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Rassmann Received a Purple Heart on March 13, 1969
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Grant K. Holcomb
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 4
Location: Larkspur, Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:13 am    Post subject: Rassmann Received a Purple Heart on March 13, 1969 Reply with quote

Below is the email I sent to numerous press and media contacts regarding Rassmann's March 13, 1969 Purple Heart.

----------------------------------------------------

To: mforsythe@bloomberg.net, ghall@bloomberg.net, Letters@newsweek.com, Ann Coulter <tom@anncoulter.org>, "Michael J. Gaynor" <GaynorMike@aol.com>, Sean Hannity <hannity@foxnews.com>, Hugh Hewitt <hhewitt@hughhewitt.com>, Laura Ingraham <suggestions@lauraingraham.com>, Michelle Malkin <malkin@comcast.net>, Bob Newman <bobnewman@clearchannel.com>, Bill O'Reilly <oreilly@foxnews.com>, Rush Limbaugh <rush@eibnet.com>, Scarborough <joe@msnbc.com>, editor@therant.us, MichNews@MichNews.com, info@frontpagemag.com, submissions@intellectualconservative.com, letters@MSNBC.com, viewerservices@msnbc.com, Today@NBC.com, Nightly@NBC.com, Dateline@NBC.com, MTP@NBC.com, Imus@msnbc.com, abramsreport@msnbc.com, norville@msnbc.com, Lesterholt@msnbc.com, msnbcinvestigates@msnbc.com, headliners@msnbc.com, mfancher@seattletimes.com, comments@foxnews.com, Viewerservices@foxnews.com, Comments@foxnews.com, Foxnewsonline@foxnews.com, newswatch@foxnews.com, cavuto@foxnews.com, FNS@foxnews.com, Feedback@foxnews.com, special@foxnews.com, atlarge@foxnews.com, Foxreport@foxnews.com, afterhours@foxnews.com, images@CNN.com, info@ap.org, cnn@cnn.com, editor@usatoday.com, john.carroll@latimes.com, letters@nytimes.com, news-tips@nytimes.com, executive-editor@nytimes.com, managing-editor@nytimes.com, national@nytimes.com, editorial@nytimes.com, oped@nytimes.com, cshaw@nypost.com, letters@nypost.com, hpost@ajc.com, pgast@ajc.com, cwarmbold@ajc.com, jwcary@suntimes.com, jbarry@suntimes.com, mcooke@suntimes.com, jbarron@suntimes.com, shuntley@suntimes.com, openforum@denverpost.com, kmacdonald@denvernewspaperagency.com, gmoore@denverpost.com

From: "Grant K. Holcomb" <marine@healthcommunications.org>

Subject: Rassmann Received a Purple Heart on March 13, 1969

Attachments: orders.pdf

Attached is proof that James Rassmann received a Purple Heart on March 13, 1969. In dozens of interviews Rassmann never mentioned that he was wounded or injured the day Senator Kerry "rescued" him. Who submitted his award recommendation?

In the following Washington Post article, Michael Dobbs was apparently unable to read the Naval message format used in Kerry's Spot report of March 13, 1969.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21239-2004Aug21.html

In the copy of the SPOT report available from the Washington Post website, the distance "5000 meters" is not very legible. It is legible on the version available from Kerry's website. This official document directly refutes Kerry's claim that he turned directly into the ambush to save Rassmann. Kerry traveled over 3 miles down river from the ambush before he discovered Rassmann had fallen out of his boat. Also, the forensics of the situation also refutes Kerry's claims regarding any significant enemy fire. The Washington Post version of the Spot report does not include the battle damage report that reflects that there were no bullet holes in Kerry's Swift boat. The battle damage report is available on the last page of the Spot report on Kerry's website. How does the enemy, firing from both side of the river, miss hitting a 50 foot long aluminum boat traveling on a 75 foot wide waterway at a speed of approximately 30 miles per hour traveling a distance of 3 miles down the river then 3 miles back up the river? The five Swift boats were stationary for well over an hour salvaging the damaged Swift boat PCF-3. Did the enemy covering both sides of a 3 mile section of the river just go away immediately after Kerry picked up Rassmann?

