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Billman
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 126
Location: Seattle, WA
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 Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:12 am Post subject: New Washington Post (Michael Dobbs) article is up |
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See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39956-2004Aug27.html
Lengthy article. O'Neill is interviewed, Kerry declined.
Dobbs earlier promised to continue pursuing this story. Could get interesting now that Doug Brinkley states there is *no* exclusivity agreement prohibiting Kerry from sharing his diaries with other reporters.
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The FBI records show that Kerry was present for a particularly contentious meeting in Kansas City, Mo., in November 1971, at which plans were discussed for the assassination or kidnapping of government officials or the takeover of the Statue of Liberty. The proposal was overwhelmingly voted down, and the files record that Kerry wanted VVAW "to stay strictly non-violent." |
"Hey!" cries the MSM. "Look! He voted the assassination of politicians DOWN! So what's your beef?" You'd think the circumstance had all the moral consequence of selecting your lunch from a McDonald's menu.
P.S. Wanna guess how many times the names "Nixon" and "Colson" were mentioned?  |
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Integrity
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 92
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:02 am Post subject: |
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How about how many times Nixon Colson and O'Neill were jointly mentioned. Was it me or did Dobbs seem positively orgasmic ? I thought this one particulary rude: According to a Colson memo, an awestruck O'Neill left the Oval Office saying "he had just been with the most magnificent man he had ever met in his life." ("Totally untrue," O'Neill says now.) Colson also quoted O'Neill as promising to "spend every waking moment campaigning for Richard Nixon."
How about the description of Kerry as Dressed in a well-cut blue suit, while describing O'Neill thusly who was wearing his only suit, a blue-and-white seersucker, with matching white socks.
No bias in this article. Nope. /sarcasm
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thegunnerswife
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:08 am Post subject: |
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Kerry declined?? No... say it isn't so....
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joecamp
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Northport, NY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:36 am Post subject: |
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There is nothing that the Kerry crowd likes more than to disparage Mr. O’Neill as a tool of Colson and the Nixon White House. They consider them to be the personification of evil (I certainly don’t) and try to make this rub off on the Swift Boat Vets. Mr. O’Neill does not need my help to defend himself but if you want to know the real story of how he came into the fray see the story in the Miami Herald:
Miami Herald
note: long URL changed to hypertext
| Quote: | Returning from Vietnam, Kerry got an early discharge to run for Congress and joined the anti-war movement. O'Neill came back to work for the Naval Reserve Officers' Training Corps at the College of Holy Cross.
Hospitalized for an injury exacerbated in Vietnam, O'Neill watched Kerry tell the Senate Foreign Relations Committee the war was foolhardy and recount stories by other veterans about how they had "raped, cut off ears, cut off heads."
O'Neill believed in the war effort, thought immediate withdrawal would abandon prisoners of war and was outraged by Kerry's war crime reports.
When the Foreign Relations Committee didn't respond to his offer to rebut Kerry, he contacted Bruce Kesler, an ex-Marine who had written a New York Times op-ed piece supporting the war.
Kesler invited him to a Washington news conference for the new Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace.
He was "a young guy like ourselves, very sweet and straight, a Midwestern sort of guy ... ," Kesler recalls. "He had one suit, which was going out of style even then, a blue-and-white seersucker. And he wore white socks."
That day, O'Neill gave a speech that drew notice from the Nixon administration, alarmed by Kerry's increasing star power.
Kerry "was very articulate, a credible leader of the opposition. He forced us to create a counterfoil," Nixon aide Chuck Colson once said, reported Joe Klein in The New Yorker. "We found a vet named John O'Neill and formed a group called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace. We had O'Neill meet the president, and we did everything we could do to boost his group."
Kesler and O'Neill deny the White House instigated their effort. Kesler says Nixon might have exploited his group but didn't create or fund it. |
“Don’t let the bastards get you down.”
MG Samuel S. Koster, upon being relieved as Superintendent of the US Military Academy as the fall guy for Mai Lia.
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jrsdad
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:04 am Post subject: |
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The bias is clear in this article.
One thing that caught my eye because I had spent some time with the Colson-Nixon-O'Neill transcripts.
