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RoadKing
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 7:11 pm Post subject: "Right Wing" Veterans.....Political Hacks. |
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Hesiod, I note a recurring theme in most all of your posts......you decry the SwiftVets as "Right Wing veterans", or as "political hacks".
I was wondering where you came up with this information, so that I may look at it for myself.
Is it:
A. You know ALL of these gentlemen personally ??
B. You found all of their names listed on:[www.HillaryClinton.com/vastrightwingconspiracy/veterans/swiftboats ??
C. They must be........they are attacking your beloved John Kerry ???
D. None of the above, it is merely your OPINION.
The other thing I can't help mentioning is the fact that all of you Kerry supporters (and Kerry himself) are crowing about how his "heroic" military service is what makes him the best candidate to be the commander-in-chief of the US armed forces.
Can I safely assume, then, that you were all great supporters of President Bush #41 in 1992, and of Bob Dole in 1996 ?? Or did heroic service in the military not count in those days ??
RK
Last edited by RoadKing on Mon May 10, 2004 1:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: "Right Wing" Veterans.....Political Hacks. |
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| RoadKing wrote: |
Can I safely assume, then, that you were all great supporters of President Bush #41 in 1992, and of Bob Dole in 1996 ?? |
Surely you jest. 
Clinton finagled an ROTC slot in order to evade the draft - and then, upon finding that he had drawn a very high lottery number, he decided that he was a conscientious objector, and couldn't serve in the ROTC, after all.
This was lauded by liberals in his campaign in 1996 as having been a noble and upright stance against the war.
John Kerry himself defended Bill Clinton - he was appalled that the question of Vietnam would even come up in the campaign and thought it was despicable politics.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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eecee
Ensign
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Greenhat wrote: | | stumpy wrote: | | Quote: | | It's a notation on the records from after his return from Vietnam ("continuing service at grade of Ensign"). |
If that is from a published document, it is appropriate to provide the link. Without it, it has the same category of evidence as "hearsay". |
It's on John Kerry's site, or was. |
The notation "continued on active duty as Ensign, UNR" appears on his discharge from Officer Candidate School date December 15, 1966:
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/Record_of_Discharge.pdf
He was commissioned as an Ensign.
He was promoted to Lieutenant JG 6/16/68, and to Lieutenant 1/1/70. |
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stumpy
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Greenhat wrote: | | stumpy wrote: | | Quote: | | It's a notation on the records from after his return from Vietnam ("continuing service at grade of Ensign"). |
If that is from a published document, it is appropriate to provide the link. Without it, it has the same category of evidence as "hearsay". |
It's on John Kerry's site, or was. |
I guess some people do not know how to link.
It really is easy... you should try it some time.
[url]www.link[/url] |
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Craig
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: "Right Wing" Veterans.....Political Hacks. |
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Exactly! The Kerry-ites continue to pour fallacies and straw men into their arguments.
That's okay, the truth will get out to the people who want it no matter how much garbage the nay-sayers try to pour into this forum.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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Craig
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:24 am Post subject: Re: "Right Wing" Veterans.....Political Hacks. |
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| Navy_Navy_Navy wrote: |
Exactly! The Kerry-ites continue to pour fallacies and straw men into their arguments.
That's okay, the truth will get out to the people who want it no matter how much garbage the nay-sayers try to pour into this forum. |
Is the response you are trying to evoke that I should make some all encompassing statement lumping all Bush supporters as idiots and assign them some all the same POV that I would then make some nonsense insult at?
I could not honestly make such a statement. It would be rare that such lumping of folks would be more than just some bigoted noise made for sake of insult by someone with nothing really worthwhile to say.
"Bush-ites vs. Kerry - ites"? That is too juvenile to wish to get involved.
Thanks for the chuckle though. |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Those who understand, understand!
Those who do not understand, will never understand!
War Woof!
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"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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RoadKing
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 1:33 am Post subject: Re: "Right Wing" Veterans.....Political Hacks. |
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It is not the use of a "straw-man" to point out that Kerry absolutely is trying to use his service in Viet Nam as the main staple of his candidacy, and using it as well to attempt to bolster his claim that because of his service he would be a better CIC.
Kerry's latest ads just started showing here in Ohio. Out of thirty seconds, twenty are about his service in Viet Nam........where he spent 4 months, But not ONE SECOND about the year and a half he spent in the anti-war movement. Kind of speaks for itself.
RK |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 3:09 am Post subject: |
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His war service IS NOT "the main staple of his candidacy" and this can't be determined by one stretch of TV ads you've watched. In fact, this is a strawman.
On his website are the issues, experiences, qualifications he's running on. Issues and qualifications on the home page include:
This Mother's Day, let's work together to build a stronger America.
