexander Pope |
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Bostonian
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| gee williger wrote: | Is a man's life and livelihood worth so little that they would destroy him simply for opposing them?
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You don't really need an answer to that, do you? |
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Nomorelies
Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 977
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Polaris wrote: | noc,
Officially: Lying under oath (for a job application) is grounds for dismissal.
Unofficially: He supports the SBVT and Kerry and his goons want to get even. |
Wait a minute. Bill Clinton kept his job AND lied about his affair and then lied about lying about lying.....
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DenisC
Seaman
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 166
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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I do not have a lot of money, but I will be the first to donate $1,000 to any fund needed for Al French. I'm not a Swiftee, but I suspect all of us here are "Swiftee's at heart," and I have no doubt, all of you will help with whatever you can do.
Attn: SWIFTVETS, E-mail me and I will start the fund. F&%$ Kerry. Now I'm really pi$$ed.
BE IN WASHINGTON ON SEPT. 12TH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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DenisC
173rd Airborne, RVN '65-67' |
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rhv5862
PO2
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 379
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:28 pm Post subject: Al French |
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If you lived in Mass that Kerry has no shame would not be a surprise to anyone. This is more evident by his 1971 statements, his Cambodia story, the 1st P/H story, and the Rassman story where all the other boats left except his. Kerry's spinmasters have backed off on all but his 1971 statements.
Also Hannity brought up Al French on his radio show today but I don't recall hearing him use Al's name, and it was just a short clip.
Kerry and the Dems will do or say anything to ensure winning no matter who they destroy.
RHV |
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bpilch
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm with you on donations to any fund for Al French. I have already donated more money to the Swifties than any other cause. To paraphrase "we are all swiftees, now". What these guys have gone through and apparently are still going through is amazing in order to do right by all of us... Good luck, Al |
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low26
Lieutenant
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 219
Location: Chicago il
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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This is absolutely sick, We had a CinC getting B.J.'s in the oval office and using cigars in a unscrupulous manner and that was alright. And now they want to throw the book at Al. What BS he should just say he did not know what the meaning of is,is. It worked for a draft dodger why not a veteran? This really ticks me off  |
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Tom Poole
Vice Admiral
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 914
Location: America
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:46 pm Post subject: Al... |
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Does anyone know what Flipper John said about the Slick Willie/Monica scandal? They might be applicable for Al.
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| low26 wrote: | | This is absolutely sick, We had a CinC getting B.J.'s in the oval office and using cigars in a unscrupulous manner and that was alright. And now they want to throw the book at Al. What BS he should just say he did not know what the meaning of is,is. It worked for a draft dodger why not a veteran? This really ticks me off |
I'd suggest we see if we can find a website for the Clackamas County D.A and bury him in email.
And Here it is: districtattorney@co.clackamas.or.us
If some writes what they think is a good email post a copy for others to use as a model.
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Last edited by ASPB on Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rhv5862
PO2
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 379
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:54 pm Post subject: Al French |
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I believe I just read where someone tried to send the DA an e-mail and got a reply they were not accepting any more e-mails regarding Al French.
RHV |
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