The following 1970 article shows Senator John Kerry's true intentions regarding his military service:

       http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=352185

A quote from this article:

"At Yale, Kerry was chairman of the Political Union and later, as Commencement speaker, urged the United States to withdraw from Vietnam and to scale down foreign military operations. And this was way back in 1966. When he approached his draft board for permission to study for a year in Paris, the draft board refused and Kerry decided to enlist in the Navy."

How is it possible that versions of Kerry's Bronze Star and Silver Star awards have John Lehman's signature? He was the Secretary of the Navy from 1981 to 1987. Why are there different versions of these awards with different wording and different signatures?

The Internet allows all Americans to have a voice and review the facts for themselves. New documents and new first hand witnesses of Kerry's actions are surfacing every day. This information is now propagating instantly across the nation. I am receiving hundreds of emails a day from angry veterans who are getting angrier with each new unaddressed revelation. Every time a news agency "discredits" a veteran without conducting a viable investigation the anger will continue to grow. Dismissing this as a Bush managed attack represents a gross miscalculation by the press and media.

If a person with a laptop and no money can find out more about how a candidate for President is misrepresenting his credentials than the multi-billion dollar media and press organizations - then its time we stopped watching them, listening to them, and reading what they have to say!


Grant K. Holcomb
Combat Veteran
Former Major, United States Marine Corps
Larkspur, CO
(303) 726-3736
marine@healthcommunications.org

--------------------------------------------------------------

Why James Rassmann Is Honestly Mistaken About John Kerry Saving His Life And Kerry Is Shamelessly Exploiting The Situation

I do not doubt the sincerity of Mr. James A. Rassmann regarding his version of events on March 13, 1969.

My own experience and review of such part of the record as is available convinces me that then First Lieutenant James A. Rassmann is right about then Lieutenant Junior Grade John F. Kerry helping him out of the water. However, Rassmann is wrong about Kerry heroically saving his life.

As a U.S. Marine Corps Officer, achieving the rank of Major, I was on active duty for over a decade.

I was an Operations Officer for 2d Battalion, 7th Marine Regiment during the first Gulf War.

I have watched first hand how men behave under enemy fire.

It is my opinion that Mr. Rassmann actually believes that he was under enemy fire and that now Presidential candidate Senator John Kerry is shamefully exploiting the situation for personal political gain.

It is also my opinion that, if a proper investigation is conducted, that Senator Kerry's "band of brothers" will reveal significantly embarrassing facts.

The right questions have not been asked and pertinent U.S. Navy and U.S. Army operational, administrative award, maintenance, and medical documents have not been reviewed, which I believe would disprove Senator Kerry's claims.

I cross-referenced the available official Naval documents and numerous statements from Senator Kerry, Mr. Rassmann, and several other officers and sailors who participated in the "Sea Lords" tactical operation on March 13, 1969.

To describe this incident I use a military "findings of fact" format presented in chronological order.

Kerry and Rassmann contradict themselves many times. However, multiple versions match on several points with other first hand accounts so I weighed those findings as being the most accurate.

The official Naval documents reviewed for these findings, to include the after action report (SPOT report), award citations, and battle damage report, were downloaded from the Kerry website. Sources are appended.

The closer the date of the statements to the date of the Democratic National Convention (DNC), the more embellished and divergent Kerry's and Rassmann's statements became as compared to older first hand observations and official Naval documents.

The Kerry Presidential campaign news release dated January 17, 2004, also appended, represents the most divergent, carefully embellished, and falsified account of the incident I was able to find. [1]

Why would Kerry's Presidential campaign staff release a statement to the American people materially different from the "official" documents available on Kerry's own website?

Here are my findings:

1.) A U.S. Naval Patrol Craft Fast (PCF), also called a "Swift" boat, is 50 feet long, nearly 14 feet wide, has a maximum speed of 32 Knots, and typically has a crew of six (1 officer and 5 enlisted). [2]

2.) On March 13, 1969, a squadron of five Swift boats participated in operation Sea Lords in Bay Hap River and Dong Cung Canal. [3]

3.) The squadron consisted of Swift boats PCF-94, PCF-51, PCF-23, PCF-43, and PCF-3. [3]

4.) Sea Lords was a "sweeping" operation conducted in conjunction with U.S. Army ground forces and other allied ground forces. [3]

5.) At the end of ground operations (approximately 5 hours), the Swift boats extracted the ground troops and began exiting the river. [3]

6.) LTJG John F. Kerry USN was the Officer-in-Charge of Swift boat PCF-94.