A Great Teacher for Every Child
Kerry Pledges to Lead with Strength during Speech to DLC
Statement from John Kerry and Teresa Heinz Kerry on Cinco de Mayo
Accomplishing the Mission in Iraq
400,000 Americans Help Kerry Reach $80 Million
Jobs First - Road to a Stronger Economy
Kerry Rallies for Women's Rights
There's nothing about Vietnam, his medals, his bravery and his sacrifices on that first page. You have to go in a few levels to find that.
For what Kerry is REALLY running on, go to ...
http://www.johnkerry.com
So let's cut out the strawman argument of "Kerry is running entirely on Vietnam" |
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95 bxl
Seaman
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | His war service IS NOT "the main staple of his candidacy" and this can't be determined by one stretch of TV ads you've watched. In fact, this is a strawman.
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Sorry... but when he talks... that's all he talks about. And again, comparatively speaking, Clark's service makes Kerry's look like a joke.
But I'm sure those of you who snivel the loudest about Kerry's "service" being attacked... all voted for Bill Clinton.... right? |
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eecee
Ensign
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 3:29 am Post subject: Re: "Right Wing" Veterans.....Political Hacks. |
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| RoadKing wrote: | Kerry's latest ads just started showing here in Ohio. Out of thirty seconds, twenty are about his service in Viet Nam........where he spent 4 months, But not ONE SECOND about the year and a half he spent in the anti-war movement. Kind of speaks for itself.
RK |
If it's this ad ("Lifetime"), it totals one minute, though maybe you saw a shortened version. Nine seconds of the ad describe his service in Vietnam, and three seconds describe him coming home "determined to end the war."
http://www.johnkerry.com/features/heartandlifetime/index.php |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 4:02 am Post subject: |
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Great ad, eecee. You're right! And protesting that godawful war truly shows Kerry to be a man of courage and integrity.
| Quote: | Sorry... but when he talks... that's all he talks about. And again, comparatively speaking, Clark's service makes Kerry's look like a joke.
But I'm sure those of you who snivel the loudest about Kerry's "service" being attacked... all voted for Bill Clinton.... right? |
Clark had great things to say about Kerry's service (so did one of the founders of Swiftvets, Grant Hibbard, Kerry's CO). I inserted the Clark opinion piece from the NYT's in another thread so let me know if you want me to repost it here.
I can't speak for the others, but I believe that during that time your commitment to this nation required you to act on your conscience and to do what you considered right. This means to fight in the war if you supported it or protest the war if you opposed it. Doing both as many vets did is even more honorable because they made even greater sacrifices.
Supporting the war and wanting others to make the sacrifices is despicable. As Colin Powell said:
| Quote: | | I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well placed and so many professional athletes (who were probably healthier than any of us) managed to wangle slots in Reserve or National Guard units. Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country |
I believe that Bill Clinton did the right thing in protesting the war because he considered it immoral (as do I). I also believe that, by ducking out of a war they supported, the majority of conservative leadership today shows themselves to be hypocrites.
I'm angry too, Colin. It shows them for what they are. |
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RoadKing
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 4:16 am Post subject: Re: "Right Wing" Veterans.....Political Hacks |
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Since several of you seem to know by heart the Kerry line, let me ask you a couple of questions that I have yet to hear from him.
Which is Sen. Kerry most proud of.......his service in Viet Nam, or his service to the VietNam Vets Against the War ?
Which is Sen. Kerry more proud of........the medals he now has hanging in his office, or the fact that he threw his "ribbons" over the wall in "protest" ?
Which is Sen. Kerry more proud of.......his "personal" stand against abortion, or his votes to protect abortions of any kind ?
Which is Sen. Kerry more proud of........his testimony in front of the Senate in 1971 talking about atrocities committed by US soldiers, or his admitted participation in "atrocities" and looking the other way as a Naval officer when witnessing others committing "atrocities" ?
RK |
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eecee
Ensign
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | I can't speak for the others, but I believe that during that time your commitment to this nation required you to act on your conscience and to do what you considered right. This means to fight in the war if you supported it or protest the war if you opposed it. Doing both as many vets did is even more honorable because they made even greater sacrifices.
Supporting the war and wanting others to make the sacrifices is despicable. As Colin Powell said:
| Quote: | | I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well placed and so many professional athletes (who were probably healthier than any of us) managed to wangle slots in Reserve or National Guard units. Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country |
I believe that Bill Clinton did the right thing in protesting the war because he considered it immoral (as do I). I also believe that, by ducking out of a war they supported, the majority of conservative leadership today shows themselves to be hypocrites.
I'm angry too, Colin. It shows them for what they are. |
Well put. |
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