SwiftVets.com

[emis]

Admin Note: Quota for Kerry Talking Points Exceeded.

Swiftboat crewman says Kerry's boat was under fire

JOSEPH B. FRAZIER
Associated Press

PORTLAND, Ore. - A swiftboat crewman decorated in the 1969 Vietnam incident
where John Kerry won a Bronze Star says not only did they come under enemy
fire but also that his own boat commander, who has challenged the official
account, was too distracted to notice the gunfire.

Retired Chief Petty Officer Robert E. Lambert, of Central Point, Ore., got a
Bronze Star for pulling his boat commander - Lt. Larry Thurlow - out of the
Bay Hap River on March 13, 1969. Thurlow had jumped onto another swiftboat
to aid sailors wounded by a mine explosion but fell off when the
out-of-control boat ran aground.

Thurlow, of Bogue, Kan., who has been prominent among a group of veterans
challenging the Democratic presidential candidate's record, has said there
was no enemy fire during the incident. Lambert, however, supports the Navy
account that says all five swiftboats in the task force "came under small
arms and automatic weapon fire from the river banks" when the mine
detonated.

"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire," Lambert said
in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.

"Thurlow was far too distracted with rescue efforts to even realize he was
under fire. He was concentrating on trying to save lives."

The anti-Kerry group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, has been running
television ads challenging the Navy account of the boats being under fire.
Kerry has condemned the ads as a Republican smear campaign.

A career military man, Lambert is no fan of Kerry's either. He doesn't like
Kerry's post-Vietnam anti-war activity and doesn't plan to vote for him.

"I don't like the man himself," Lambert said, "but I think what happened
happened, and he was there."

A March 1969 Navy report located by The Associated Press this week supports
Lambert's version. The report twice mentions the incident and both times
calls it "an enemy initiated firefight" that included automatic weapons fire
and underwater mines used against a group of five boats that included
Kerry's.

Kerry's Bronze Star was awarded for his pulling Special Forces Lt. Jim
Rassmann, who had been blown off the boat, out of the river. Rassmann, who
is retired and lives in Florence, Ore., has said repeatedly that the boats
were under fire, as have other witnesses. Lambert didn't see that rescue
because Kerry was farther down the river and "I was busy pulling my own boat
officer (Thurlow) out of the water."

Thurlow could not be reached for comment about Lambert's recollections.

But speaking for the Swift Boat Veterans group, Van Odell, who was in the
task force that day, remembers it differently from Lambert.

"When they're firing, you can hear the rounds hit the boat or buzz by your
head. There was none of that," he said in a telephone interview from Katy,
Texas, where he lives.

On Thursday, the group released a 30-second Internet ad disputing Kerry's
contention that his swiftboat crossed into Cambodia. Kerry's campaign has
acknowledged that he may not have been in Cambodia on Christmas Eve of 1968,
as he has previously stated, but that he does recall being on patrol along
the Cambodia-Vietnam border on that date.

Lambert said the swiftboats were on their way out of the river when a mine
exploded under one, PCF-3.

"When they blew the 3-boat, everyone opened up on the banks with everything
they had," he said. "That was the normal procedure. When they came after
you, they came after you. Somebody on shore blew that mine."

"There was always a firefight" after a mine detonation, he said.

"Kerry was out in front of us, on down the river. He had to come back up the
river to get to us."

Lambert retired in 1978 as a chief petty officer with 22 years of service
and three tours in Vietnam. He does not remember ever meeting Kerry.

[baldeagl]

No, he's not a liar. If you read what he said, he said that he "expected" enemy fire any time there was a mine incident. He has said he "thought" there was enemy fire, he "believed" there was enemy fire and he had "the impression" there was enemy fire.

He was in the pilot house, steering PCF-51 when PCF-3 went airborne just twenty yards in front of him. What do you think his focus was on? His tub gunner, who was sitting probably 8 feet above him and focused on finding the enemy and killing them says, "There was no enemy fire." He, standing in the pilot house and steering the boat and trying to keep from hitting the 3 boat says, "I thought, I believed, I had the impression" there was enemy fire.

You be the judge. Who was in a better position to know if there was enemy fire or not?
_________________
antimedia
USN OST-6 68-74
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/

[BrianC]

I don't think it's a matter of some of these guys intentionally lying - but realize that 35 years have passed.

But when you have Kerry saying things like "seared - SEARED - into my memory" (about his 'Christmas in Cambodia' tale), then it's most certainly intentionally lying.

And note, too, how fast the media have moved off 'Christmas in Cambodia' when the Kerry Kampaign acknowledged that it "might have been" in January or later. (That makes it OK, I guess to claim it was "Nixon's war", right? Ha!)

[Integrity]

"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire," is not
Swiftboat crewman says Kerry's boat was under fire as the headline suggests.

There are so many holes in this story you'd think some of them might have hit at least one of the Swift Boats that was a sitting duck for an hour and a half. No one disputes there was gunfire and no one disputes Kerry picked Rassman out of the water. The dispute is whether there was still any enemy fire at the time Kerry came back for Rassman and pulled him out of the water.

What's unraveling is Kerry's campaign.
_________________
"What our enemies have begun, we will finish,"
- President George W. Bush

[BC]

[Integrity]

The VC were obviously extremely poor marksman or had defective weapons or missed on purpose or ???
_________________
"What our enemies have begun, we will finish,"
- President George W. Bush

[drjohn]

Is there any way someone can contact lambert and put the question directly to him?

Was there enemy fire at the time Rassman was retrieved?

[GoophyDog]

Despite all the retoric, despite all the embelishments one thing has spoke volumes on this one incident.

One man jumped into a burning, sinking boat to save his comrades. That one man gave his all to rescue the crewmen and salvage the boat and that one man received a Bronze Star.

Mr. Thurlow you are aces in my book.
_________________
Why ask? Because it needs asking.

[jataylor11]

How many men received Bronze Stars that day?

I count three so far
(1) Kerry for pulling Rassman out of the water
(2) Lambert for pulling Thurlow out of the water, and
(3) Thurlow for jumping into the 3 boat to rescue the crew

If there was no enemy fire then, both Kerry and Lambert received Bronze stars for pulling guys out of the water

I have heard Thurlow interviews where he said he thought his Bronze Star was for the heroics of jumping into the 3 boat as it was spinning around in the river full throttle in order to rescue the crew. He never thought his medal was based upon enemy fire.

So were there any other Bronze Stars that day?

[And hey can I get one for pulling my brother back into the ski boat after I knocked him overboard???? -- I apologize that was nasty]

[carpro]

[quote="emis
"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire," Lambert said
in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.

[/quote]

Bottom line...Lambert doesn't really know whether they were under fire or not.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

[beansoup]

~~~"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire," Lambert said
in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.~~~

How can AP verify who they were talking to on the phone..Lambert, [I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire,"] is not sure about the fire..Other eye witnesses, say it was suppression fire...
_________________
"John (F) Kerry = "Talk the Talk"
"George W.Bush = "Walk the Talk"

"Swiftvet Donation site"
http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/index.php

[rhv5862]

Like GoophyDog says "one man jumped onto another boat" that was Thurlow.
But one man also left and had to come back. That was Kerry.
If I had a choice I would follow Lt. Thurlow.

RHV