7.) 1LT James A. Rassmann USA was the Executive Officer of A-Detachment (A404), a 12 man Green Beret unit. Rassmann is described as the Mobile Strike Force (MSF) Advisor. [3] [4]

8.) Rassmann was a passenger on Kerry's boat and did not serve with Kerry as a crewman.

9.) As a Green Beret, Rassmann was not trained in U.S. Navy Swift boat operations.

10.) Rassmann did not command or have "his own" Swift boat.

11.) Swift boats do not operate independently and the commanders and crews of the other Swift boats in Kerry's Swift boat squadron had direct and daily first hand observation of Kerry's conduct and actions.

12.) From the morning ground operations Kerry was wounded in his left buttocks by a piece of shrapnel from a hand grenade, which he had thrown into a bin of rice. [3] [5] [10]

13.) At approximately 1445 hours (2:45 PM) the Swift boats started their exit of the river. [3]

14.) Swift boat PCF-3 was hit by a command detonated mine. The entire crew was wounded and two crew members were thrown into the water. Rassmann was not in this boat. [3] [5] [10]

15.) Only one mine explosion was observed. [10]

16.) Kerry's Swift boat was on the opposite side of the waterway from where Swift boat PCF-3 was damaged by the mine. The waterway is approximately 75 yards wide. [5] [6] [10]

17.) Kerry had his driver speed away down river from the incident site hitting something in the river. This collision resulted in Kerry hitting the bulkhead and receiving contusions on his right forearm. At that time, supposedly responding to a bow gun being jammed, Rassmann was heading to the bow and was subsequently knocked out of Kerry's boat. The prop damage reflects impact with the river bottom or other structure. [3] [5] [10]

18.) Kerry's Swift boat traveled as far as 5,000 meters (3.1 miles) down river before returning up river to retrieve Rassmann. [3]

19.) The maximum rated speed of a Swift boat is 32 Knots (36.8 MPH). Taking into account that Kerry's boat had "curled and chipped" screws, Rassmann was in the water more than 10 minutes. [2] [3]

20.) Rassmann spent a significant amount of his time in the water intentionally submerged, holding his breath in an attempt to evade what he thought was enemy fire. [5] [8] [9]

21.) Swift boats PCF-51, PCF-23, and PCF-43 remained at the scene with damaged Swift boat PCF-3. [5] [6] [10]

22.) After the mine explosion, Swift boats PCF-51, PCF-23, and PCF-43 provided suppression fire against both shorelines in anticipation of an ambush. It is a sound and proven tactical decision to go on the offense against an ambush. Turning and running only exposes your back to the enemy, presenting them with a much better target. Running from an ambush without firing also allows the enemy to easily establish accurate weapons fire. [3] [10]

23.) The Officers-in-Charge of Swift boats PCF-51, PCF-23, and PCF-3 state that they were not receiving enemy fire after the mine explosion. [5] [10]

24.) The weapons fire heard by Rassmann was from the twin .50-caliber Browning machine guns being fired by each of the Swift boats (PCF-51, PCF-23, and PCF-43), not enemy fire. Rassmann assumed that such a significant amount of weapons fire coming from the Swift boats must be in response to enemy fire. [2]

25.) The "Battle Damage" report of March 13, 1969 does not reflect any bullet damage to Kerry's Swift boat PCF-94. [3]

26.) The Officers-in-Charge of Swift boats PCF-51, PCF-23, and PCF-3 state that their respective boats did not incur any bullet damage during this incident. The lack of any bullet holes in any of the five Swift boats following the incident presents reliable forensic evidence that there was no enemy weapons fire. Also, none of the personnel involved in the incident received any bullet wounds during the incident. In a waterway less than 75 yards wide, if the enemy on both sides of the river were in covered positions with clear fields of fire, the enemy could not possibly miss hitting the 50 foot long aluminum boats. Rassmann and many others would be dead considering the length of time the boats were present supporting Swift boat PCF-3. [10]