Dobbs uses a quote out of context to put down Colson and the whole sinister anti-Kerry cabal:
| Quote: | | "He was a Navy lieutenant, j.g., on a gunboat, and he used, uh, to run his gunboat up and shoot at, uh, shoot babies out of women's arms," replied Haldeman, fancifully embroidering Kerry's testimony of the previous day. |
Nixon's response puts a more human face on the exchange, a more reasonable interpretation:
| Quote: | | President: Oh, stop that. People in the Navy don't do things (like that). That's not what service in Vietnam, as you well know, Henry, [unintelligible]. |
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jrsdad
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:14 am Post subject: |
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I just read this caption in the article and flipped:
| Quote: | | Vietnam War critic John F. Kerry, right, appears with Dick Cavett in 1971 on the TV show on which he and Nixon supporter John E. O'Neill debated the conflict. (C-span) |
Who came up with this caption? One of the uncomfortable things about O'Neill's meeting with Nixon was that he told the President he had voted for Humphrey, after which he said the room got chilly for a while... |
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kmudd
Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 825
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| The press won't mention that everything Nixon did that they claim to hate him for was done by Johnson and Kennedy too. And even worse. They both spied on their opposition and stole elections. And it wasn't Nixon that got us in the Vietnam War either. |
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integritycounts
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 667
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 10:25 am Post subject: |
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As far as Mainstream Media....I thought the article was about as even handed as your are going to get.
Notice that he identifies O'Neill as a Democrat. I think Dobbs is much more even handed than Matthews, Boston Globe, etc etc etc.
Dobbs has said the wants to see the journals....now that Brinkley says there is no issue...I think he will try to get them again.
This particular article is pretty much historical perspective. More like a Backgrounder for the reader....for his next article.
The article speaks to O'Neill being discouraged about what he was doing....and the meeting with Nixon was to keep him doing what he was ALREADY doing. |
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Dimsdale
Captain
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 527
Location: Massachusetts: the belly of the beast
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "There is nothing that the Kerry crowd likes more than to disparage Mr. O’Neill as a tool of Colson and the Nixon White House. They consider them to be the personification of evil (I certainly don’t) and try to make this rub off on the Swift Boat Vets." |
O'Neill was a natural to use to oppose Kerry, both then and now. The Nixon administration needes someone with analagous experience, and in this case, superior experience, in the same theatre of war. O'Neill differed from Kerry back then in that he was clean cut, well spoken, and truthful.
Well, today, Kerry has Cristophe and sugarmomma's money to make him look good, but he is still a wooden figure, and he has even less truth on his side today than he did in the seventies.
Add to that a Senate career filled with votes designed to pull America's teeth in the world, and you have a rather demonic character, whose cumulative crimes are far in excess of anything Nixon was accused of doing.
Seriously, a bungled burglary for political reasons, or an organized campaign of lies designed to smear our Vietnam vets (yesterday and today) and participation in anarchist groups like the VVAW, sneaking around doing illegal and unauthorized negotiations with the communist Viet Cong, and effectively giving aid and comfort to the enemy?
Which do you think was more criminal? In comparison, if there is anyone that could be "the personification of evil," Kerry is far out in front.
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producehawk
PO1
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 463
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Once again, what else is the press lying to us about. Iraq, anyone? |
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Nomorelies
Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 977
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Re Michael Dobbs: Generally very slanted, biased and tacky when he described the attire of both participants in the Dick Cavett debate:
"O'Neill wearing his only suit, blue seersucker with matching white socks," and "Kerry with his monogrammed sweaters and Gucci shoes." Kinda like "Me Tonto, you Lone Ranger." It is said that clothes make the man. In this case, this remark was culturally discriminating coming from a group that places a higher value on clothing than character.
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ccr
Commander
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Does Dobbs have a bias? Absolutely. We all do.
However, even though his bias and perspective shows through, he is making a very professional effort to be fair. He has done far more than 99% in the MSM to provide both sides.
Here is the problem that the typical, lefty MSM reporter has: the truth is so outrageous, they can't believe it is possible.
Look at it from their perspective....
A major party candidate (who they support) is accused of fabricating significant elements of their military resume and of having given aid and comfort to the enemy during time of war.
Persistance will be the key to victory. We do have some facts on our side that have not been challenged. I hope that we can focus on those as much as possible.
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Wolfgang
Ensign
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ccr wrote: | | However, even though his bias and perspective shows through, he is making a very professional effort to be fair. He has done far more than 99% in the MSM to provide both sides. |
Quite right. |
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USWORHOCKEY
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 94
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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They can only lie if you let them. Soldiers win wars...They can say whatever they want but we all have stories and memories that the MSM can Never minimalize or downplay. We all can agree that war sucks, but that never gives you the right to diminish and tarnish all the good we have done and will do. John Kerry is a deserter and a war criminal, not exactly CIC material!!!He is often forgetting WE ARE AT WAR!!!My friends are in danger every day, especially now that he gives the enemy a timeline of a pullout if he wins. Sound familiar???
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