27.) Kerry returned to the scene and picked up Rassmann at the same time Swift boat PCF-23 approached Rassmann for an attempted pick up. [10]

28.) Rassmann stated that Kerry pulled him into the boat using his good arm. [8]

29.) Swift boat PCF-43 evacuated Kerry and the injured crew and passengers of Swift boat PCF-3 to the U.S. Coast Guard vessel Spencer (WHEC-36) where Kerry was treated for the shrapnel wound to his left buttocks and the contusions on his right forearm. Kerry was released for duty immediately following his treatment. [3]

30.) Kerry's Swift boat PCF-94 towed the damaged Swift boat PCF-3 (without Kerry on board) demonstrating PCF-94's operational status after the incident. [3]

31.) Rassmann wrote the award recommendation that resulted in Kerry receiving a medal. [5] [8] [9]

32.) Rassmann recommended that Kerry receive a Silver Star. Rassmann believed then, as he does now, that he was actually under enemy fire. [8] [9]

33.) An official statement from an officer is rarely questioned. The U.S. Navy chain of command at the time of the incident acted in good faith on Rassmann's recommendation for a medal. However, the U.S. Navy issued Kerry a Bronze Star instead of a Silver Star. Kerry also received a Purple Heart. [7]

34.) Kerry turned up river after he was notified that Rassmann was missing. An act of heroism is defined as going "above and beyond the call of duty". It was Kerry's duty to pick up Rassmann when he fell out of his boat, not an act of heroism. Kerry could have been charged for dereliction of duty if he had not done so.

35.) If the U.S. Navy higher chain of command knew that there was no enemy weapons fire, the two medals would not have been awarded.

36.) If there actually was enemy fire as Kerry and Rassmann claim, it means that Kerry left a man behind in a life threatening situation. If there was no enemy fire, Kerry's and Rassmann's lives were not in jeopardy.

37.) Rassmann is mistaken about Kerry "saving his life". Swift boats PCF-51 picked up the two men in the water from Swift boat PCF-3 without incident. Swift boats PCF-51, PCF-43, and PCF-23 could each have easily picked up Rassmann.

If this incident is scrutinized, Kerry's "band of brothers" will collapse and, in turn, so will the artificial foundation of Kerry's presidential campaign.

As a child I asked my WWII U.S. Marine Corps veteran father about the scars on his body. It was not until I became a Marine that I realized they were bullet wounds. I found a box of his medals and had to use an Encyclopedia to find out what a Purple Heart, Silver Star, and Bronze Star were.

The day before my Marines crossed the line of departure to clear the minefields in Operation Desert Storm, I was ordered to report to my Battalion Commander. He was surrounded by a number of somber looking officers and clutched a red cross message - the only thing a Marine in combat fears. He notified me that my father had passed away.

My father died alone after drinking himself to death. He took to his grave what happened to him in combat. I do not talk to my little boy or my beloved wife about what I experienced in combat. Why should they be exposed to my demons? I thank God that I am alive and have a family that loves me and that I live in the greatest nation in history.

Appended is a news release from the Kerry Presidential campaign. All Americans expect these to be accurate and honest. All versions of this incident presented by Kerry and Rassmann contradict this news release.

Reading this news release left with me with a perception that Kerry's lack of integrity is accompanied by a self-regard so excessive that it empowers him to act in an unethical and manipulative fashion.

By exaggerating and misrepresenting this single event then making it the cornerstone of his Presidential campaign, candidate John F. Kerry profoundly disrespects the Office of the President, all of the citizens of our great nation, and generations of men and woman who have sacrificed their lives in the defense of our nation.

John F. Kerry is not qualified to hold any public office.


Grant K. Holcomb
Larkspur, CO
(303) 726-3736
marine@healthcommunications.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

For Immediate Release

January 17, 2004

Contact: Stephanie Cutter, (Phone# Deleted by Admin) , Laura Capps, (Phone# Deleted by Admin)
Kerry Reunites with Fellow Veteran in Iowa

Veteran says Kerry saved his life in combat; has not seen him since 1969

Des Moines, IA- Former Lieutenant John Kerry was reunited today with fellow Vietnam veteran Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life during combat.

On March 13, 1969, Rassmann, a Green Beret, was traveling down the Bay Hap river in a boat behind Kerry's when both were ambushed by exploding land mines and enemy fire coming from the shore. Kerry was hit in the arm, while a mine blew Rassmann's boat out of the water. With enemy fire coming from both sides of the river and swift boats evacuating from the area, Kerry's crew chose to turn their boat toward the ambush to save Rassmann.

"We were still under fire, and he was wounded at the time·," recalled Rassmann. And with his boat's gunners providing suppressing fire, Kerry extended his wounded arm into the water and the two lieutenants locked arms.

Kerry and Rassmann have not seen each other since 1969. Yesterday, Jim Rassmann called John Kerry's campaign headquarters and said: "I saw that John is in another tough fight, and I want to lend a hand."

Rassmann, a retired Los Angeles county sheriff who now lives in Florence, Oregon, flew to Iowa this morning to reunite with Kerry. Kerry, with fellow veterans around him, said he was moved by Rassmann's decision to come to Iowa.

"I remember the day and the moment we last met; the lingering bond between us comes from the shared experience of our service," Kerry said. "I told Jim what I tell the thousands of veterans I have met in Iowa: As president, I will never-ever-forget your service." Kerry added.

For Kerry's bravery, Rassmann recommended that he be recognized, and Kerry was awarded the Bronze Star with Combat V. The citation that followed the award read as follows:

"The man was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lt. Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain, with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard.

Lt. Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged craft and towed the boat to safety. Lt. Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the US Naval Service."

-30-

www.JohnKerry.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sources

[1] http://www.politicsus.com/011704fjk.htm

[2] http://swiftboats.net/extras/boat_specifications.htm

[3] http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/combat_reports.html

Select "Spot Report for March, 1969"

Incident summary pages 2 and 3

Battle damage summary last page

[4] http://www.greenberet.net/books/A404.htm

[5] http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21239-2004Aug21.html

[6] http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/graphics/swiftboat_082104.html

[7] http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html

Select "Military Service Awards"

Bronze Star citation last page

[8] http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/results.html?QryTxt=Rassmann

THE NATION; THE RACE TO THE WHITE HOUSE; Repaying a Big Debt to Lt. Kerry March 13, 2004

[9] http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005460

[10] http://www.rivervet.com/facts_about_john_kerry.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

Admin note:

Excellent work, but please delete Phone#'s from future messages

Thanks

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Mark
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BRAVO ZULU, Major
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producehawk
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bow. after I get done studying all this info at this site, I'll have a PHD in Kerryology.
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ETEE
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How does the enemy, firing from both side of the river, miss hitting a 50 foot long aluminum boat traveling on a 75 foot wide waterway at a speed of approximately 30 miles per hour traveling a distance of 3 miles down the river then 3 miles back up the river?

Major,
I would like to point out one discrepancy. The speed of the vessel and the time it would have taken to travel "5000 meters" and return. I have thirty five years of vessel experience and have repaired and overhauled hundreds of the civilian versions of the PCF's here in South Louisiana where the Swiftboats were built. A close friend of mine was the Rigging Superintendant at Sewart Seacraft, where the Swiftboats were constructed and tested prior to the Navy taking possession.

The following is the Navy Contract Specifications for the PCF's:

http://swiftboats.net/extras/boat_specifications.htm

Although the speed is listed as "32 knots designed maximum", it is a "pie in the sky" figure that could never be attained.

Range:
Average estimates of the most limiting conditions on a PCF, heading directly into the seas, without violent pounding, are listed below:

0'-2' seas, 0-12 knot wind, 1850 max RPM, 21.0 knot speed,

My personal knowledge of the civilian Oil Field workboat, freshly overhauled engines\gears, new props, freshly painted faired bottom, moderately loaded, in the river, 18 to 19 knots, tops. These boats are VERY susceptable to speed loss when fully loaded. They are EXTREMELY susceptable to speed loss with bent or damaged props. The vessels also suffer speed loss by being in the river. The suction of the props in relation to the shallow portion of thr river bottom uses H.P. not translated into forward motion.

Ergo, considering an ABSOLUTE top speed of 19 knots, one would have to subtract a stiff variable for the damaged props (as reported in the CASREP for PCF 94) as caused by the "mine" explosion that supposedly threw Rassmann overboard. A reduction of nine knots for badly bent and damaged props would not be unusual, in my opinion from, again, known civilian craft built from the same constructor.

5000 meters = 16,404 feet

Rassmann fell off the boat as Kerry accelerated(or hit a mine) just after PCF3 was hit with a mine. If he traveled upriver 5000 meters, he would have to return 5000 meters to pick up Rassmann, a total of:

10,000 meters = 32,808 feet

32,808 feet = 6.21 miles

Giving Kerry's boat, with damaged props from a "mine" or underwater object, a speed of 10 knots:

10 knots \ hour = 60,760 feet \ hour

It is obvious, under this scenario, that Rassmann was in the water for approximately thirty minutes, awaiting Kerry's return to pick him up. Even if Kerry's boat were in perfect condition and under optimum mechanical condition, running at 19 knots, it would have taken Kerry MORE THAN 17 MINUTES to return.




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beansoup
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:51 pm    Post subject: Rassmann Received a Purple Heart on March 13, 1969 Reply with quote

Major Grant K. Holcomb...
Bravo..Excellent post..
Also, thank you for the great list of media email addresses..They will be put to use immediately..Good luck in your welcomed efforts....
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ASPB
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, more realistically it was 500 hundred meters not 5000. Just more exaggeration.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a question being begged here that no one to the best of my knowledge has addressed.

The length of time Rassmann was in the water and his apparent unwillingness to swim approximately 65 yards to certain rescue.

Given his testimony that he shed his LBE and weapons first, and that he spent a lot of time underwater (avoiding incoming fire, allegedly), he could have made for the other stationary boats engaged in recovery operations on the other side of the canal in a matter of minutes.

I'm not sure about Green Beret Special Forces training in water operations, however, I can't imagine that swimming in hostile water conditions wasn't a part of it. "Survival swimming" is a routine training task in the Marine Corps, but that's probably not a fair comparison.

If Rassmann was under the belief that he was under fire for a length of time of 10 to 30 minutes, it would be the height of folly to stay in one place. If there WERE snipers, they'd've popped him the second or third time he came up for air if he stayed relatively stationary.

Assuming he spent the majority of his time underwater, he should have been able to make the 65 yards (just a bit over half the length of a football field) in 5 minutes, and if he was indeed afraid for his life, in much LESS time to get to safety and certain rescue.

Something is VERY bad wrong here.
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ASPB
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If Rassmann was under the belief that he was under fire for a length of time of 10 to 30 minutes, it would be the height of folly to stay in one place. If there WERE snipers, they'd've popped him the second or third time he came up for air if he stayed relatively stationary


Where do you get the 10 to 30 minutes statements. Do you have a cite? I've been studying this for 6 months and have never seen that claim.

Help!
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kmmpatriot
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ASPB wrote:
Quote:
If Rassmann was under the belief that he was under fire for a length of time of 10 to 30 minutes, it would be the height of folly to stay in one place. If there WERE snipers, they'd've popped him the second or third time he came up for air if he stayed relatively stationary


Where do you get the 10 to 30 minutes statements. Do you have a cite? I've been studying this for 6 months and have never seen that claim.

Help!


ASPB - I think that folks are getting those figures from the time it would have taken Kerry to go 5000 metres and return....at best, I think it is an assumption based on what we already assume are a flawed set of facts on record.

~Kylie
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ASPB
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And that's exactly what we should not be doing...speculating on obviouly false facts. If anyone would take the time to look at a chart they'd find that 2.5 nautical miles was impossible on that particular Rach. Kerry would have been out of the Rach and into the Song Bo De if actually went 5000 yards.

Logic through the filter of a lot of similar experience says 5000 meters is a Kerry exaggeration or maybe even nothing more that a simple typo.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 10 to 30 minutes claim is what I was having the issue with myself, I phrased my query badly.

I was picking apart the assumptions, because it was the logical thing to do. If you can deny the precedent, then the conclusion can be denied. Speculation based on the alleged facts is not evil, it's just analysis.

Since the assumptions are based on statements made by one or more of the participants, one or more of them is wrong. If Rassmann was in the water for only 5 minutes, then Kerry could NOT have been 5000 meters away. If Kerry was 5000 meters away, Rassmann could NOT have been in the water only 5 minutes. They are mutually exclusive.

As stated above, the figure for the time in the water was calculated approximately based on that forensic analysis above, and specifically based on the claim of a 5 kilometer trek up the canal. As I recall, this was Kerry's assertion. There is also some anecdotal evidence from Rassmann that he was "all alone" in the water. Kerry was out of sight. This point was made in the famous "made for TV" convention documentary shown at the DNC convention. I suppose that since the film maker did a "Michael Moore" and layered in some special effect bullet splashes where none existed, it would follow that the boat might not have been out of site around a bend (or whatever).

My POINT (or the one I was trying to make), is that any SF guy would be able to make 65 yards WITH his LBE on, AND carrying his weapons WITH his hands TIED. That's MUCH less than the requirement to be a combat diver, which, if I am not mistaken, is requisite for the SF guys.

He should have been able to make the boats in a matter of minutes. Even if he thought he was under fire, I can guess with fair certainty it would have been on the close order of 5 minutes, much likely less, since he shed his gear and weapons (which I also have a problem with, but that's just because I was trained that your weapon is just about the last thing you get rid of if you have any other choice. In any case, it's not germaine other than it means he was unrestrained by having to tote it along with him, and would have made the swim that much easier and faster)

Which raises the question:

WHY would he wait on the OTHER side of the canal. Kerry had didi'ed down the canal, and there was NO assurance that he would come back, and virtually NO assurance that he would go looking for Rassmann on the wrong side of the canal.

There was another boat making for Rassmann when he eventually WAS picked up.

My issue is with that whole 5000 meters (or even 500 meters) story. And it seems to me that one of the tenents on the BSM citation was based was a long exposure to incoming small arms and automatic weapons and mortars and rockets (depending on which version of the story you are looking at) hostile enemy fire from shore, either in distance or in time.

If it was a typo or a Kerry exaggeration, why hasn't anyone come out and SAID, "That's wrong." If it was either a typo or an exaggeration, then how much of the REST of the story are typoes or exaggerations?

It's not holding water.
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68RSVN
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Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anybody know if Rassmussen went out to the cutter with Kerry and just how long after the mine explosion did the boat make the trip?

It is my believe that the other OICs thought Kerry should have stayed on his boat as his wounds were not that serious and his leaving left the whole group just a little short handed. I got that assumption from Unfit For Command. The book leaves the impression that Kerry's fellow officers were starting to see Kerry as a problem officer.

The book also stated that Kerry's request to go home was acted on in Washington just three days later but wouldn't this action be approved by the Navy's Vietnam heaquarters or at least by the Pacific Fleet headquarters. If it had to be approved in Washington, the Navy acted on personel requests one heck of a lot faster than the Army!
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stealthy
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rassmann was a Awards and Decorations officer. Did Kerry have any medals prior to meeting him?
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markasass
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:04 am    Post subject: What's an Awards and Decorations officer? Reply with quote

stealthy wrote:
Rassmann was a Awards and Decorations officer. Did Kerry have any medals prior to meeting him?


I don't mean to sound ignorant, but what exactly is an "Awards and Decorations" officer, and what specifically are their duties? Or is this just some sort of sarcasm?
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sevry
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stealthy wrote:
Rassmann was a Awards and Decorations officer. Did Kerry have any medals prior to meeting him?


Are people agreed that he was this, at the time? Or was his duty then different on 13 MAR? I saw it suspected that Rassman wrote the recommendation for Kerry's SS, as well? Was that a typo and the poster meant Bronze Star?

The KJW seems to be another point of contention. The leftwing 'mainstream' claims to have found documents signed by KJW that could not possibly be from Kerry. Did KJW indicate Kerry? Are they mistaken?
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